Originally posted by: BBond
PS That and having blind followers ready to ignore the facts and do their bidding.
Pretty bold statement from a n00b who's been here a week.Originally posted by: aniepras
BBond the fact is you wouldn't know truth if it smacked you in the face much less patriotismOriginally posted by: BBond
PS That and having blind followers ready to ignore the facts and do their bidding.
Originally posted by: BBond
Why don't you point out a few descrepancies in my posts to prove your point?
Originally posted by: aniepras
Didn't have to look far did I, now stop riding on conjurs curtails?
Originally posted by: BBond
Point out an inconsistency in the stories I've posted vs. the bullsh!t coming out of the U.S. military press office in Iraq.
Originally posted by: aniepras
Originally posted by: BBond
Point out an inconsistency in the stories I've posted vs. the bullsh!t coming out of the U.S. military press office in Iraq.
I never said you where inconsistent you are that i'll give you that. consistently misled
Originally posted by: aniepras
Originally posted by: BBond
Point out an inconsistency in the stories I've posted vs. the bullsh!t coming out of the U.S. military press office in Iraq.
I never said you where inconsistent you are that i'll give you that. consistently misled
Like I said. We're not going to win this the way it's being conducted. The lack of planning for a post-war Iraq has come back to bite us and it's cost us now over 1,600 soldiers' lives.BAQUBA, Iraq, May 12 (Reuters) - In a war where intelligence is as important as guns, leaks of information from Iraqi soldiers are undermining the battle against insurgents, senior U.S. and Iraqi officers say.
Officers told Reuters it was almost impossible to keep secrets among soldiers who have members of their family or tribe on the other side. The result is operations that turn up mounds of weapons and explosives but few suspects, because tipped-off rebels flee before raids even begin.
"We still don't have secure operations. When we go on a mission, this gets leaked out to the people," said Colonel Thaier Dhia Ismail Abid al-Tamimi, who heads an Iraqi battalion in Diyala province.
Even meetings among his fellow battalion commanders cannot stay secret in his area near the city of Muqdadiya, about 110 km (70 miles) northeast of Baghdad, said Tamimi, whose unit has been praised by U.S. officers for its professionalism.
I wholeheartedly agree but no way they will leave until they can "pass the buck" if democracy doesn't take. They will dump this in the next administration's lap, IMO without a doubt. Then they can play the blame game and spin it so it looks like they "fumbled the handoff" I keep hearing 3-4yrs batted around as how long they think it will take to get us out of there leaving behind a stable democratic Iraq capable of addressing threats it may face.Originally posted by: conjur
Let's stick to the topic, shall we?
Leaks plague battle against Iraqi insurgents
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/MAR222206.htmLike I said. We're not going to win this the way it's being conducted. The lack of planning for a post-war Iraq has come back to bite us and it's cost us now over 1,600 soldiers' lives.BAQUBA, Iraq, May 12 (Reuters) - In a war where intelligence is as important as guns, leaks of information from Iraqi soldiers are undermining the battle against insurgents, senior U.S. and Iraqi officers say.
Officers told Reuters it was almost impossible to keep secrets among soldiers who have members of their family or tribe on the other side. The result is operations that turn up mounds of weapons and explosives but few suspects, because tipped-off rebels flee before raids even begin.
"We still don't have secure operations. When we go on a mission, this gets leaked out to the people," said Colonel Thaier Dhia Ismail Abid al-Tamimi, who heads an Iraqi battalion in Diyala province.
Even meetings among his fellow battalion commanders cannot stay secret in his area near the city of Muqdadiya, about 110 km (70 miles) northeast of Baghdad, said Tamimi, whose unit has been praised by U.S. officers for its professionalism.
The time to leave is now.
Originally posted by: conjur
Until then, we're going to be stuck seeing headlines like this:
Three U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq attacks
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L1228889.htm
Originally posted by: raildogg
Zarqawi will be proud of the tools here spreading his message and boasting about the success of his terrorist attacks. OBL is grinning as he watches the tools sell the message of al-qaeda to the American people on this forum. Thanks for respecting this country. :disgust:
What you are doing isn't a public service, what you are doing is spreading the message of terrorists and showcasing their success. You people will cry a river when someone accuses you of aiding the enemy or even siding with the enemy, but thats the perception you get with your cheerleading of the successes of Zarqawi and his Islamic thugs in Iraq.
Remember that if you were alive during World War 2 and this forum had existed , you would have been locked up. And rightfully so. We were at too much of a risk to tolerate this type of behavior.
But, imo, that's not the case. The Iraqi gov't is in place. The attacks we're seeing now are against US positions and against people who collaborate with the US.Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Yes sir, it really is a crying shame. I have the attitude now, that since we are there and we won't be leaving anytime soon, I'll support our guys 100% and hope that despite my own misgivings, we will get them on their way to a stable, democratically run country that will have a positive influence ont he entire region over time.Originally posted by: conjur
Until then, we're going to be stuck seeing headlines like this:
Three U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq attacks
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L1228889.htm
Look, I know Bush burned you when you trusted him, but that shouldn't stop you from hoping this turns out well for the Iraqis in the end, and justifies our peoples sacrifice for them. As the kids say in their venacular, hate the player, not the game.
The new Iraqi government that was sworn in last week, after the first democratic elections in the country?s history, took three months to create. It is due to expire, according to a timetable set by the United Nations, by December (after the writing of a constitution, a referendum, and another election), which means that almost a third of its life has been spent being born. During this prolonged delivery, the Iraqis, who risked so much by going to vote on January 30th, and gained so much by showing themselves that they could, have steadily lost faith in the leaders they elected. While the politicians have been arguing over jobs?some key positions are still unfilled?the post-election lull in violence has come to an end, and the daily deaths of scores of Iraqis have again become numbingly familiar.
One conclusion to draw from the unlovely spectacle of democratic governance in Iraq is that the two dominant American views of the war were both wrong. Iraq is a far less modern, less united, and less friendly place than the fondest hopes of the war?s architects would have had the American public believe. At the same time, the ability of those architects to control the outcome for their own purposes is close to zero. Some war boosters, in and out of the Administration, have nonetheless been quietly declaring mission accomplished redux, with a shrug: they never thought Iraq would be perfect, and everything from here on out is just footnotes. In public, they seem to want Americans to forget all about Iraq.
The group of men who have emerged as Iraq?s rulers is dominated by aging former opposition politicians?heavyset power brokers with thick jowls and armed militias. Their backing comes from narrow ethnic and sectarian bases; since the elections, though, the sound of Shiite triumphalism has been growing louder. Shiite leaders have begun to insist on a wholesale purge of the overwhelmingly Sunni Baathists recently brought back into government. The new Prime Minister, Ibrahim al-Jaafari, of the Shiite Islamic Dawa Party, is a man of mediocre talents but with an oratorical gift admired by Iraqis. During his time on the now defunct Governing Council, he used to harass secretaries for coming to work unveiled. According to one leading Shiite cleric, Jaafari was Tehran?s choice.The Deputy Prime Minister is the Lazarus-like Ahmad Chalabi, who has converted his poll-tested unpopularity into power through sheer backroom political genius. Washington neoconservatives once claimed that Chalabi was the only real liberal among Iraqi leaders, but he owes his comeback from last year?s disgrace to a tactical alliance with the least liberal man in Iraqi politics: the radical (and unstable) cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. Chalabi, a secularist without facial hair, now occupies the seat of hard-line Shiism at the table. A consummate dealmaker, he is holding the oil portfolio until the government selects a minister. That person will come, in all likelihood, from the small party that calls itself the true heir of Sadr?s martyred father, who advocated the rule of the clerics. Moqtada?s own followers have been given the health ministry; having intimidated doctors by sending armed militiamen to take over hospitals, they will now be able to practice their theocratic medicine with the blessing of the minister.
In a country emerging from dictatorship, a secular, nonsectarian brand of nationalism seldom fares well. In Iraq, it is represented by the party of Iyad Allawi, the former interim Prime Minister, which came in a distant third in the elections, after the Shiite coalition and the Kurds. Allawi?s party is not included in the new government, and the more moderate Shiites and Sunnis, who don?t want to be governed by clerics of either sect, worry that a conservative and divisive vision of Islam will dominate the constitution. ?They have the right to be worried,? said the newly appointed Vice-President, Adel Abdul-Mahdi, who, as the second-in-command of the largest Shiite party, was essentially warning against his own side. ?I hope they will stay worried. Victory is the most dangerous moment.?
For the moment, the Kurds represent the greatest hope of the more secular and liberal Iraqis. In the surest sign that the virulent Arab nationalism of the Baathist regime has been repudiated, Jalal Talabani has made history by becoming Iraq?s first Kurdish president. But the Kurds are playing a two-track game?to secure a powerful place in Baghdad, and to consolidate their autonomous region in the north?and if, as seems likely, the roads ever diverge, the Kurds will pursue their separate destiny. The Sunnis, for their part, seem to be balanced on the edge of total rejection. Long in power, they never learned to think of themselves as one group among several, and now no one is able to speak for them. Jaafari?s attempts, in the spirit of inclusiveness, to put Sunnis in half a dozen ministerial posts?most important, defense?keep crumbling, owing to both Sunni disunity and Shiite obstruction. At the swearing-in ceremony, the chair of the Sunni Vice-President, Sheikh Ghazi al-Yawar, was ominously empty?a gesture of protest.
The stakes would be lower if Iraq were not fighting a desperate insurgency that looks more and more like a civil war. Every banal decision, every job offered or withheld, carries the risk of driving more Sunnis to take up weapons, and of forcing Shiites and Kurds to cling tighter to power. Iraq has never had a unifying visionary politician?a Mandela, a Havel, or a Gandhi. The man who comes nearest, Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, isn?t a politician, and, as a Shiite cleric, he has a limited ability to unify; his electoral intervention on behalf of the Shiite coalition tarnished his lustre as a truly national figure. ?The Hour is great,? Carlyle wrote, ?and the Honorable Gentlemen, I must say, are small.? But you create a democracy with the talent you have, and Iraq?s politicians are confronting the most vexing existential questions.
Two years ago, there was a moment when the Americans might have molded Iraq after their own desire, for better or worse. Their incompetence surprised no one more than the Iraqis. The country has long since hardened into its own shape, and whether it holds together or breaks into pieces is largely up to the Iraqis who now have it in their hands. But the least debt that Americans now owe Iraq is to realize that the footnotes will control the lives of Iraqis for years to come, with plenty of time left for great improvement or great damage.
? George Packer
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: raildogg
Zarqawi will be proud of the tools here spreading his message and boasting about the success of his terrorist attacks. OBL is grinning as he watches the tools sell the message of al-qaeda to the American people on this forum. Thanks for respecting this country. :disgust:
What you are doing isn't a public service, what you are doing is spreading the message of terrorists and showcasing their success. You people will cry a river when someone accuses you of aiding the enemy or even siding with the enemy, but thats the perception you get with your cheerleading of the successes of Zarqawi and his Islamic thugs in Iraq.
Remember that if you were alive during World War 2 and this forum had existed , you would have been locked up. And rightfully so. We were at too much of a risk to tolerate this type of behavior.
You are a fascist tool.
This must be one of the new GOP memes. The modern-day version of calling 60s/70s protestors commies. :roll:Originally posted by: raildogg
Why do you like Zarqawi so much?
Be glad that FDR isn't president and you're free to spew this much propaganda of the enemy.
Remember, "loose lips sink ships".
