Petition to make USA Metric

[randomrogue]

Just out of curiosity, how do you order lumber in metric countries.

If I go the the lumber yard looking to by some 8' 2x4s, and some 4'x8' plywood, what do I ask for?

I was just at the lumber yard. First time in Europe so it was a bit bizarre.

It's pretty simple really. Everything is in millimeters. Price is by the meter.

 

[DrPizza]

A guy like DrPizza would probably have encountered this several times. He does pizza parties as I recall.

I've made so much pizza that I just do it by eye. Last time I made dough was at a pizza dinner fundraiser. People just stared when I poured 25 pounds of flour into a mixer (I had already done a batch with 50 pounds of flour & didn't have enough dough) and then reached into a container of shortening with my bare hand & scooped out a larger that baseball chunk of shortening, then poured the other ingredients into my hand & dumped them into the mixer. Water = just pouring in water til it looked right, from an unfamiliar container. The dough came out perfect.

 

[kevinsbane]

<-- Engineer, who prefers to start working on Imperial unit jobs by converting the available data to metric, and then go on my way with that pleasant system of units.

Sounds like every engineer that I've ever had the pleasure of meeting

 

[StinkyPinky]

Why is the Metric system so much better? Why not binary?

Seriously, why is some system based on 10's so much better? Because people can't do math?

Because it's all logical and base 10 which is what humans are naturally good at.

kilometer, meter, centimeter, millimeter, micrometer, nanometer etc all lead on to each other. 1km is 1000 meters for example.

There's a reason everyone uses it, including the science community.

 

[StinkyPinky]

I think you need to look at your picture again

In fact you can even go 5.25 or 5.125 etc in the Imperial system. Try measuring 5.25cm in metric

52.5 mm or 52500 um.

 

[StinkyPinky]

It stems from how you speak it: March 14th, 1983. No one says 1983, March 14th, or 14th March, 1983.

Well apart from everyone else in the world...

 

[sourn]

I can't say I really care, but I have no issues with this either. In fact it probably would be for the best.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Because it's all logical and base 10 which is what humans are naturally good at.

Until it comes to quarters or thirds. Sure, all our numerology is based on base 10, but seriously, is there anything worse than thirds in base 10? "Oh, so it's 0.33 and then that 3 just repeats forever? Well, fuck it, I'm just gonna go drink this bottle of ouzo." And quarters aren't great either; we have to go the hundredths decimal to sort that nonsense out. And seeing as how a whole shitload of our thinking comes to breaking things in half (easy), quarters (slightly less easy) and thirds (absolutely awful), I'm thinking base 10 is just kind of a "best available" rather than an "absolutely perfect and you're a fool for disagreeing" arrangement.

 

[DrPizza]

Until it comes to quarters or thirds. Sure, all our numerology is based on base 10, but seriously, is there anything worse than thirds in base 10? "Oh, so it's 0.33 and then that 3 just repeats forever? Well, fuck it, I'm just gonna go drink this bottle of ouzo." And quarters aren't great either; we have to go the hundredths decimal to sort that nonsense out. And seeing as how a whole shitload of our thinking comes to breaking things in half (easy), quarters (slightly less easy) and thirds (absolutely awful), I'm thinking base 10 is just kind of a "best available" rather than an "absolutely perfect and you're a fool for disagreeing" arrangement.

1/10 = .1
1/9 = .11111
1/8 = .125
1/7 = harder to memorize repeating decimal
1/6 = .1666...
1/5 = .2
1/4 = .25
1/3 = .333...
1/2 = .5

Based on your logic, maybe we should use base 7, since the fractions would be easier?

 

[skimple]

Because it's all logical and base 10 which is what humans are naturally good at.

kilometer, meter, centimeter, millimeter, micrometer, nanometer etc all lead on to each other. 1km is 1000 meters for example.

There's a reason everyone uses it, including the science community.

Nonsense. Its a convention that you grew up with. If your parents/schools had used base 2, you would say that is intuitive. We have 2 hands, 2 eyes, 2 ears, 2 legs, etc... Why is 10 fingers "naturally" the standard? I would argue that's its easier to think in "halfs and doubles" than in tenths.

I really could care less one way or the other. I've used both, plus when you get into electricity you get to work with Joules and Columbs and other arbitrary, empirical scales. Its really just a frame of reference discussion.

If you want a good read, check out "Here's Looking at Euclid" by Alex Bellos. It really gets into number systems, number tricks, the history of math. He starts out by referencing an isolated tribe that doesn't use numbers. They have concepts/words for "one", "two", and "many". They don't break things into 10ths, or quarters, naturally. There is no "intuitive" frame of reference. They use whatever works for them.

 

[pmv]

Nonsense. Its a convention that you grew up with. If your parents/schools had used base 2, you would say that is intuitive. We have 2 hands, 2 eyes, 2 ears, 2 legs, etc... Why is 10 fingers "naturally" the standard? I would argue that's its easier to think in "halfs and doubles" than in tenths.

Partly true. But imperial isn't consistently base-anything. I can never, ever, remember the number of yards in a mile, for example, and its a very awkward number to work with.

At the level of feet and inches I agree that basing it on 12 works well enough, it has more divisors than base 10 metric. But that advantage seems to be lost once you start talking about miles (I think there are furlongs and chains and rods and other weird stuff at intermediate level, which maybe makes it more logical? But who remembers what those are?)

 

[SagaLore]

1/10 = .1
1/9 = .11111
1/8 = .125
1/7 = harder to memorize repeating decimal
1/6 = .1666...
1/5 = .2
1/4 = .25
1/3 = .333...
1/2 = .5

Based on your logic, maybe we should use base 7, since the fractions would be easier?

Would it?

How about base 21, so both 7 and 3 have clean results.

 

[Train]

I can never, ever, remember the number of yards in a mile, for example,

Why would you need to? You make it sound like this is a conversion you have to do on a regular basis.

The only thing americans use Yards for is football fields or maybe buying carpet.

 

[Train]

A lot of people seem to be confused on what a "base" is.

Inches to feet is not a "base". 12 still uses base 10 as the number system. If it were base 12, twelve inches would actually be "10" (with eleven being something like "B")

 

[pmv]

A lot of people seem to be confused on what a "base" is.

Inches to feet is not a "base". 12 still uses base 10 as the number system. If it were base 12, twelve inches would actually be "10" (with eleven being something like "B")

I disagree, I would argue it is at least partly a base. You are confusing the concept of a base with the specifics of the particular notation used to represent it.

7' 11" is just a different notation for saying 7B. It still functions as base 12 in effect, you just use the symbol 10" instead of A and 11" instead of B. It behaves in the same way when you perform operations on it, e.g. adding two lengths both given in feet and inches. Of course its not consistently base 12 because you don't have another unit being 12 feet and so on.

 

[pmv]

Why would you need to? You make it sound like this is a conversion you have to do on a regular basis.

The only thing americans use Yards for is football fields or maybe buying carpet.

In science and engineering its not exactly unknown to have to move from smaller units to larger ones. Are you saying Americans never do any of that?

Even when walking a long distance I might want to work out, if only for my own amusement, what proportion of the distance I have covered.

 

[skimple]

A lot of people seem to be confused on what a "base" is.

Inches to feet is not a "base". 12 still uses base 10 as the number system. If it were base 12, twelve inches would actually be "10" (with eleven being something like "B")

Alright, fair enough. Its not really base 10, - it's "based on 10's".

 

[Train]

In science and engineering its not exactly unknown to have to move from smaller units to larger ones. Are you saying Americans never do any of that?

yards to miles is something you simply wouldnt see. Look at any of the million map apps, they use decimal miles. Google maps doesn't say "20 miles 450 yars to your destination, it simply says 20.3 miles to you destination"

meters to miles maybe, as a runner I have competed in both metric (400, 800, 1500, 1600, 3200, "5k", 10k") races and imperial (1 mile, 5 mile, 10 mile, marathon)

Even when walking a long distance I might want to work out, if only for my own amusement, what proportion of the distance I have covered.

Like I said above, you would use decimal miles. No one says, "I ran 2 miles and 880 yards today!" they say "I ran 2 and a half miles"

If you were in the fully metric mindset, you wouldnt say "I ran 5 kilometers and 250 meters", you would say "I ran 5 and a quarter kilometers", or "5 point two five k"

 

[randomrogue]

yards to miles is something you simply wouldnt see. Look at any of the million map apps, they use decimal miles. Google maps doesn't say "20 miles 450 yars to your destination, it simply says 20.3 miles to you destination"

meters to miles maybe, as a runner I have competed in both metric (400, 800, 1500, 1600, 3200, "5k", 10k") races and imperial (1 mile, 5 mile, 10 mile, marathon)


Like I said above, you would use decimal miles. No one says, "I ran 2 miles and 880 yards today!" they say "I ran 2 and a half miles"

If you were in the fully metric mindset, you wouldnt say "I ran 5 kilometers and 250 meters", you would say "I ran 5 and a quarter kilometers", or "5 point two five k"

So with metric we express distances in meters, kilometers, and then in 10^4. Each language has it's own word for the 10^4 or 10 kilometers. It's very basic. So if I want someone to go down the street, it's 300 meters. If I want someone to go get me a liter of milk it's 2 km. If I need someone to go to the next town it's 20 km or in layman terms 2 "10^4ths".

In the states we say feet and miles but nobody knows the relationship. Almost nobody knows how long a mile is. They definitely don't know the relationship between yards and a mile. It's just not reasonable to expect people to know it since the numbers are so awkward. However in Europe it's very basic since everything is base 10 and we can just move the decimal point.

 

[nehalem256]

So with metric we express distances in meters, kilometers, and then in 10^4. Each language has it's own word for the 10^4 or 10 kilometers. It's very basic. So if I want someone to go down the street, it's 300 meters. If I want someone to go get me a liter of milk it's 2 km. If I need someone to go to the next town it's 20 km or in layman terms 2 "10^4ths".

In the states we say feet and miles but nobody knows the relationship. Almost nobody knows how long a mile is. They definitely don't know the relationship between yards and a mile. It's just not reasonable to expect people to know it since the numbers are so awkward. However in Europe it's very basic since everything is base 10 and we can just move the decimal point.

And how often in your daily life do you find yourself converting between meters and kilometers?

 

[WelshBloke]

And how often in your daily life do you find yourself converting between meters and kilometers?

Personally all the time. Even if its just giving directions

 

[BurnItDwn]

The old stubborn idiots of imperial measurements are dying off. Give them another 20 years or so and they will pretty much all be gone and then we can fix it.

 

[el-Capitan]

As a German who has spent the past 12 years in imperial UK and USA, I refuse to adopt the imperial measurement (apart the mile for driving). I don't know what the conversion fl.oz to oz is, I don't know how many feet to a mile and I still don't know my height in feet and inches (I need to pull out my DL for that).

I have been faring very well with this, though my NJ friends like to call me out with things like "a gallon, thats like 1.5m of milk, right?". haha

 

[kevinsbane]

And how often in your daily life do you find yourself converting between meters and kilometers?

Strangely enough, quite often.

And it's not a conversion so much as glancing at the distance values given and knowing both values (metres and kilometres) without even thinking about it. I just switch between units depending on which is more convenient for whichever situation. Is it 0.2km away? I'll talk about 200 metres. Is it 5800 metres away? I'll say 5.8 (or 6) km. Rather convenient.

I just know that whether I get a construction drawing in Imperial and I'm trying to figure out where something is, I measure it and get a distance of 5600 and think "wow, that's a ways away" ... like a mile away or something? Then I realise the stupid drawing is done in inches and I have to do some fancy conversion... 5600" / 12 = ? (according to a calculator, ~466') ... which means what, exactly to me? I dunno, but at least i know it's about 150 y away.

It's even worse for me, as I work in the surveying field which uses decimal feet for layout, but we get design drawings in inches. Then I have to convert fractional inches into decimal feet. Argh. Which might be even more complicated because the US uses some stupid thing called a "survey foot" which is different from what is internationally recognized (including in the US) as a foot. Yes, even in the US, there is more than one standard "foot". Thankfully for everyone else, no one but US surveyors are subject to this mind-bendingly obtuse survey foot.

Decimalization of time will never happen in Metric - it would break way too many things. Many of the metric units are based off of the current second. In fact, the length of a metre would change if metric time were decimalized.

 

[randomrogue]

And how often in your daily life do you find yourself converting between meters and kilometers?

Everyday.