Piracy (Extortion is what this actually is)

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
Sinking a tanker filled with 2 billion barrels of oil doesn't sound like a good idea...

source?

He means million. But you can read pretty much any news source about it.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
Sinking a tanker filled with 2 billion barrels of oil doesn't sound like a good idea...

Paying them sounds like a worse idea.

Contrary to the environuts, the earth can easily handle a spill like that with only short term effects. Believe it or not, oil is actually a natural substance.

And to be honest, I could give a rat's ass if Somolia's fishing industry is hurt at this point in time.

Yeah, lead and mercury are also natural substances. Hell, so's water, and that can be fatal. Sunlight can cause cancer. The wrong stuff in the wrong place and in the wrong quantities can be a bad thing, natural or not.

2 billion barrels also represents a lot of money, as does the supertanker itself.

Originally posted by: Amused
No ransom payments means a dead crew, therefore the crew can already be assumed dead.

If I were the crew, I'd rather die in an air strike than let the damn kidnappers kill me. At least we'd die fighting.

My plan ends with one dead crew. One airstrike and the extortion stops. Appeasment ends with what we have now.

I doubt that one airstrike will do much to discourage future attacks. They'll simply have to adapt, maybe selecting smaller targets which are easier to keep out of sight.

 

[richardycc]

these pirates are p*ssy..we need to show them some power, they will run like hell...just look at what they did when the Indian sunk their mothership few weeks ago.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
Sinking a tanker filled with 2 billion barrels of oil doesn't sound like a good idea...

source?

That would be a huge tanker. :Q

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
Shit man, send in a squad to get it back. I did that shit in Rainbow Six all the time.

"Threat Neutralized"

This was the first mission of Call of Duty 4!

 

[TheSlamma]

Makes me so glad rash decision people like Amused are not in control of anything but their flailing lives.

 

[Brainonska511]

You're better off sending in a SF team to take back the tanker. Destroying the ship with an air strike would result in an environmental mess and costs millions of dollars to clean up.

The best way to deter piracy is to increase naval patrols in the area, but the only way that's possible is if you have a multi-national force in the area - even that might not be enough in the short run just because its such a large swath of ocean to patrol.

 

[olds]

I recently descended on a rope on to a ship, guns a blazing. They could do it too.

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Makes me so glad rash decision people like Amused are not in control of anything but their flailing lives.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

We can't we just have another heli full of Indian Marine Commandos take 'em out like last time?

Edit: And why don't navies just shoot pirates on sight?

 

[JS80]

I feel like instead of paying them you give them the option "pay us or we will kill you, your women and your children" would be more effective.

Do these pirates have religious ideology? i.e. 72 virgins for martyrdom?

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: mugs
This was the first mission of Call of Duty 4!

You know, I thought I recalled it being from there as well, but I never played CoD4, so I couldn't be sure . I don't think R6 ever had one on a tanker per say, but there were a few ship fights (that could've been tankers... I can't honestly remember anymore).

 

[bignateyk]

No, the solution is to patrol the ocean around there with more destroyers, and arm the boats themselves.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Scouzer
You're an idiot. ugh

No, the idiots are the ones paying the ransom and appeasing the kidnappers, thus insuring more kidnappings and actually creating a profitable kidnapping industry.

I can say, without a doubt, that if I am ever kidnapped I do NOT want ransom paid. Period. If I lose my life while you take the life of the kidnappers, so be it. At least I died on my feet rather than my knees. But for fuck's sake take the life of the kidnappers. Attack them with all available force. Do NOT appease, placate or coddle them.

You can over complicate the matter with liberal "every life is precious" nonsense, just prolong and continue the problem, and whine about the lives of the crew all day long. None of that will stop the violence.

And yes, when you want to stop a fly from bothering you, you don't negotiate with it. You don't pay it. You don't talk to it. You don't plead with other flies to talk to it. You don't try and get the fly a better government because "it's not the fly's fault." You hit it with overwhelming force. You use a gigantic magazine (in proportion to the fly) and literally smash it without mercy.

Call me a caveman all day long, but I will bet you money my policy will put an immediate end to the kidnappings with LESS loss of life and property in the long run.

1) Nobody has any right to destory the ship other than the (private) owner. If they want to pay it's up to them - just as it would be in a kidnapping case where the family of the victim may choose to pay.

2) "every life is precious" is "nonsense"? Bet you wouldn't be saying that if the crew was American. It's only because they are Saudi, Fillipino, Eastern European and British that Americans consider their lives worthless - just like the friendly soldiers frequently killed by US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

3) What's wrong with just retaking the ship with special forces teams? Several navies patrol the seas in that area, including British and US navies, and in fact the Royal Marines killed some pirates just last week. Link. This works and doesn't destroy any ships. The only reason it doesn't happen more often is the rules of engagement state they are not allowed to fire at civilians until they are actually fired upon themselves.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Amused
Believe it or not, oil is actually a natural substance.

So are arsenic and uranium but that doesn't mean you should fill the sea with them...

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Scouzer
You're an idiot. ugh

No, the idiots are the ones paying the ransom and appeasing the kidnappers, thus insuring more kidnappings and actually creating a profitable kidnapping industry.

I can say, without a doubt, that if I am ever kidnapped I do NOT want ransom paid. Period. If I lose my life while you take the life of the kidnappers, so be it. At least I died on my feet rather than my knees. But for fuck's sake take the life of the kidnappers. Attack them with all available force. Do NOT appease, placate or coddle them.

You can over complicate the matter with liberal "every life is precious" nonsense, just prolong and continue the problem, and whine about the lives of the crew all day long. None of that will stop the violence.

And yes, when you want to stop a fly from bothering you, you don't negotiate with it. You don't pay it. You don't talk to it. You don't plead with other flies to talk to it. You don't try and get the fly a better government because "it's not the fly's fault." You hit it with overwhelming force. You use a gigantic magazine (in proportion to the fly) and literally smash it without mercy.

Call me a caveman all day long, but I will bet you money my policy will put an immediate end to the kidnappings with LESS loss of life and property in the long run.

1) Nobody has any right to destory the ship other than the (private) owner. If they want to pay it's up to them - just as it would be in a kidnapping case where the family of the victim may choose to pay.

2) "every life is precious" is "nonsense"? Bet you wouldn't be saying that if the crew was American. It's only because they are Saudi, Fillipino, Eastern European and British that Americans consider their lives worthless - just like the friendly soldiers frequently killed by US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

3) What's wrong with just retaking the ship with special forces teams? Several navies patrol the seas in that area, including British and US navies, and in fact the Royal Marines killed some pirates just last week. Link. This works and doesn't destroy any ships. The only reason it doesn't happen more often is the rules of engagement state they are not allowed to fire at civilians until they are actually fired upon themselves.

/me waits for Atheus to blame Israel/jews somehow

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Scouzer
You're an idiot. ugh

No, the idiots are the ones paying the ransom and appeasing the kidnappers, thus insuring more kidnappings and actually creating a profitable kidnapping industry.

I can say, without a doubt, that if I am ever kidnapped I do NOT want ransom paid. Period. If I lose my life while you take the life of the kidnappers, so be it. At least I died on my feet rather than my knees. But for fuck's sake take the life of the kidnappers. Attack them with all available force. Do NOT appease, placate or coddle them.

You can over complicate the matter with liberal "every life is precious" nonsense, just prolong and continue the problem, and whine about the lives of the crew all day long. None of that will stop the violence.

And yes, when you want to stop a fly from bothering you, you don't negotiate with it. You don't pay it. You don't talk to it. You don't plead with other flies to talk to it. You don't try and get the fly a better government because "it's not the fly's fault." You hit it with overwhelming force. You use a gigantic magazine (in proportion to the fly) and literally smash it without mercy.

Call me a caveman all day long, but I will bet you money my policy will put an immediate end to the kidnappings with LESS loss of life and property in the long run.

1) Nobody has any right to destory the ship other than the (private) owner. If they want to pay it's up to them - just as it would be in a kidnapping case where the family of the victim may choose to pay.

2) "every life is precious" is "nonsense"? Bet you wouldn't be saying that if the crew was American. It's only because they are Saudi, Fillipino, Eastern European and British that Americans consider their lives worthless - just like the friendly soldiers frequently killed by US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

3) What's wrong with just retaking the ship with special forces teams? Several navies patrol the seas in that area, including British and US navies, and in fact the Royal Marines killed some pirates just last week. Link. This works and doesn't destroy any ships. The only reason it doesn't happen more often is the rules of engagement state they are not allowed to fire at civilians until they are actually fired upon themselves.

/me waits for Atheus to blame Israel/jews somehow

What? They're clearly Somali... and I don't think I have ever mentioned Jews on ATOT... in any context...

 

[thereds]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: tk149
I Disagree. From what I've read, companies have been paying the ransoms and getting most of the crew back alive. We cannot assume the crew is already dead.

I think they should simply try to disable the ship (e.g. disable the rudder), wait for the fuel to run out, then capture the pirates when they try to run. If the pirates kill all the crew and scuttle the ship, you are no worse off than if you blew up the ship in the first place.

Once captured, the pirates should be tried for, er, piracy.

There definitely should be no ransom payments.

No ransom payments means a dead crew, therefore the crew can already be assumed dead.

If I were the crew, I'd rather die in an air strike than let the damn kidnappers kill me. At least we'd die fighting.

My plan ends with one dead crew. One airstrike and the extortion stops. Appeasment ends with what we have now.

The companies that run ships through there have insurance that pays for things like this. It's a part of their cost of doing business. They don't have insurance that gives crews back their lives.

The cost of a cleanup would also probably be more than the ransom.

Coverage during navigation through the Gulf of Aden and these pirate infested waters is excluded on your cargo policy. Buyback of coverage will be extremely expensive...almost economically unfeasible I imagine.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: Atheus
1) Nobody has any right to destory the ship other than the (private) owner. If they want to pay it's up to them - just as it would be in a kidnapping case where the family of the victim may choose to pay.

I can only somewhat agree with this, there is a crew aboard that ship that should have some say in this as well, but for the most part you are correct. But we are talking about what they should do not who should do it.

2) "every life is precious" is "nonsense"? Bet you wouldn't be saying that if the crew was American. It's only because they are Saudi, Fillipino, Eastern European and British that Americans consider their lives worthless - just like the friendly soldiers frequently killed by US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Of course the 'every life is precious' is nonsence. Those lives weren't precious before they were kidnapped. You didn't care about them then, why should you now?

3) What's wrong with just retaking the ship with special forces teams?

Sounds like a good idea to me. It is one of the good answers to this, as is sinking the ship, and useing chemical weapons to kill all biologicals leaving the ship to be recovered. Any answer to this that does not allow the pirates to get away is really a good answer.
Oh, and lets not forget the RIAA endorced method of fighting 'piracy'; randomly sueing boat owners in the general region.

 

[tfcmasta97]

Lmao wow I knew Amused was a dumbass, but what a dumbass.

Find me a country that says immediately execute the hostages.

Find me a country that will deal with 2 billion barrels of oil in the ocean.

Obviously if terrorists hold up a bank the reasonable thing to do is to blow up the building

 

[Lonyo]

No, we should support Ethiopia in a full scale invasion where all threats are shot on sight, and then allow them to annex the whole of Somalia and make it part of Ethiopia.
Gets rid of all the pirates and all the problems of a lack of government.

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
Hmm, good point, they are not pirates, they are extortionists. Just like the RIAA

I thought this was an RIAA thread before I opened it.

 

[PingSpike]

I agree with the notion that appeasement has resulted in increased pirate activity and exacerbated the situation. However, I don't think sinking the boat with an air strike, killing all the crew and causing an enviromental disaster is the correct course of action. You'll likely get a better outcome by doing nothing then that.

A seal team or pump the ship full of nerve gas or something to try and retake the ship is an ok idea.

After you have the ship back, bomb the crap out of that pirate village, arm merchant vessels and assign military patrols to the area that sink any pirate vessels on sight.

 

[Deadtrees]

Originally posted by: tfcmasta97
Lmao wow I knew Amused was a dumbass, but what a dumbass.

Find me a country that says immediately execute the hostages.

Find me a country that will deal with 2 billion barrels of oil in the ocean.

Obviously if terrorists hold up a bank the reasonable thing to do is to blow up the building

Russia. In fact, they kill hostages before they get kill by the others.

Anyway, I agree that OP is a what you said he is. What I find amazing is how he thinks those who don't agree with him are extreme tree huggers and liberals.

 

[Amused]

Funny how when others disagree with me I am a "dumbass" or a "caveman."

Look, guys, while you may think my plan to be brutal, it will fix the problem.

Though I'll capitulate to mandatory Seal team raids, but I have a feeling the extortionists have contingency plans for this that end with the hostages dead and/or the ship lost.