Piracy (Extortion is what this actually is)

[bharatwaja]

I think the OP is influenced by watching too much of 24 too many times over and over again. These decisions look easy on 24, real life->not so much.

 

[CKent]

The Somalia-area pirates are notorious for taking excellent care of the crews of vessels they hijack. Sinking the ships would be killing innocents. I can't abide by that.

Giving them all they want isn't the best idea either, of course...

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: bharatwaja
I think the OP is influenced by watching too much of 24 too many times over and over again. These decisions look easy on 24, real life->not so much.

Actually, no. It's from history. I have never watched 24 and the teasers for it looked stupid.

And, like I said, I'll go for the seal team option instead. I am just not convinced that this option will not end the same way as mine. But hey, it's worth a try if you're willing to risk the seals.

 

[Baked]

Agreed. The police should definitely nuke the bank if the OP is taken as hostage in a bank robbery, it's the way of the golden rule.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Amused
Look, guys, while you may think my plan to be brutal, it will fix the problem.

Yea, in the same way that amputation above the knee would fix a fungal toenail infection.

Originally posted by: Amused
Actually, no. It's from history.

What history? I'd point to the Iranian Embassy siege as an example of special forces going in and saving all the hostages. When did anyone ever blow up a building/ship/whatever just to avoid paying a ransom?

I have never watched 24 and the teasers for it looked stupid.

You'd love it.

 

[Farang]

How does somebody spouting off an idiotic plan to dump 2 billion barrels of oil into the ocean end up with 3 pages worth of dialogue?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Amused
Look, guys, while you may think my plan to be brutal, it will fix the problem.

Yea, in the same way that amputation above the knee would fix a fungal toenail infection.

Originally posted by: Amused
Actually, no. It's from history.

What history? I'd point to the Iranian Embassy siege as an example of special forces going in and saving all the hostages. When did anyone ever blow up a building/ship/whatever just to avoid paying a ransom?

I have never watched 24 and the teasers for it looked stupid.

You'd love it.

Actually, if you were going to use an example the Israeli raid at Entebbe would be best.

But if you check it out, the vast majority of hostage raids end very badly.

As I said, I'd go for the SEAL team option.

But what I would never do is pay. And the present policy is to do just that.

 

[Farang]

I see how now.. it is too tempting to rip it apart.

1) Pirates would simply contact ship owners discreetly, ship owners would not tell authorities for fear of having their ships blown up.
2) Many times hostages are treated well and released once ransom is paid. Sort of like a cop throwing a grenade at a bank robber who has taken a hostage.
3) 2 billion barrels of oil in the ocean.. god you're a moron I should just stop here

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Farang
How does somebody spouting off an idiotic plan to dump 2 billion barrels of oil into the ocean end up with 3 pages worth of dialogue?

Probably because I'm just slightly less idiotic than the folks who think a tanker holds 3 billion barrels.

 

[Farang]

I'm not sitting here musing about plans to blow up tankers.. I just used the number I saw in the thread. However many thousand barrels, it is a helluva lot of oil

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Farang
I see how now.. it is too tempting to rip it apart.

1) Pirates would simply contact ship owners discreetly, ship owners would not tell authorities for fear of having their ships blown up.
2) Many times hostages are treated well and released once ransom is paid. Sort of like a cop throwing a grenade at a bank robber who has taken a hostage.
3) 2 billion barrels of oil in the ocean.. god you're a moron I should just stop here

1. Could never happen. Secrets like that cannot be kept.

2. So what? We should continue paying them and let them start branching out to other areas of the world until no one is safe on the seas? Great plan. How well they treat the hostages is moot. What they will do to the hostages and ship if no ransom is paid is the ONLY thing that matters.

3. You're still thinking a tanker can hold billions of barrels but now edited to 2 instead of 3 billion? Okay...

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: Farang
How does somebody spouting off an idiotic plan to dump 2 billion barrels of oil into the ocean end up with 3 pages worth of dialogue?

Well first we had to argue about how much oil a tanker holds, and then we had to argue about the insurability of the ship, then a short detour through how to kill a fly (we agreed that giant newspaper works better then sledgehammers, but either of those work better then a dollar) which became a referendum on who is a bigger idiot (which we seem to have tabled for now - although I'm still hoping to win it with this post) then what countries kill hostages with out negotiating. Now that you are all caught up, care to actually contribute?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Farang
I'm not sitting here musing about plans to blow up tankers.. I just used the number I saw in the thread. However many thousand barrels, it is a helluva lot of oil

Yeah, and it won't destroy the earth. It will cause a temporary upset in local fishing. That's it.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: Farang
I see how now.. it is too tempting to rip it apart.

1) Pirates would simply contact ship owners discreetly, ship owners would not tell authorities for fear of having their ships blown up.
2) Many times hostages are treated well and released once ransom is paid. Sort of like a cop throwing a grenade at a bank robber who has taken a hostage.
3) 2 billion barrels of oil in the ocean.. god you're a moron I should just stop here

So where in your plan is the deterrent to prevent the pirates from kidnapping future victims for ransom? To keep on paying the ransom does not solve the problem, it will only allow the problem to continue...that is unless you think pirates holding victims for ransom isn't a problem...

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: Farang
How does somebody spouting off an idiotic plan to dump 2 billion barrels of oil into the ocean end up with 3 pages worth of dialogue?

Well first we had to argue about how much oil a tanker holds, and then we had to argue about the insurability of the ship, then a short detour through how to kill a fly (we agreed that giant newspaper works better then sledgehammers, but either of those work better then a dollar) which became a referendum on who is a bigger idiot (which we seem to have tabled for now - although I'm still hoping to win it with this post) then what countries kill hostages with out negotiating. Now that you are all caught up, care to actually contribute?

Yes. Amused is saying I said 3 billion. I never said 3, I said 2 consistently. I just copied whatever one of the first responders said because I wasn't giving much deep thought in rejecting this dumb idea.

 

[TallBill]

Why sink it when we have special teams like Seal team 6 who specialize in taking down hostage takers. If pirates kept getting killed instead of paid, less people would want to be a pirate.

That or start arming merchant ships. Wouldn't take much really, less then what 99.9% of you would think.

But sinking a ship is just fucking stupid.

 

[oddyager]

Gonna have to agree with some of the posts. Airstrike would have been overly excessive. Send in the SEALS plus support and retake that ship Rainbow Six style.

 

[dguy6789]

I agree with Amused. The very fact that piracy still exists proves that how we deal with it isn't working right. People have a chance to live, but piracy continues. It is pretty simple really. If pirates knew they would die if they attempted to hijack a ship, they wouldn't hijack a ship. If piracy ceased, people wouldn't be victims of it anymore.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: Farang
How does somebody spouting off an idiotic plan to dump 2 billion barrels of oil into the ocean end up with 3 pages worth of dialogue?

Well first we had to argue about how much oil a tanker holds, and then we had to argue about the insurability of the ship, then a short detour through how to kill a fly (we agreed that giant newspaper works better then sledgehammers, but either of those work better then a dollar) which became a referendum on who is a bigger idiot (which we seem to have tabled for now - although I'm still hoping to win it with this post) then what countries kill hostages with out negotiating. Now that you are all caught up, care to actually contribute?

Yes. Amused is saying I said 3 billion. I never said 3, I said 2 consistently. I just copied whatever one of the first responders said because I wasn't giving much deep thought in rejecting this dumb idea.

No, what is dumb is even considering how well the kidnappers treat their victims (when ransom is paid, of course). The ONLY thing to be considered is what happens to them if no ransom is paid. Period.

What is dumb is paying kidnappers or even trying to negotiate with them.

Appeasment always ends up in more attacks. It only makes them bolder.

Congrats. Your plan is why we are here today.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: TallBill
Why sink it when we have special teams like Seal team 6 who specialize in taking down hostage takers. If pirates kept getting killed instead of paid, less people would want to be a pirate.

That or start arming merchant ships. Wouldn't take much really, less then what 99.9% of you would think.

But sinking a ship is just fucking stupid.

Okay, okay. I already admitted that a SEAL team would be a better option.

My first thought was that a SEAL team would end up with the hostages dead and ship destroyed anyhow, so why risk the team? But I guess people will feel better if we try, so go for it.

Just for fuck's sake stop negotiating with the kidnappers and worse still, stop paying them.

 

[Farang]

I don't have a plan. Anti-piracy is not my field, neither is it yours, so it is probably best we stay out of it. Or else we end up blowing up supertankers for no reason.

Your tenacity makes me think you're just fucking with everyone.. if so, well played

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Farang
I don't have a plan. Anti-piracy is not my field, neither is it yours, so it is probably best we stay out of it. Or else we end up blowing up supertankers for no reason.

Your tenacity makes me think you're just fucking with everyone.. if so, well played

Now now now, I did capitulate and change my plan to a SEAL team attack rather than just sinking the ship. Though I am not convinced that both options will not end much the same.

Anti-kidnapping/extortion is very easy. Never pay and never negotiate. It really is that simple.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: TallBill
Why sink it when we have special teams like Seal team 6 who specialize in taking down hostage takers. If pirates kept getting killed instead of paid, less people would want to be a pirate.

That or start arming merchant ships. Wouldn't take much really, less then what 99.9% of you would think.

But sinking a ship is just fucking stupid.

Okay, okay. I already admitted that a SEAL team would be a better option.

My first thought was that a SEAL team would end up with the hostages dead and ship destroyed anyhow, so why risk the team? But I guess people will feel better if we try, so go for it.

Just for fuck's sake stop negotiating with the kidnappers and worse still, stop paying them.

Why risk the team? Because that's their job. They knew fully well exactly what they were getting into. While of course I want none of them to suffer so much as a scratch, this ship situation is EXACTLY the reason that they even exist. Plus I bet if you asked every single member, they'd want to go.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: TallBill
Why sink it when we have special teams like Seal team 6 who specialize in taking down hostage takers. If pirates kept getting killed instead of paid, less people would want to be a pirate.

That or start arming merchant ships. Wouldn't take much really, less then what 99.9% of you would think.

But sinking a ship is just fucking stupid.

Okay, okay. I already admitted that a SEAL team would be a better option.

My first thought was that a SEAL team would end up with the hostages dead and ship destroyed anyhow, so why risk the team? But I guess people will feel better if we try, so go for it.

Just for fuck's sake stop negotiating with the kidnappers and worse still, stop paying them.

Why risk the team? Because that's their job. They knew fully well exactly what they were getting into. While of course I want none of them to suffer so much as a scratch, this ship situation is EXACTLY the reason that they even exist. Plus I bet if you asked every single member, they'd want to go.

Oh I know. I was just weighjing the outcomes and didn't see much of a chance of it being very different between the two options. Ya know?

But I do understand that trying a rescue will make people feel better about it. I tend to not think about feelings and just weigh odds.

 

[SirStev0]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
Sinking a tanker filled with 2 billion barrels of oil doesn't sound like a good idea...

Paying them sounds like a worse idea.

Contrary to the environuts, the earth can easily handle a spill like that with only short term effects. Believe it or not, oil is actually a natural substance.

And to be honest, I could give a rat's ass if Somolia's fishing industry is hurt at this point in time.

You are really saying that an Oil Spill that would shadow the Exxon Valdez is worth it.

Killing of thousands of organisms, destroying countless environments, basically starving thousands of people while wiping out local economy, wasting billions of barrels of fossil fuels, all just to prove you have the biggest penis.

You have some serious problems.