dabuddha
Lifer
- Apr 10, 2000
- 19,579
- 17
- 81
Stick to Call of Duty or whatever other fantasy crap you're playing. Justified shooting, plain and simple. The way I see it, the guy basically committed suicide.
Broheim
Diamond Member
- Feb 17, 2011
- 4,592
- 2
- 81
yeah it's improved and rechambered for 7.62x51 but overall it's still the same gun, we've had them for 50 years and they're still spitting out beans like it's 1945.
find a safe spot to shoot someone... keep in mind you don't even have to hit a major artery or vein to nick it and you have to take organs into account.
even if your hand wasn't shaking, your adrenalin pumping and you had all the time in the world to aim you wouldn't be able to "shoot someone safely" in a way that would stop them.
I see it in movies all the time though..
The first burst of shots was debatable but I would probably give the cops the benefit of the doubt. The second burst was completely uncalled for.
Hitting a certain spot (such as a bone in the leg) in a moving piece of paper while joking it up with your friends is rather difficult and the movement is a steady speed and only left-right. A "trained professional" attempting to shoot a real live person who is lunging with a big ass hammer at another person (that would be moving rather quickly all of a sudden) in the leg usually results in one of the following: A. miss, round goes wherever the hell it feels like possibly into an innocent person and bad guy cracks your partners skull with big ass hammer in which you are then forced to kill him as he comes after you. B. Hit but don't cause enough damage to actually stop him from cracking your partners skull open with big ass hammer. C. Hit perfectly (probably under 5% likely to happen in the real world) and completely remove the use of that leg, bad guy can still fall forward and swing big ass hammer down cracking your partners skull but he can't get up to attack the shooting officer. Bad guy lives with a limp, shooting officer goes to his buddies funeral whose wife and kids will surely understand why he chose to risk (in this case fatally) their husbands/fathers life to save the guy that killed him.
This isn't a video game. People, and this goes at least double for specific limbs on people, move very fast in tense situations. I would be very impressed if the officer hit center mass (any math nerds here that can tell us how much more area "center mass" has than your leg?) AND it doesn't move nearly as fast as legs, arms, head etc... with all of the shots he fired. I guarantee that if it was you who was about to get his head knocked off with a sledge hammer and the cop could either fire in a way that is very likely to stop him from killing you or a way that is very unlikely to stop him that you would pick the "very likely" way all day long.
Non fatal measures were exhausted when the guy lunged at the cop intending to use deadly force. Period.
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
- 36,413
- 616
- 126
i got to fire the Mg3 while stationed in Germany and i was beyond impressed. i was a M-60 gunner went to the 2 week M-60 machine gun school, I lived with that weapon knew it inside and out.
It is named the PIG for a reason. when i got my hands on the MG3 for a couple of hours all i could say was why in the fuck does the US not have a clone of this beautiful simplistic weapon. even the procure for barrel changes was genius.
After watching the video a few times I don't think the first set of shots are debatable at all. I was sort of thinking the same thing about the 2nd set but in heat of the moment I can understand how it would happen and what he might have been thinking.
If swinging a sledge hammer at someones head can be done with no expectation of killing them (I assume because they could potentially survive) than neither is shooting someone in the chest. I personally know someone who was shot with a .45 in the chest and survived.
You have never shot a gun before have you?
I did say I would give the police the benefit of the doubt on the first burst. Regarding the second burst I can understand it as well but it's the officers job not to react improperly in the heat of the moment. If it was a civilian self defense situation and the shooter reacted that way it would be more understandable somewhat different.
I'm not sure what the appropriate penalty would be for the cop for the second burst given that the first was probably justified.
schneiderguy
Lifer
- Jun 26, 2006
- 10,769
- 52
- 91
The guy threatened police officers that had guns drawn. What the fuck did he expect the outcome of that situation to be?
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes :whiste:
He had deadly weapon and attempted deadly force.
Deadly force justified fully. This is a perfect case of a good shoot. Heck, it should be a training video of exactly what to do.
sactoking
Diamond Member
- Sep 24, 2007
- 7,525
- 2,726
- 136
Have you ever seen those videos of police dogs being trained? There's a reason why the guys being subdued wear tons of padding: even well trained dogs cause damage to the people they're forcibly subduing. If he just walked out the door and was set upon by the dog then the PD would be getting sued for excessive force and whatnot.
By the time it got to the point that non-lethal force was warranted it wasn't safe to send in the dog. You have to remember that the police dogs are officers and family to the handlers. You send in a dog in a situation like that and you run the risk of the perp pickaxing it and killing it.
Aside from things like bomb search, drug search, etc police dogs are usually used as a deterrent, community outreach, and to subdue a fleeing perp, not one brandishing a weapon. They don't exist to be sacrificed like wave after wave of Zap Branigan's troops. Real life perps won't shut down after reaching their pre-programmed kill limit.
they probably could have just subdued him, but why risk injury or possible death of the officers over this guy? prefer him not to die, don't have much issue with the course of action.
Not trying to argue.
However at the time they probably have very little information on what exactly this dude is packing besides the metal pipe bender/axe pick, etc they can see.
Pretty sure no one wants to take the chance that when they move to tackle this dude (who has just shrugged off a tazer) that he then drops his 2-handed weapon pulls out a hidden knife and starts stabbing like no tomorrow or worse pulls out a hidden firearm, etc.
Ns1
No Lifer
- Jun 17, 2001
- 55,413
- 1,570
- 126
Actually it's under-reaction. Every officer is trained to fire three...two center mass, follow to the head. This happens in a second or less, so there is no stopping it. Most usually fire more than that due to adrenaline. It's amazing that so few rounds were fired overall.
Once you start pulling the trigger you continue to fire your 3 round groups until the target is completely neutralized. If you wait for a reaction from them you risk someone being injured or killed. There is no magic number of rounds that stops an attack. Many people have been shot upwards of a dozen times and continued to be an effective attacker. You fire until the threat is absolutely neutralized.
I'm among the first to jump a cops ass when they exceed their authority. I have called for lethal resistance against officer abuses on numerous occasions. This isn't one of those times. While I don't know the entire backstory to make a judgement as to if it should have gone this far, once it had they reacted perfectly fine. In fact, if anything they were hesitant and under-responsive.
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,819
- 1,126
- 126
Total agreement. People will say too many shots now... not sure that even matters. We can't see the guy completely behind the car, but he was still up and apparently there was reason enough for more than just the first 5 shots and I'm OK with that.
I'd hate to be the cop that has to tell the wife of the officer with a pickaxe to the brain that I wished I had taken the shot.
As for the you should have winged him crowd... perhaps the first 5 shots fired were all non lethal and the guy continued to swing/reach for his weapon/s which imo would justify a fucking head shot at that point. You lose all rights to a fair hanging once the first bullet hits you and you continue the behavior that just got you shot.
Last edited:
Kadarin
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2001
- 44,303
- 15
- 81
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