"Personal Responsibility"

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ebaycj

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2002
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What if the parents don't have the money and would be considered poor. I know a family in that situation now. Unwed older teenage daughter living at home gets pregnant and her parents don't have the money so they signed her up for medicaid and all other government programs available. They are helping and supporting as best they can as a family but the government will pay.

If the parents are UNABLE to help her further than that (i.e. they are living paycheck to paycheck, and having trouble with their own bills), I see no problem with that.

She should still use that time to better herself, hopefully through education. Though I am unaware if education (local community college, for example) disqualifies you for welfare. She would certainly qualify for needs-based scholarships now, that's for sure.
 
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Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
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Sweet, so what do you think should be done if she doesn't grow up and get a job? Should we punish her by taking away welfare?

No, I do not think we should take away her welfare. But I also don't think we should encourage this poor behavior. There need to be repercussions, what they are, I dont know. There should most certainly be something though.
 

BigDH01

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2005
1,631
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No, I do not think we should take away her welfare. But I also don't think we should encourage this poor behavior. There need to be repercussions, what they are, I dont know. There should most certainly be something though.

Sure, name it.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
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What if the parents don't have the money and would be considered poor. I know a family in that situation now. Unwed older teenage daughter living at home gets pregnant and her parents don't have the money so they signed her up for medicaid and all other government programs available. They are helping and supporting as best they can as a family but the government will pay.

Money really isn't the ans. to the problem here. As you said her parents are doing whats within their means, What more can a Child or sibbling ask? They took her in they gave her and child shelter seems like a loving family to me. As I said befor , I know what poor is , My wife knows better than I what poor is. In 82 I was severly injured and It was really hard. I just started addition on to the house removed the Gas furnance . I had the shell and roof up. Winter was coming and no gas Heater No income from self, wife was making like $4. an hour . It was hard. We lived in the living room for 4 years 4 of us 2 children. NO help from friends or family all were poor. But some could of helped with cutting wood for the fire place I had already gotten done. I asked no one for anything and got nothing. I learned much in that time . The hardest best years of our life. We learned and we grew and we still had compassion for our friends . I did get help from the lord he gave me strengh and a will to overcome. I know longer have or want friends that are not real. People with compassion are all I care about, The rest I leave to themselves. It took a long long time to heal and in the end the Doctors couldn't believe how strong I became. Doing things they said I could never do again .

The family you spoke of has compassion and are doing what is needed to support their child and grandchild . What more is there than that? The op deserves a life were at some point he requires compassion from friends or family than a lesson he will learn. I hope he learns the correct lesson and finds compassion . Family is everthing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MhYS3P4GwE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaydDqylQGE
 
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BigDH01

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2005
1,631
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Are you fucking dense. I just wrote two sentences and you managed to miss the part where I said "I don't know". Stupid fucking trolls.

Well, you're on a public forum expressing a great deal of outrage at a controversial program while offering no possible solution and calling me a troll. I was hoping you might be able to think of something palatable. Apparently, I desire too much. I'm sure it won't stop you from continuing the cause though.
 

Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
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Well, you're on a public forum expressing a great deal of outrage at a controversial program while offering no possible solution and calling me a troll. I was hoping you might be able to think of something palatable. Apparently, I desire too much. I'm sure it won't stop you from continuing the cause though.

Just because I don't have a solution, doesn't mean we shouldn't search for one. Or are you ok with allowing 1/2 our population to lead lives with such irresponsibility and immaturity, leaching off others rather than learning to provide for themselves?
 

BigDH01

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2005
1,631
88
91
Just because I don't have a solution, doesn't mean we shouldn't search for one. Or are you ok with allowing 1/2 our population to lead lives with such irresponsibility and immaturity, leaching off others rather than learning to provide for themselves?

Ok, great. So what do you suggest we do about it. Merely being angry isn't enough.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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Great question. Personal responsibility goes way beyond economic responsibility. It's about making your own luck.

There are a lot of people out there who just have a series of things "happen to them" in their lives. It's never their fault. A non-economic example: Young women who complain about not being able to find a boyfriend. Usually, these women are ugly and/or have deficient personalities that are not worth the trouble for men. Instead of trying to improve their appearance or attitude, they whine.
 
Dec 30, 2004
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personal responsibility is when you are given a blank check that correctly used would save any country's economy, and then pilfer it away on special interest groups that got you elected. Then turn around and blame Bush for the economy. That is personal responsibility.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
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personal responsibility is when you are given a blank check that correctly used would save any country's economy, and then pilfer it away on special interest groups that got you elected. Then turn around and blame Bush for the economy. That is personal responsibility.

Personal responsibility is making stuff up and typing it out because it sounds good to you?
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
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What I got from how the conservative talk radio show hosts' were using "Personal Responsibility" is it is code for:
I got mine and there is no need to help anyone else and "Socialism" will cause the collapse of Western Civilization.
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
34,644
1,815
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What I got from how the conservative talk radio show hosts' were using "Personal Responsibility" is it is code for:
I got mine and there is no need to help anyone else and "Socialism" will cause the collapse of Western Civilization.

If you have a lot to lose, big change is scary. If you have nothing to lose, big change is your only hope.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
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Ok, great. So what do you suggest we do about it. Merely being angry isn't enough.


1) Excepting certain situations, give a broom and a shovel ( A metaphor for some useful work) to every able bodied welfare recipient and tell them their money will credited to their account at then end of the day and how much that will be depends on the quality of their work, and yes day care would be provided.

2) There would be a system put in place much like that of health savings accounts. A debit card would be issued which would limit the kinds of things which could be purchased. No money back or smokes or alcohol. No HDTVs. No premium cable. Nope.

3) Females of child bearing age get a Depo Provera shot, and IUD or some other practitioner administered contraception unless there is a good medical reason to not do so. We need to end the self perpetuating entitlement mentality.

4) Education is mandatory and performance tied to total compensation.

5) Medicaid is completely redone. No "Sorry, you went over 50 bucks so you have to pay the 10K for you medicine out of your own pockets. There needs to be a mechanism that identifies the types of needs out there, and takes a more flexible approach. Kicking someone who is going to school to have a productive live, but has been set back because of health needs shouldn't be thrown to the wolves because his stipend suddenly goes up by a small amount. That's the kind of person we want to encourage. If the only practical option to stay alive is to drop out of school, what's the value of that?

6) Once a person is up to speed as far as work skills and education there needs to be a substantial investment in job placement. "Here's a diploma, now get lost" doesn't pay the bills.


Other suggestions but that's enough for now. Of course the politicians pander to special interests, so this will never happen.


The first priority is to get rid of those who don't support substantial reform.
 

BigDH01

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2005
1,631
88
91
1) Excepting certain situations, give a broom and a shovel ( A metaphor for some useful work) to every able bodied welfare recipient and tell them their money will credited to their account at then end of the day and how much that will be depends on the quality of their work, and yes day care would be provided.

Although I agree in principle, the reality is that we'll pay anyway. We'll pay, because ostensibly the money goes to raise the recipients' children. If the mother refuses to work, it becomes very hard to punish her without punishing her children unless you want even more government involvement (removal of the children and placement into foster/adoption). And although it's not quite politically correct, I highly doubt you're going to get a lot of adoptive parents for poor black children of welfare queens and gang bangers from the ghetto (which is the stereotypical image of someone abusing the welfare system). The other option, of course, is pure government run housing and boarding facilities for the children of welfare queens. This will be a great expense and something tells me won't have the best results.

2) There would be a system put in place much like that of health savings accounts. A debit card would be issued which would limit the kinds of things which could be purchased. No money back or smokes or alcohol. No HDTVs. No premium cable. Nope.

Which is great and all, but where do we draw the line? What about internet? What about regular cable? I agree with you here, obviously, I just think you need to be careful. I don't like seeing money wasted, but I understand that things like cell phones, the History Channel, and the internet are important if you want to give the children equal opportunity, even though cell phones, cable, and the internet can be abused. Cell phones are questionable, so maybe just a pre-paid phone with a reasonable number of minutes.

3) Females of child bearing age get a Depo Provera shot, and IUD or some other practitioner administered contraception unless there is a good medical reason to not do so. We need to end the self perpetuating entitlement mentality.

This is my favorite solution. If we enact this, I'm really not even all that concerned about the other abuses as this puts a finite limit on their duration. However, this option is probably the least politically feasible. It will remove voters from one party and is a pretty powerful show of government force. Although I'm sure the people screaming about government death panels will have less issue if they feel the person being medicated is deserving of it, it does smell a little bit of hypocrisy. At some point, almost all of us received some subsidy from the government. I'm also not sure how the very religious will take it.

Like I said, this is my favorite solution when examining the problem purely from an objective standpoint. Although it still suffers a little bit of the problem from #1 (if the mother says no, we'd likely still pay), it is quite a bit easier to show up with a check and a shot than it is to make the mother work.

4) Education is mandatory and performance tied to total compensation.

I don't think anyone has a problem with education, but this has the problem that #1 has. If the mother refuses to go to school, we're still stuck. We either take the money away from the mother and her children and do nothing (which is not all that feasible) or we take both the money and children away.

5) Medicaid is completely redone. No "Sorry, you went over 50 bucks so you have to pay the 10K for you medicine out of your own pockets. There needs to be a mechanism that identifies the types of needs out there, and takes a more flexible approach. Kicking someone who is going to school to have a productive live, but has been set back because of health needs shouldn't be thrown to the wolves because his stipend suddenly goes up by a small amount. That's the kind of person we want to encourage. If the only practical option to stay alive is to drop out of school, what's the value of that?

No argument from me that healthcare on all levels needs reform.

6) Once a person is up to speed as far as work skills and education there needs to be a substantial investment in job placement. "Here's a diploma, now get lost" doesn't pay the bills.

Although I greatly agree with this, I'm still stuck as to what to do if the person can't legitimately find a job. If the person truly does want to work, is it palatable for the government to employ them directly? Is there less of a problem with "welfare" if the person is doing something productive for the state?

The first priority is to get rid of those who don't support substantial reform.

I think that a lot of people want reform, they just don't know exactly what to do. There are already measures in place that are supposed to make a welfare recipient go to school or work/volunteer, but I'm not sure how effective they are. And they aren't effective because the reality is that we don't want the recipients' children to starve, so we still pay. We'd also like to at least give them some tools to allow them to be competitive with kids not growing up in the inner city. The only real solution is to get somewhat draconian in how we deal with people abusing the system. I personally like the sterilization idea, but frankly this is much closer to Nazi behavior than Medicare death consultations, and look how people were screaming about that.