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Place your bets! Donald Trump is a...

Trump is...

  • A Russian useful idiot

  • A willing participant of Russia's plans

  • Compromised by Russians because they have something on him

  • incapable of accepting that russia helped elect him because of his ego

  • my president and I refuse to acknowledge anything negetaive about him

Results are only viewable after voting.
ivwshane

ivwshane

Lifer
I know early on when it was found out that Russia hacked the DNC and was behind the email releases that I thought trump was simply a useful idiot. I'm not so sure any more.

After recent events I believe trump is a willing participant and has been compromised, possibly, as early as the mid 80's when Russian mobsters bought condos from trump.

That being said, what's everyone's opinion on what is trumps relationship to Russia?
 
I've been caught between agreeing with (3) and (4) for a long time now. But ultimately I picked three. The thing about Trump is he always tries to project an image of strength with other world leaders, except when it comes to Putin. And he has been denying collusion all along and knows that at least appearing to take a tough stance against Putin on this would undermine those allegations and thus benefit him politically. Given his phenomenal ego and need to be seen as "tough," and given that he always acts according to what he perceives to benefit him most politically, it's hard to explain his constant boot licking of Putin unless we assume he is afraid of whatever Putin might do if he doesn't.
 
Going useful idiot to avoid the R-Agent word. I do need to define, Trump knowing a bunch of Russian guys over paid for properties doesn’t count as compromised because he’s a greedy idiot.
 
woolfe9998 said:
I've been caught between agreeing with (3) and (4) for a long time now. But ultimately I picked three. The thing about Trump is he always tries to project an image of strength with other world leaders, except when it comes to Putin. And he has been denying collusion all along and knows that at least appearing to take a tough stance against Putin on this would undermine those allegations and thus benefit him politically. Given his phenomenal ego and need to be seen as "tough," and given that he always acts according to what he perceives to benefit him most politically, it's hard to explain his constant boot licking of Putin unless we assume he is afraid of whatever Putin might do if he doesn't.
Click to expand...

What putin might do? What do you have in mind? Killing trump or his family? Releasing an unsavory video? Exposing his financial ties/corruption?

The fact that trump is a narcissist makes it hard for us to figure out his thinking. As a normal person, since most people are already aware of a potentially compromising tape and of a history of infidelity, it seems like the easy thing to do would be to stand up to putin and say to hell with the compromising info.
Now if it has something to do with exposing trumps corrupt finances, that's a little trickier situation to maneuver since there is a potential of being convicted of a crime and having everything taken from him.
If he's having threats to himself or his family, it would seem like the fact that he is protected by secret service, as is his family members, would render any threat useless.

But if you are compromised, would you be able to respond off the cuff so quickly with praise for your compromiser? Wouldn't body language convey some sort of uncomfortableness? Wouldn't there be contradicting statements eeked out when speaking off the cuff?
 
woolfe9998 said:
I've been caught between agreeing with (3) and (4) for a long time now. But ultimately I picked three. The thing about Trump is he always tries to project an image of strength with other world leaders, except when it comes to Putin. And he has been denying collusion all along and knows that at least appearing to take a tough stance against Putin on this would undermine those allegations and thus benefit him politically. Given his phenomenal ego and need to be seen as "tough," and given that he always acts according to what he perceives to benefit him most politically, it's hard to explain his constant boot licking of Putin unless we assume he is afraid of whatever Putin might do if he doesn't.
Click to expand...

I suspect it is #3 as well, most likely something finance related. (Money laundering) I think this because of the following things:

1) He’s pathologically secretive about his finances.
2) We know a ton of Russian money has come into his organization in recent years and he’s lied about it.
3) That money came in large part from people connected to Putin.
4) Trump is bizarrely submissive to Putin despite that being contrary to his own personality and the image he’s tried to cultivate.

That’s my best guess at least.
 
ivwshane said:
I know early on when it was found out that Russia hacked the DNC and was behind the email releases that I thought trump was simply a useful idiot. I'm not so sure any more.

After recent events I believe trump is a willing participant and has been compromised, possibly, as early as the mid 80's when Russian mobsters bought condos from trump.

That being said, what's everyone's opinion on what is trumps relationship to Russia?
Click to expand...
Someone recently posted something like "is Trump gay for Putin" ... I wouldnt rule it out. Think about it, Putin with his background plays Trump like a fiddle, Trump has never in his life had a *real* friend.. I think maybe Trump thinks that Putin is his *real* friend... Its that black hole again.
 
whm1974 said:
1, 3, and 4. Maybe even #2 as well.
Click to expand...

Really need a multiple selection on this.

My read is that he's an (unwitting) agent of the Russians.

I only say unwitting due to his incredible ego and naivete which prevents him from thinking that anyone else is in control but him, even if it's a complete delusion.

I think he's fully bought into the Russian view, but convinced that it's because he's so smart he's the only one that can see it.
Even yesterday he called Americans foolish and stupid in the past.

A healthy dose of kompromat eases him into this view. It would have to be financial, not because he's not done vile things, but because the only thing he actually gives a shit about is his money. He has no actual shame.

This may the the worst possible result.
 
woolfe9998 said:
I've been caught between agreeing with (3) and (4) for a long time now. But ultimately I picked three. The thing about Trump is he always tries to project an image of strength with other world leaders, except when it comes to Putin. And he has been denying collusion all along and knows that at least appearing to take a tough stance against Putin on this would undermine those allegations and thus benefit him politically. Given his phenomenal ego and need to be seen as "tough," and given that he always acts according to what he perceives to benefit him most politically, it's hard to explain his constant boot licking of Putin unless we assume he is afraid of whatever Putin might do if he doesn't.
Click to expand...

Multiple correct answers seems possible, but I instead chose instead 4 as a slam dunk. Trump's psychotic defenses against narcissistic injury have been on display from day 1. If he could not accept the reality of his margin of victory without inventing illegal voters, inauguration attendees, historic landslide margin, etc., then why would we expect him to be able to accept the reality that he was actively aided by a foreign government whose goal is to weaken the US?
 
I don't believe Putin forced him to run over blackmail. His limitless greed is enough reason (think Trump Tower Moscow or a cut from removing sanctions) for him to be a willing participant.

I don't think "useful idiot" is even remotely possible. I think of that as something more akin to Jill Stein's run, but even in that case, I believe she was aware of the potential consequences (her interests simply were a priority over that)..
 
interchange said:
Multiple correct answers seems possible, but I instead chose instead 4 as a slam dunk. Trump's psychotic defenses against narcissistic injury have been on display from day 1. If he could not accept the reality of his margin of victory without inventing illegal voters, inauguration attendees, historic landslide margin, etc., then why would we expect him to be able to accept the reality that he was actively aided by a foreign government whose goal is to weaken the US?
Click to expand...

Is it his ego or was he simply trying to discredit and question the legitimacy of our democratic process. Remember, before comey came out with more bullshit, trump already thought he was going to lose and his narrative went to claiming the election was rigged when it appeared he didn't have a chance.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/18/politics/donald-trump-rigged-election/index.html

That also explains why, even after winning, that he continued to claim the election was rigged and had three million illegal votes cast for Hillary. It was an odd statement from him because he basically admitted that the elections weren't legitimate, even though he won.
 
interchange said:
Multiple correct answers seems possible, but I instead chose instead 4 as a slam dunk. Trump's psychotic defenses against narcissistic injury have been on display from day 1. If he could not accept the reality of his margin of victory without inventing illegal voters, inauguration attendees, historic landslide margin, etc., then why would we expect him to be able to accept the reality that he was actively aided by a foreign government whose goal is to weaken the US?
Click to expand...

I agree multiple factors is the most likely answer but if it’s only narcissism then why does Trump refuse to criticize Putin about ANYTHING, even things like invading Ukraine and murdering journalists? To me that indicates something more.
 
interchange said:
Multiple correct answers seems possible, but I instead chose instead 4 as a slam dunk. Trump's psychotic defenses against narcissistic injury have been on display from day 1. If he could not accept the reality of his margin of victory without inventing illegal voters, inauguration attendees, historic landslide margin, etc., then why would we expect him to be able to accept the reality that he was actively aided by a foreign government whose goal is to weaken the US?
Click to expand...

"Inventing illegals" and throwing other manure out there is something ALL of the Republicans do. There is also more to his denial of Russian involvement that furthers their interests at the expense of ours. It's too trivial of an explanation to explain the "why". He can't cross Putin for obvious reasons!
 
fskimospy said:
I agree multiple factors is the most likely answer but if it’s only narcissism then why does Trump refuse to criticize Putin about ANYTHING, even things like invading Ukraine and murdering journalists? To me that indicates something more.
Click to expand...

I see useful idiot as the net result, and the other factors the driving motivations for the behavior (ie Vanity, Greed, Fear.)

Trump doesn't have any true convictions (other than his fucked up sense of Loyalty), so he's no martyr for the Russian cause.

However, this episode makes it ever urgent of why we need Mueller's investigation to independently and exhaustively tell us what the fuck is going on.
 
Clearly, when Trump's privatized secret police starts investigating... the only correct answer is:
my god-emperor and I refuse to acknowledge anything vegetative about him.

//:Who misspelled NEGATIVE!
 
I used to be somewhat skeptical that the Russians really have something over him (money, pee tape, corruption, etc) but it's increasingly the only possible explanation unless a miniature Putin pops a hatch on Trump's body and waves someday.
 
ivwshane said:
What putin might do? What do you have in mind? Killing trump or his family? Releasing an unsavory video? Exposing his financial ties/corruption?

The fact that trump is a narcissist makes it hard for us to figure out his thinking. As a normal person, since most people are already aware of a potentially compromising tape and of a history of infidelity, it seems like the easy thing to do would be to stand up to putin and say to hell with the compromising info.
Now if it has something to do with exposing trumps corrupt finances, that's a little trickier situation to maneuver since there is a potential of being convicted of a crime and having everything taken from him.
If he's having threats to himself or his family, it would seem like the fact that he is protected by secret service, as is his family members, would render any threat useless.

But if you are compromised, would you be able to respond off the cuff so quickly with praise for your compromiser? Wouldn't body language convey some sort of uncomfortableness? Wouldn't there be contradicting statements eeked out when speaking off the cuff?
Click to expand...

I don't think it's a pee tape. Putin couldn't release such a tape at this juncture not only because his leverage would evaporate if he does, but because doing so would prove Putin's denials to be a lie and would validate the most scandalous things being said about Russia right now. Putin would incriminate himself as much as Trump. Trump has to know this, meaning such a tape is no leverage at all. It's more likely something financial, something which could be leaked to US journalists and/or law enforcement on the sly, and for which Putin could publicly claim no knowledge. The fact that Trump is so desperate to hide his tax returns and other financial information tends to bolster this theory.
 
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