Pistol-Packing Soccer Mom Sues Sheriff

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Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Originally posted by: Amused
Honestly, if you look at the stats, the more law abiding citizens you have around you armed, the safer you are. You are least safe in areas in which the law abiding are disarmed.

Well, I do think that if people felt alarmed by it (probably also a bit off... carrying guns around as a normal person isn't horribly common... unless yer huntin'), the officer had a right to ask her to think twice about bringing it next time. I think he may've been a bit too harsh in what he did, but I see no harm in asking to exercise some restraint with it next time. Maybe that would spur talks with other parents about the inherent safety of it and do some good rather than create a bad situation via a knee-jerk reaction.
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: daniel1113
My point stands. Your fear of guns is not a valid reason to limit another person's rights.

I don't fear guns. This chick sounds like a nutball and I fear nutballs.

Oh, well please provide your evidence that she is a "loon"? Surely you must have some pretty good evidence to make such a claim. You probably have the extended article with all the personal details that I didn't get to read.
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: Aikouka
Originally posted by: Amused
Honestly, if you look at the stats, the more law abiding citizens you have around you armed, the safer you are. You are least safe in areas in which the law abiding are disarmed.

Well, I do think that if people felt alarmed by it (probably also a bit off... carrying guns around as a normal person isn't horribly common... unless yer huntin'), the officer had a right to ask her to think twice about bringing it next time. I think he may've been a bit too harsh in what he did, but I see no harm in asking to exercise some restraint with it next time. Maybe that would spur talks with other parents about the inherent safety of it and do some good rather than create a bad situation via a knee-jerk reaction.

Well, unfortunately for you, the law is not in agreement with your beliefs. An officer in PA has absolutely no right to ask a person to not carry a gun openly or to not be on public property while doing so.

EDIT: Correction, the officer can ask all he wants, but no one need listen. He has no authority to demand such an action.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Honestly, I wouldn't want some total stranger carrying a gun at my son's soccer game either. People are fucking loons, I don't trust perfect strangers with my son...I don't care if the government gave them a permit to carry. Leave your fucking gun at home.

Honestly, if you look at the stats, the more law abiding citizens you have around you armed, the safer you are. You are least safe in areas in which the law abiding are disarmed.

This chick sounds like a loon. I'd question her sanity just for the decisions she made based on this news story.

I don't want her armed around me or my son.

Please explain, in detail, just what makes you think she's a loon from the article?

Who goes to a children's soccer game openly packing a pistol? WTF is wrong with this woman? She has had incidents in the past where people have expressed concern with her being armed in public. Hell, the judge who gave reinstated her license also questioned her judgement.

Sounds pretty looney to me.
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Honestly, I wouldn't want some total stranger carrying a gun at my son's soccer game either. People are fucking loons, I don't trust perfect strangers with my son...I don't care if the government gave them a permit to carry. Leave your fucking gun at home.

Come make me.

If you don't like it you are free to move somewhere that doesn't offer that right to the people. Or you are free to try and take away the right. You will not succeed however.
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Honestly, I wouldn't want some total stranger carrying a gun at my son's soccer game either. People are fucking loons, I don't trust perfect strangers with my son...I don't care if the government gave them a permit to carry. Leave your fucking gun at home.

Honestly, if you look at the stats, the more law abiding citizens you have around you armed, the safer you are. You are least safe in areas in which the law abiding are disarmed.

This chick sounds like a loon. I'd question her sanity just for the decisions she made based on this news story.

I don't want her armed around me or my son.

Tough shit, you're not in charge.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,512
21
81
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Originally posted by: SampSon
There is always more to the story.

Indeed -

DeLeo said at Hain's Oct. 14 appeal hearing he pulled her license after fielding the parents' complaints.

There's obviously some basis for the removal that was not offered up to the reporter in writing the article. My guess is that she has a habit of NOT concealing an otherwise concealed weapon for reasons probably toward intimidation of other parties.

From the local newspaper:

Parents were upset by the presence of the weapon at the game being played by 4- and 5-year-olds, said Charlie Jones, who coaches one of three under-age-6 teams, known as U6, in the Lebanon Recreation Youth Soccer program.

?More than one parent was upset,? he said. ?I did not see it, but it was brought to my attention.?

Jones, who is also the county?s public defender, said he wasn?t certain if Hain was breaking the law by wearing the gun, so he did not ask her to remove it. However, he explained to her that its presence was making parents upset and asked her to view the game from the other side of the field, away from the sideline were the kids were standing. She complied but continued to wear her holstered weapon, he said.

There was no confrontation, and police were not called to the park, Jones said.

No indication that she had any intent to intimidate. In fact, she complied with requests that she move to the other side of the field.

ZV
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Honestly, I wouldn't want some total stranger carrying a gun at my son's soccer game either. People are fucking loons, I don't trust perfect strangers with my son...I don't care if the government gave them a permit to carry. Leave your fucking gun at home.

Honestly, if you look at the stats, the more law abiding citizens you have around you armed, the safer you are. You are least safe in areas in which the law abiding are disarmed.

This chick sounds like a loon. I'd question her sanity just for the decisions she made based on this news story.

I don't want her armed around me or my son.

Please explain, in detail, just what makes you think she's a loon from the article?

Who goes to a children's soccer game openly packing a pistol? WTF is wrong with this woman? She has had incidents in the past where people have expressed concern with her being armed in public. Hell, the judge who gave reinstated her license also questioned her judgement.

Sounds pretty looney to me.

I would, in order to avoid losing my concealed permit. I'd rather force others to deal with reality than break the law by allowing my concealed weapon to be glimpsed in an active setting.
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Who goes to a children's soccer game openly packing a pistol? WTF is wrong with this woman? She has had incidents in the past where people have expressed concern with her being armed in public. Hell, the judge who gave reinstated her license also questioned her judgement.

Sounds pretty looney to me.

Uh. As I've already mentioned, in PA simply carrying a gun openly is not reason enough to revoke a LTCF. Hell, it's not even reason enough to be stopped by the police (Commonwealth v. Hawkins 1996).
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Originally posted by: Baked
Dear stupid bitch, It's called concealed carry, not show off carry. Don't go around town acting like you're the fucking sheriff, showing off your fucking gun, and people wouldn't give you the eye.

in PA it is legal to carry openly. she did nothing wrong. the only wrong doing was done by the heriff by revoking her license.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Honestly, I wouldn't want some total stranger carrying a gun at my son's soccer game either. People are fucking loons, I don't trust perfect strangers with my son...I don't care if the government gave them a permit to carry. Leave your fucking gun at home.

Honestly, if you look at the stats, the more law abiding citizens you have around you armed, the safer you are. You are least safe in areas in which the law abiding are disarmed.

This chick sounds like a loon. I'd question her sanity just for the decisions she made based on this news story.

I don't want her armed around me or my son.

Please explain, in detail, just what makes you think she's a loon from the article?

Who goes to a children's soccer game openly packing a pistol? WTF is wrong with this woman? She has had incidents in the past where people have expressed concern with her being armed in public. Hell, the judge who gave reinstated her license also questioned her judgement.

Sounds pretty looney to me.

She is acting in a legal manner. She never brandished the gun, nor threatened anyone.

I fail to see how legally carrying a weapon and exercising your constitutional rights makes one a loon.

And you fail at reading comprehension. The discrimination and continued hysteria occurred AFTER the soccer game hysteria.

Previous to that, she carried with no complaint.

The judge is acting just as you and others in this thread are acting: That the very act of being armed is somehow a threat to others. He is mistaken as are you.

The people who are wrong here are those who acted irrationally and caused a lot of fear over a woman who was legally armed, not threatening anyone and acting 100% lawfully.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Honestly, I wouldn't want some total stranger carrying a gun at my son's soccer game either. People are fucking loons, I don't trust perfect strangers with my son...I don't care if the government gave them a permit to carry. Leave your fucking gun at home.

Come make me.

If you don't like it you are free to move somewhere that doesn't offer that right to the people. Or you are free to try and take away the right. You will not succeed however.

Ooh, another internet tough guy. :laugh:
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: Baked
Dear stupid bitch, It's called concealed carry, not show off carry. Don't go around town acting like you're the fucking sheriff, showing off your fucking gun, and people wouldn't give you the eye.

Actually, it's not called concealed carry in PA. Perhaps you should do some basic research before making a fool of yourself, eh?
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Honestly, I wouldn't want some total stranger carrying a gun at my son's soccer game either. People are fucking loons, I don't trust perfect strangers with my son...I don't care if the government gave them a permit to carry. Leave your fucking gun at home.

Come make me.

If you don't like it you are free to move somewhere that doesn't offer that right to the people. Or you are free to try and take away the right. You will not succeed however.

Ooh, another internet tough guy. :laugh:

Not at all. Just saying, you can't tell me what to do, especially with the law on MY side, not yours. If you think otherwise you're free to demonstrate how I'm wrong.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Honestly, I wouldn't want some total stranger carrying a gun at my son's soccer game either. People are fucking loons, I don't trust perfect strangers with my son...I don't care if the government gave them a permit to carry. Leave your fucking gun at home.

Honestly, if you look at the stats, the more law abiding citizens you have around you armed, the safer you are. You are least safe in areas in which the law abiding are disarmed.

This chick sounds like a loon. I'd question her sanity just for the decisions she made based on this news story.

I don't want her armed around me or my son.

Please explain, in detail, just what makes you think she's a loon from the article?

Who goes to a children's soccer game openly packing a pistol? WTF is wrong with this woman? She has had incidents in the past where people have expressed concern with her being armed in public. Hell, the judge who gave reinstated her license also questioned her judgement.

Sounds pretty looney to me.

She is acting in a legal manner. She never brandished the gun, nor threatened anyone.

I fail to see how legally carrying a weapon and exercising your constitutional rights makes one a loon.

And you fail at reading comprehension. The discrimination and continued hysteria occurred AFTER the soccer game hysteria.

Previous to that, she carried with no complaint.

The judge is acting just as you and others in this thread are acting: That the very act of being armed is somehow a threat to others. He is mistaken as are you.

The people who are wrong here are those who acted irrationally and caused a lot of fear over a woman who was legally armed, not threatening anyone and acting 100% lawfully.

Well, that is YOUR opinion. Not fact.
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Honestly, I wouldn't want some total stranger carrying a gun at my son's soccer game either. People are fucking loons, I don't trust perfect strangers with my son...I don't care if the government gave them a permit to carry. Leave your fucking gun at home.

Honestly, if you look at the stats, the more law abiding citizens you have around you armed, the safer you are. You are least safe in areas in which the law abiding are disarmed.

This chick sounds like a loon. I'd question her sanity just for the decisions she made based on this news story.

I don't want her armed around me or my son.

Please explain, in detail, just what makes you think she's a loon from the article?

Who goes to a children's soccer game openly packing a pistol? WTF is wrong with this woman? She has had incidents in the past where people have expressed concern with her being armed in public. Hell, the judge who gave reinstated her license also questioned her judgement.

Sounds pretty looney to me.

She is acting in a legal manner. She never brandished the gun, nor threatened anyone.

I fail to see how legally carrying a weapon and exercising your constitutional rights makes one a loon.

And you fail at reading comprehension. The discrimination and continued hysteria occurred AFTER the soccer game hysteria.

Previous to that, she carried with no complaint.

The judge is acting just as you and others in this thread are acting: That the very act of being armed is somehow a threat to others. He is mistaken as are you.

The people who are wrong here are those who acted irrationally and caused a lot of fear over a woman who was legally armed, not threatening anyone and acting 100% lawfully.

Well, that is YOUR opinion. Not fact.

How is that not fact?
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,512
21
81
Originally posted by: edro
Some open / concealed carry laws also say that you cannot insight panic.
If someone freaks out, you can be arrested.

Ohio's says this.

Not quite.

The other person has to have a reasonable basis for being afraid. The Washington open carry statute is similar.

Someone seeing the gun and being afraid is not enough. There must be other factors. For example, un-holsetering the weapon is one such factor, as is grasping the grip. Another factor might be engaging in a shouting match (without the gun), leaving, and coming back to start the argument again, only this time with the firearm.

Just walking down the street and minding your own business does not cross the threshold for causing a reasonable basis for fear.

ZV
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Well, that is YOUR opinion. Not fact.

I've already posted PA legal information that proves you wrong, along with the applicable court case.
 

Turin39789

Lifer
Nov 21, 2000
12,218
8
81
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Honestly, I wouldn't want some total stranger carrying a gun at my son's soccer game either. People are fucking loons, I don't trust perfect strangers with my son...I don't care if the government gave them a permit to carry. Leave your fucking gun at home.

Honestly, if you look at the stats, the more law abiding citizens you have around you armed, the safer you are. You are least safe in areas in which the law abiding are disarmed.

This chick sounds like a loon. I'd question her sanity just for the decisions she made based on this news story.

I don't want her armed around me or my son.

Please explain, in detail, just what makes you think she's a loon from the article?

Who goes to a children's soccer game openly packing a pistol? WTF is wrong with this woman? She has had incidents in the past where people have expressed concern with her being armed in public. Hell, the judge who gave reinstated her license also questioned her judgement.

Sounds pretty looney to me.

She is acting in a legal manner. She never brandished the gun, nor threatened anyone.

I fail to see how legally carrying a weapon and exercising your constitutional rights makes one a loon.

And you fail at reading comprehension. The discrimination and continued hysteria occurred AFTER the soccer game hysteria.

Previous to that, she carried with no complaint.

The judge is acting just as you and others in this thread are acting: That the very act of being armed is somehow a threat to others. He is mistaken as are you.

The people who are wrong here are those who acted irrationally and caused a lot of fear over a woman who was legally armed, not threatening anyone and acting 100% lawfully.

Well, that is YOUR opinion. Not fact.

How is that not fact?

Because it is an opinion?
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: EGGO
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Those who treat guns like a toy or something to make them look bad ass should not be allowed to have guns.

Didn't seem to be doing that.

how do you know one way or the other? we have people quoting PA statutues and offering legal arguments and worse, conclusions, based on one third-hand ambiguous article. She obviously didn't get her license revoked simply for wearing her gun, b/c wtf would be the purpose of granting cw permits if merely carrying resulted in revocation? There's more here and we just don't know it yet. ppl need to chill a bit.

this happen quite a bit. the police are quite ignorant of the firearms laws, at least the PA police are. I've heard many stories of people in PA openly carrying and police telling them that it is not allowed.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Well, unfortunately for you, the law is not in agreement with your beliefs. An officer in PA has absolutely no right to ask a person to not carry a gun openly or to not be on public property while doing so.

EDIT: Correction, the officer can ask all he wants, but no one need listen. He has no authority to demand such an action.

That's all I'm sayin'... just ask to possibly show some restraint. Like it or not, some people will not feel safe even if your gun does in fact make them safer. Some people may just find it unnecessary.

If I was in that situation, I probably would not care that she had it. I may think of it as unnecessary, but overall, I would most likely be indifferent.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Honestly, I wouldn't want some total stranger carrying a gun at my son's soccer game either. People are fucking loons, I don't trust perfect strangers with my son...I don't care if the government gave them a permit to carry. Leave your fucking gun at home.

Come make me.

If you don't like it you are free to move somewhere that doesn't offer that right to the people. Or you are free to try and take away the right. You will not succeed however.

Ooh, another internet tough guy. :laugh:

Not at all. Just saying, you can't tell me what to do, especially with the law on MY side, not yours. If you think otherwise you're free to demonstrate how I'm wrong.

Enough parents complain, she could be arrested for disturbing the peace. Even the PA Firearms Owners Association says so.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Honestly, I wouldn't want some total stranger carrying a gun at my son's soccer game either. People are fucking loons, I don't trust perfect strangers with my son...I don't care if the government gave them a permit to carry. Leave your fucking gun at home.

Honestly, if you look at the stats, the more law abiding citizens you have around you armed, the safer you are. You are least safe in areas in which the law abiding are disarmed.

This chick sounds like a loon. I'd question her sanity just for the decisions she made based on this news story.

I don't want her armed around me or my son.

Please explain, in detail, just what makes you think she's a loon from the article?

Who goes to a children's soccer game openly packing a pistol? WTF is wrong with this woman? She has had incidents in the past where people have expressed concern with her being armed in public. Hell, the judge who gave reinstated her license also questioned her judgement.

Sounds pretty looney to me.

She is acting in a legal manner. She never brandished the gun, nor threatened anyone.

I fail to see how legally carrying a weapon and exercising your constitutional rights makes one a loon.

And you fail at reading comprehension. The discrimination and continued hysteria occurred AFTER the soccer game hysteria.

Previous to that, she carried with no complaint.

The judge is acting just as you and others in this thread are acting: That the very act of being armed is somehow a threat to others. He is mistaken as are you.

The people who are wrong here are those who acted irrationally and caused a lot of fear over a woman who was legally armed, not threatening anyone and acting 100% lawfully.

Well, that is YOUR opinion. Not fact.

Um, no. It is fact. She was acting lawfully and threatened no one. The hometown news story that PofW posted proves this without a doubt.

Being threatened by her being armed is like being threatened by a body builder simply because he is bigger than you and can hurt you. It's absurd and irrational.

Her simply possessing the ability to harm you is NOT an overt threat. You are irrational for thinking it is.
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Honestly, I wouldn't want some total stranger carrying a gun at my son's soccer game either. People are fucking loons, I don't trust perfect strangers with my son...I don't care if the government gave them a permit to carry. Leave your fucking gun at home.

Come make me.

If you don't like it you are free to move somewhere that doesn't offer that right to the people. Or you are free to try and take away the right. You will not succeed however.

Ooh, another internet tough guy. :laugh:

Not at all. Just saying, you can't tell me what to do, especially with the law on MY side, not yours. If you think otherwise you're free to demonstrate how I'm wrong.

Enough parents complain, she could be arrested for disturbing the peace. Even the PA Firearms Owners Association says so.

Arrested, maybe. Charged? Highly unlikely.