Plastic Bags BANNED in New York State

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
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We go shopping about once a week. When we go, we usually leave the store with about 10-15 plastic bags. With reusable bags, we'd need to figure out how many to bring to the store, carry them around while shopping, wash and store them at home, buy more every trip because I didn't bring enough etc .

Shopping more often, with less bags, would probably be worse just because it's an hour drive round trip. Are paper bags still allowed and are they actually a better environmental option?

I'm sure we'd find alternatives and adapt to the shopping bag problem. Probably start by ordering as much as possible online and have it delivered.

No plastic trash bags seems like it would be a much bigger problem. Without trash bags/trash can liners, kitchen trash cans get unsanitary in a hurry. Do you wash your trash cans every time you take out the trash? How do you avoid smelly, maggot infested outdoor trash cans?

The rest of the developed world long ago figured this out....actually, it is a rare thing that grocery stores provide crappy plastic bags in other parts of the world. It's one of those uniquely preposterous American things, that, when you think about, makes no sense.

I'm sure you'll just as easily adapt as the rest of the world, and the Americans that pretty quickly have over the last couple of years. For all the worries that life throws at you, keeping some shopping bags in your car and in your house and day bag are....not really worries at all.
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
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The rest of the developed world long ago figured this out....actually, it is a rare thing that grocery stores provide crappy plastic bags in other parts of the world. It's one of those uniquely preposterous American things, that, when you think about, makes no sense.

I'm sure you'll just as easily adapt as the rest of the world, and the Americans that pretty quickly have over the last couple of years. For all the worries that life throws at you, keeping some shopping bags in your car and in your house and day bag are....not really worries at all.
This^^^
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
23,967
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NY, be prepared to have ballot measures aimed at repealing the bag ban.
IN CA the ban was approved in 2014.
In 2016 the American Progressive Bag Alliance, put two propositions on the ballot to, fuck with/confuse the voters on
the ban already in place.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/es...-and-67-plastic-bag-1478824918-htmlstory.html

Luckily the voters saw through this and defeated both of them.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-plastic-bag-ban-propositions-20161012-snap-story.html
"Four out-of-state plastic bag manufacturers have provided 97% of the contributions to the American Plastic Bag Alliance, which is the only committee working to defeat Proposition 67 and pass Proposition 65, according to MapLight, a nonpartisan organization that tracks money in politics.

The companies, including South Carolina-based Hilex Poly and Texas-based Formosa Plastics, have poured more than $5 million into the political committee."
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,960
782
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I interpreted the situation as trying to reduce single use bags, with an emphasis on plastic since it's the larger problem.

Hemp is a great alternative to regular paper.

If you haven't read it, check out "the emperor wears no clothes", it's a book about the many uses of hemp or MJ, aka both are cannabis.

Regardless of the recyclable used, it's gotta get recycled if possible, not sent to the landfill.

Sure, I'm good with hemp. I'm OK with the MJ too but banning hemp is beyond unforgivable.

That said, why do single use paper bags need to be banned?
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,960
782
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Paper bags are tearable. They're also terrible. Except for one I got from Safeway once. It was tough, with handles.

Hah! I was just thinking I like the paper ones because they are bigger and less tearable. Except the handles. I don't trust the handles at all.
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,960
782
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Thanks. I don't get a "ban paper bags at grocery stores" vibe from that article. Paper usage in general could likely be reduced in other, far more effective ways first? Sure, every little bit helps, but let's not pass mass bans in order to help in a way that isn't going to be measurable if we round to the nearest hundredth of a percent. I do like the suggestions in the article:

Solutions
Governments and organizations have put in place different measures to address the environmental impact of the paper industry. They include:
- Sustainable forest management.
- Pulp bleaching using non-elemental chlorine process
- Recycling of paper waste material
- Regulating pulp and paper
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
890
153
106
The rest of the developed world long ago figured this out....actually, it is a rare thing that grocery stores provide crappy plastic bags in other parts of the world. It's one of those uniquely preposterous American things, that, when you think about, makes no sense.

I'm sure you'll just as easily adapt as the rest of the world, and the Americans that pretty quickly have over the last couple of years. For all the worries that life throws at you, keeping some shopping bags in your car and in your house and day bag are....not really worries at all.

Yeah, I'm in Alabama; we're a little behind the rest of the developed world in some ways.

I just got back from Walmart with 23 plastic bags and with a little more insight. The checkout has a carousel with plastic bags to make it convenient for the cashier to ring up and bag at the same time. When I asked her about reusable bags, she said, if you're going to use those, please use the self checkout or just go to Publix. Her major concerns were how much it slows down the checkout process and how nasty the reusable bags are. Still, I'm committed now and we'll make it work, even if it means going to another store.

Now, to find some good hemp bags and figure how many it'll take to hold as much as 23 plastic bags.
 
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whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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Yeah, I'm in Alabama; we're a little behind the rest of the developed world in some ways.

I just got back from Walmart with 23 plastic bags and with a little more insight. The checkout has a carousel with plastic bags to make it convenient for the cashier to ring up and bag at the same time. When I asked her about reusable bags, she said, if you're going to use those, please use the self checkout or just go to Publix. Her major concerns were how much it slows down the checkout process and how nasty the reusable bags are. Still, I'm committed now and we'll make it work, even if it means going to another store.

Now, to find some good hemp bags and figure how many it'll take to hold as much as 23 plastic bags.
Well you could reuse those plastic bags for small office trash can liners.
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
890
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Well you could reuse those plastic bags for small office trash can liners.

We do find a lot ways like that to reuse them but quite a few still go straight to the trash. If I can do something to reduce the amount I send to the trash, I'm on board.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,436
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We do find a lot ways like that to reuse them but quite a few still go straight to the trash. If I can do something to reduce the amount I send to the trash, I'm on board.
Well the large and strong plastic bags I get from Ruler Foods are very reusable, so I take them with me when I go grocery shopping there.

Hell I'll even wash and reuse the containers the food comes in if suitable. You will be surprised on how many of those are actually reusable.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,952
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Paper use risen by 400%, for real? But... electronic communication has come into existence and rapidly matured and gone mainstream. !@# people who still send out mail.

BTW, with limited resources, does P&N still defend population increase? Should we supply the plastic and paper demands of another 150 million additional Americans in 30 years?
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,436
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Paper use risen by 400%, for real? But... electronic communication has come into existence and rapidly matured and gone mainstream. !@# people who still send out mail.

BTW, with limited resources, does P&N still defend population increase? Should we supply the plastic and paper demands of another 150 million additional Americans in 30 years?
I'm wondering if in the future we will have start rationing our limited resources to ensure enough of them for everyone? This will include Reduce, Reuse, and Recycling among other things.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,528
11,189
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Paper use risen by 400%, for real? But... electronic communication has come into existence and rapidly matured and gone mainstream. !@# people who still send out mail.

One of my customers - a small business owner run by a couple with no other employees - prints out an invoice to send to a customer, scans it, e-mails the scanned invoice, then files the paper invoice in the filing cabinet.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,602
8,508
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There are at least as many environmental costs for one-use paper bags as well, by the way. I think a full "environmental audit" comes out about even.
Also the various 'bags for life' are a bit crap as well, environmentally-speaking, _unless_ they really are reused at least a few dozen times.

Also, plastic disposable carrier bags are a tiny proportion not just of waste but even of plastic waste. I think it is a _slightly_ overblown issue.

But they are very significant in terms of littering (which seems to be the one environmental issue that conservatives really care about), and they can kill wildlife. They tend to end up blowing across the landscape even when they are 'properly' disposed of.

You can tell there's a landfill site around because there are plastic bags in all the trees. When passing one such place my thought was "Ah, here's where they harvest the plastic bags from the plastic bag trees!".

So I'm OK with the levy, the evidence certainly seems to be that it works in reducing bag use. And I always used a rucksack anyway, when I remembered.

But they really ought to do more to reduce car use, which I think is a bigger problem.
 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
16,343
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grocery store plastic bags are just as tearable..
Not really. They s.t..r...e....t.....c......h before they tear.

Hah! I was just thinking I like the paper ones because they are bigger and less tearable. Except the handles. I don't trust the handles at all.
If the handles are cutouts I don't trust them. Paper or plastic! The Safeway bag I got had handles glued on. I prefer carrying a bag by its handles.

I'm wondering if in the future we will have start rationing our limited resources to ensure enough of them for everyone? This will include Reduce, Reuse, and Recycling among other things.
If there's an intrinsic limitation the market will raise the price of the resources.

If it's an external cost, such as bags clogging waterways, then the government needs to implement a tax that covers the cost of fixing the problem. That's a part of market economics that Republicans either forgot or willfully ignore to make their constituents happy. Or they signed up with Grover Norquist without thinking through a "no new taxes" pledge and they're stuck.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,141
5,085
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Go grocery shopping. Place things in cart.
Pay for stuff.
Skip bags all together.
Put stuff right back into cart.
Pull cart up to car. Toss items in trunk or get all fancy an toss in to a collapsible car bin.

If need arises. Use reusable bag.

Is this an issue of people so dense that they can't figure out how to adapt?
 
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esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
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Go grocery shopping. Place things in cart.
Pay for stuff.
Skip bags all together.
Put stuff right back into cart.
Pull cart up to car. Toss items in trunk or get all fancy an toss in to a collapsible car bin.
If need arises. Use reusable bag.
Is this an issue of people so dense that they can't figure out how to adapt?
^^^^^ Yep

It's how its done at Costco. Once in a while, they may have boxes available for the customers, but generally
Costco checkers put everything back in the cart.
 

Denly

Golden Member
May 14, 2011
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Great, now please limit the use of styrofoam and plastic wrap. I know it get bloody with meat but there is no reason to package veg with styrofoam and wrap.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/28/nyregion/plastic-bag-ban-.html

So I guess my post will sound more of a rant, but there's just no way to sugar coat it. I used to think democrats were ok, but more and more I am starting to see that this is not the case.

Please, someone tell me this. How are people supposed to live without plastic bags? I come from Soviet Union and I know what it's like to live without many of the conveniences people have in United States. (Let me give you a hint... *It's not very convenient*)

You know what we used to do in good ol' USSR? We used to carry our garbage in metal/plastic buckets outside and throw it out, all by ourselves. That's right! Down the elevator we would travel, from whatever floor we lived on, then a 10 minute walk outside to the garbage containers, and then empty those buckets, walk all the way back, and up the elevator back home. Any weather, rain or snow. Oh, and then we had to wash said buckets, otherwise they would stink like crazy. In America, we have something called "FREE plastic bags" which we use to line our garbage cans, which makes it easy and convenient to toss our garbage down the garbage compactor available in every apartment building. That's what civilized people do.

Now the dems would have us, PAY for paper bags, or live like good Soviet citizens.

And then, the groceries... Myself and my comarades back in the early 90's used to carry our groceries in these "net baggies". Literally, it's a bag, made out of a net. If it tore, you had to patch it up, or buy a new one. The dems would have me go back to that here in US. Nice!

Look. I get it. Environmental impact and all that. But then, go after those who litter. Catch these people. Fine them like crazy for littering! Arrest them if you have to. Even jail them for all I care. But it's not the bags that's the problem. It's the people who use them. I NEVER, even once in my life threw out a bag in the street, and certainly not in the ocean or at the beach.

It seems like the longer Governor Cuomo is in power, the worse life gets for New Yorkers. There's just no end in sight to this madness. Whats next? Are we going to have to give up plastic bottles because it's not "environmentally friendly"? And then what? Watch TV less because we are wasting power?

Really, you survived USSR, but now you are having a meltdown because you'll have to buy plastic bags instead of the store giving them to you?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,952
8,002
136
There are at least as many environmental costs for one-use paper bags as well, by the way.

Is that paper bag inside your gut right now? Because microfibers from that plastic bag already are. THAT should be the alarm bell telling us we've really screwed the pooch this time.
We've created a synthetic from oil that is entering all water, and all life on the planet.
 
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