Petition to make USA Metric

[Imaginer]

Homebrewing has gotten me to covert to metric. It all started with hops.

it's a lot harder to find a scale that is accurate in hundreds of a ounce then it is grams.

Measuring .25 ounces is a lot harder to do then 7 grams when scales simply don't seem to be accurate at ounces. I've tried 3 scales, in grams they are accurate, but I can use ounces, put in .25 and click grams and get 8, take it back down to 7, click ounces and still get .25.

In the end I just do everything metric. It's easier to calculate modifications, percentages, and volumes.

.25 ounces is 1/4th of an ounce. Pour out half an ounce and half that again. No need to eyeball graduations on a container.

Weight wise, if you assume uniformity in material and density, dividing that by two halves works too.

 

[kevinsbane]

Good luck with that, a second is based on the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom.

Anywhere, anytime?

You do realise that harping on the definition of the metre is really silly for someone who holds your position? Besides, Imperial defines a second the same way.

And yes, if you really need that precise definition of a metre, if you spend enough effort (that includes money), you can do so anytime, anywhere you want, independently. That was the point of defining the second and metre the way they are. Good thing no one but scientists need such precise metres, and good thing those scientists happen to have the resources to do it.

 

[Train]

You do realise that harping on the definition of the metre is really silly for someone who holds your position? Besides, Imperial defines a second the same way.

And yes, if you really need that precise definition of a metre, if you spend enough effort (that includes money), you can do so anytime, anywhere you want, independently. That was the point of defining the second and metre the way they are. Good thing no one but scientists need such precise metres, and good thing those scientists happen to have the resources to do it.

You do realize I was responding to a guy suggesting the only way to know the definition of a foot was to chop a certain person's foot off?

 

[CLite]

The USA *is* in metric.

The military uses kilometers for navigtion,

Go to any science lab, metric. Go to any factory, metric. Pretty much every container in the super market has metric units on it, next to respective imperial, some times ONLY the mtric unit is used.

SI is mostly used in day to day, non scientific stuff. The weather, gas in your car, your height. If you really want to force people to change, you have some kind of issue.

No, our entire engineering base uses imperial. Nuclear/fossil fuel plants, chemical plants, refineries, upstream oil drilling, etc. Our engineering codes & standards have slowly been adding in properties/emperical equations in SI, but this has been to broaden their wide-spread appeal as opposed to trying to change the behavior of American engineers.

In our engineering classes in college we used SI constantly, in industry it's almost never used. When we work with international clients we switch to SI. As long as you are organized and careful the conversions are all easy and straight forward. I don't have an intuitative feel for what 100MPa is but I can use it in calculations easily enough.

 

[kevinsbane]

You do realize I was responding to a guy suggesting the only way to know the definition of a foot was to chop a certain person's foot off?

Yes, I certainly do.

No, our entire engineering base uses imperial. Nuclear/fossil fuel plants, chemical plants, refineries, upstream oil drilling, etc. Our engineering codes & standards have slowly been adding in properties/emperical equations in SI, but this has been to broaden their wide-spread appeal as opposed to trying to change the behavior of American engineers.

That's too bad :-/ I'd hope you guys switch sooner rather than later.

 

[sourceninja]

.25 ounces is 1/4th of an ounce. Pour out half an ounce and half that again. No need to eyeball graduations on a container.

Weight wise, if you assume uniformity in material and density, dividing that by two halves works too.

You try that with hops, there is air space, it can not be measured by volume, only by weight/mass. Measuring by volume is a recipe for disaster. Technically, I should also be measuring my water by weight not by volume, but I'm not that anal.

 

[WelshBloke]

.25 ounces is 1/4th of an ounce. Pour out half an ounce and half that again. No need to eyeball graduations on a container.

Weight wise, if you assume uniformity in material and density, dividing that by two halves works too.

What you are doing there is eyeballing though.

Halving something by eye, then halving that again by eye.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

The metric system is only superior due to a few conversions, it isn't more accurate. Those arguing that it is more accurate are stupid. You can multiply or divide any length, weight, or volume to any degree of accuracy required. This thread is 4 pages of dumb.

 

[WelshBloke]

The metric system is only superior due to a few conversions, it isn't more accurate. Those arguing that it is more accurate are stupid. You can multiply or divide any length, weight, or volume to any degree of accuracy required. This thread is 4 pages of dumb.

Of course they are both accurate, you can express measurements accurately in any designation you want even imaginary ones used only by yourself.

The point is that metric measurements are a damn sight easier to work with.
Imperial measurements always end up being a cludge of clashing units and non complimentary methods.

Do you use 12 1/4 inches or 12.25 inches? When is it acceptable to use decimal fractions of an inch and when standard fractions?

Working out volumes or areas in imperial measurements in imperial is a pain in the arse compared to metric.

Metric is just a damn sight more logical and a damn sight nicer to work with.

 

[CLite]

That's too bad :-/ I'd hope you guys switch sooner rather than later.

Why? It makes absolutely no difference on day to day life, nor any difference in the engineering disciplines. We have led the world in designing heavy industry equipment and processes just fine over the last century using imperial units.

Most engineers can do all their work in SI or imperial, there are far greater challenges in engineering than unit conversions. You just have to pick a set to be consistent with when starting any given job. The Nasa failure is an example of idiotic engineering, it can happen just as easily without differences in units.

I really don't care if we were to use SI or not, but imperial is not hurting us in any way.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Of course they are both accurate, you can express measurements accurately in any designation you want even imaginary ones used only by yourself.

The point is that metric measurements are a damn sight easier to work with.
Imperial measurements always end up being a cludge of clashing units and non complimentary methods.

Do you use 12 1/4 inches or 12.25 inches? When is it acceptable to use decimal fractions of an inch and when standard fractions?

Working out volumes or areas in imperial measurements in imperial is a pain in the arse compared to metric.

Metric is just a damn sight more logical and a damn sight nicer to work with.

Not in all things.

My post was addressed to the numerous posters in here claiming that it's somehow magically more accurate. I am quite aware of the virtues you described, and even PREFACED MY FUCKING POINT WITH THAT.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
In the states we say feet and miles but nobody knows the relationship. Almost nobody knows how long a mile is. They definitely don't know the relationship between yards and a mile. It's just not reasonable to expect people to know it since the numbers are so awkward.

I've seen this said a couple of times.

I guess not many people here ran track, or if they did it was after we switched to metric.

The 1 lap race was called the "440" (in yards)

The 2 lap race was called the "880"

4 laps = 1 mile. So, it's 1,760 yards.

Not sure that it matters, people just say "a mile and a half" etc. I've never heard anybody say a mile and so-n-so yards. Odometers in cars also have us frequently using tenths of miles in conversation/directions.

Edit: haha. Just say this:

Almost nobody knows that a mile is 5280 feet or close to 5000 feet. Go down to your local track and ask people how long a 1/4 mile is in feet. They don't know that either and they're at the track. Yards? Forget it.

I suppose I'm claiming the opposite. But we don't run the 440 or the 880 any more AFAIK. I thought it was now metric so we have the 400 and the 800 races.

Fern

 

[WelshBloke]

Not in all things.

My post was addressed to the numerous posters in here claiming that it's somehow magically more accurate. I am quite aware of the virtues you described, and even PREFACED MY FUCKING POINT WITH THAT.

If something is easier to work with its likely to be more accurate on a practical level as there's less likelyhood of errors.


AND THERES NO NEED TO SHOUT MR STROPPY.

Not sure that it matters, people just say "a mile and a half" etc. I've never heard anybody say a mile and so-n-so yards...

That's because it's a pain in the arse to express distance like that in imperial, if we used metric we probably would. It's a failing of the imperial system that makes us do that.

 

[Fern]

#3 is the single most annoying part of dealing with US customers.

ISO date format (I think its iso 8601) is YEAR-MO-DA, in descending order of significance. I've never ever understood why anyone would want to have the day in the middle thereby losing the "bigger number is always farther in the future" benefit of descending order. (not that I have to sort lists that only recognize the number anymore) It is a huge pet peeve of mine though, either write out the words or use the standard.

It stems from how you speak it: March 14th, 1983. No one says 1983, March 14th, or 14th March, 1983.

Yes, I think it stems from how we speak it.

While I find the European and military way much more logical when written, I find it more natural to say "March 15th" (nobody bothers with the year).

But living in Europe, in this case mostly France, we would say it 15th March (albeit in French, of course).

So, I've long thought this stems from the differences in language. E.g., in French, Spanish and Italian people say "look at the car red". In English we say "look at the red car". Here again, I find the 'car red' more logical but we who speak English are conditioned say (and think) "red car'.

As red modifies car, in dates the 15th modifies the month of March.

Fern

 

[Fern]

-snip-
That's because it's a pain in the arse to express distance like that in imperial, if we used metric we probably would. It's a failing of the imperial system that makes us do that.

IDK, I'm accustomed to both.

I've never said "1 km and 400 meters". If my odometer read 1.4 I'd say that, otherwise I'd probably just say "about a kilometer and a half".

Maybe I'm unusual, but I have no real problem converting km's into miles. For many years I would run 5k and 10K races, but when training I tended to think in miles (since that's what we ran in track). I got very used to the fact that 10k = 6.2 miles. So when driving around in Europe where distances we expressed in km's I just hit it by 60% to get a good feel for how far I needed to go.

Fern

 

[Murloc]

germans don't invert the date but they still say adjectives before nouns just like English people.
I think it's just how you say dates. In school I learned that you can say it either way in English, but I like "the 14th of March" more (out of the mental structure I give to dates).

 

[Chaotic42]

You can't do math, so everyone else should change?

"A pint is a pound the world around" - try that with your precious base 10 system.

One liter of water has a mass of (very close to) 1 kilogram.

 

[pmv]

Yes, I think it stems from how we speak it.

While I find the European and military way much more logical when written, I find it more natural to say "March 15th" (nobody bothers with the year).

But living in Europe, in this case mostly France, we would say it 15th March (albeit in French, of course).

So, I've long thought this stems from the differences in language. E.g., in French, Spanish and Italian people say "look at the car red". In English we say "look at the red car". Here again, I find the 'car red' more logical but we who speak English are conditioned say (and think) "red car'.

As red modifies car, in dates the 15th modifies the month of March.

Fern

The fatal flaw in that theory is that in the English-speaking world outside of the US, including in, er, England, we also more often put the day first, i.e. 15th of March. So it can't really be from differences between English and non-English languages.

Though, as an aside, I wonder how other languages deal with it, e.g. Japanese or Hindi for example? I can't believe the US is the only country in the world that puts the name of the month first.

 

[pmv]

IDK, I'm accustomed to both.

I've never said "1 km and 400 meters". If my odometer read 1.4 I'd say that, otherwise I'd probably just say "about a kilometer and a half".

Maybe I'm unusual, but I have no real problem converting km's into miles. For many years I would run 5k and 10K races, but when training I tended to think in miles (since that's what we ran in track). I got very used to the fact that 10k = 6.2 miles. So when driving around in Europe where distances we expressed in km's I just hit it by 60% to get a good feel for how far I needed to go.

Fern

I can convert km into miles quite easily, its converting yards into miles that gives me trouble!
It seems as if the two measures (yards and miles) are totally unrelated and originated separately. Apparently (I only just read this) the number of yards in a mile used to vary in different parts of Britain, till they standardised it (so why the heck did they chose such an awkward number as the standard?)

 

[pmv]

I've seen this said a couple of times.

I guess not many people here ran track, or if they did it was after we switched to metric.

The 1 lap race was called the "440" (in yards)

The 2 lap race was called the "880"

4 laps = 1 mile. So, it's 1,760 yards.

Not sure that it matters, people just say "a mile and a half" etc. I've never heard anybody say a mile and so-n-so yards. Odometers in cars also have us frequently using tenths of miles in conversation/directions.

Edit: haha. Just say this:



I suppose I'm claiming the opposite. But we don't run the 440 or the 880 any more AFAIK. I thought it was now metric so we have the 400 and the 800 races.

Fern

So you ran a 2 furlong race and a 4 furlong one? I know horse races use furlongs, didn't know human ones did, but it makes sense.

 

[GasX]

I am going to get me a metric six pack

 

[gorcorps]

I am going to get me a metric six pack

42 metric beers eh?

 

[sdifox]

I have nothing useful to add to this thread so I will offer this personal anecdote.

When I arrived in Toronto, I figured beef would be more expensive than in Argentina. So when I was in a supermarket, I looked at the meat counter and thought the numbers looked similar to the once in Buenos Aires. Then my aunt explained to me they are per pound, while back in Buenos Aires, it was per kilogram.

 

[KillerCharlie]

Converting from one set of numbers is easy.

Either you're too stupid to be able to do that and want someone to make all the numbers the same for you, or you actually use these units at your job and find it simple to convert.

Who really cares what units are used? Even if the US government does things in SI the massive engineering base will still use imperial.

I use imperial at work (aerospace company that probably has around 50,000 engineers). When someone wants something in SI you just multiple by a fraction. Wow, that's hard.

We just measure everything in inches, not feet or fractions of inches. If something is 5' 3 1/4" we just call it 63.25"... really, it's not that hard.

 

[randomrogue]

I have nothing useful to add to this thread so I will offer this personal anecdote.

When I arrived in Toronto, I figured beef would be more expensive than in Argentina. So when I was in a supermarket, I looked at the meat counter and thought the numbers looked similar to the once in Buenos Aires. Then my aunt explained to me they are per pound, while back in Buenos Aires, it was per kilogram.

I can offer you a similar anecdote. When I moved to Europe you buy candy in hectograms. I didn't realize this at first. So it was very confusing. You have to be damn careful or you'll spend a king's ransom since the prices regularly shift between half price and full price. I haven't figured out the pattern yet but one day....one day!