"Personal Responsibility"

[her209]

Is this personal responsibility?

1. Take a loan out for a business idea.
2. Fail.
3. Declare bankruptcy.

 

[Throckmorton]

OMG society helped them!!! clearly they don't have "personal responsibility" then...

So what you are saying is that receiving $100,000 of government service over 12 years and personal responsibility are not mutually exclusive?

 

[brencat]

I'd hate to be your sibling...

Then you'd probably hate to be mine too. I agree with Cuda 100%. I'm from the school of "tough love" and so is he apparently.

 

[Cuda1447]

My mistake on the age thing. But at the age of 24 you don't know squat about life. I assumed you were older. And to trash your sibling like that who at the age of 20 is pregnant shows how much you still have to learn.

Why don't I know squat about life? Age certainly allows you more experiences in life, but to say I don't know squat about life based solely on my age (when it is clear you came to that decision before you know my age) is very naive.


And you still don't seem to get what I am saying. I am not 'trashing' my sister. I am acknowledging her mistakes. What should I do, sit her and say "oh its ok, she doesn't need a job. She can be on welfare her whole life, others will work and pay for it."

No. As soon as I found out I told her that she's going to have to grow up now. Things are going to be difficult for her. But she'll get through it. My wife is throwing her a baby shower. I told her congrats (when no one else was) and that, although the baby unplanned, ultimately babies are a great thing in life. It is going to be a tough few years, but if she gets through it, in the end she will look back on her life, when her child is older, and feel joy.

Despite all of that, it doesn't change the fact that she was irresponsible in the first place to A. Have unprotected sex. B. Have no job (and lie about it) C. Hide this from family for 5 months because she is scared to face the consequences.


But, those are the decisions she made. Irresponsible, immature and poor. Not the end of the world though. She has all her families support. But I'll be damned if I'm going to let her mooch off everyone else and not get a job, at least attempt to take care or her responsibilities and grow the hell up.


Oh, but I'm only 25. I don't know shit about life, right?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

So what you are saying is that receiving $100,000 of government service over 12 years and personal responsibility are not mutually exclusive?

I'm not saying anything other than pointing out the stupidity of your argument. A MINOR child who is FORCED by the state and/or parents to attend an education institution has exactly what to do with "personal responsibility"?

 

[Throckmorton]

I'm not saying anything other than pointing out the stupidity of your argument. A MINOR child who is FORCED by the state and/or parents to attend an education institution has exactly what to do with "personal responsibility"?

You don't see the hypocrisy in condemning receipt of government assistance as a lack of personal responsibility, when most of us wouldn't be where we are today without the taxpayer-funded public education we received?

 

[DanDaManJC]

Yeah, everything I have is based solely on luck. Luck that I studied my ass off to get a 3.8 GPA in high school. Luck that I balanced hard work in college to graduate cum laude with a 3.5 GPA in college while working part-time and doing a sport (1st 2 yrs). Luck that I landed a job in finance that I knew I wanted since I was a little boy watching my father and worked steadily toward....

Yea, everything I have is based purely on luck and no sacrifice or hard work. You are so full of it Moonie, it is coming out of your ears.

Luck...is often recognizing an opportunity presented to you AFTER you've laid the foundation to be in a position to take advantage of it.

Your attitude is exactly why conservatives like myself resent people whose endless excuses of why they can't do something ultimately end up taking money out of productive peoples' pockets. Maybe try a little harder in life...or just stfu.

Liberals aren't advocating free lunch for all. As others have mentioned, this notion that we've completely come to own success of our own hard work is simply folly. The schools you attended through high school were either government run or paid for by your parents... the family and location you were born in was also completely out of your control -- say you were born in Afghanistan, it wouldn't really matter how hard you worked, you'd most likely be illiterate and still living in a shit hole. Point is there are tons of factors that are completely outside your control that gave the opportunity to work hard and make something of yourself.

When liberals talk about these social programs, most aren't about giving "lazy black people in ghettos" free lunches -- but rather the same opportunity that your average white kid will get. Like decent public schools and so forth.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

You don't see the hypocrisy in condemning receipt of government assistance as a lack of personal responsibility, when most of us wouldn't be where we are today without the taxpayer-funded public education we received?

How exactly is a CHILD supposed to understand that concept at 5 years old? Also, how exactly does "personal responsibility" = never receive anything from anyone?

 

[Pens1566]

Liberals aren't advocating free lunch for all. As others have mentioned, this notion that we've completely come to own success of our own hard work is simply folly. The schools you attended through high school were either government run or paid for by your parents... the family and location you were born in was also completely out of your control -- say you were born in Afghanistan, it wouldn't really matter how hard you worked, you'd most likely be illiterate and still living in a shit hole. Point is there are tons of factors that are completely outside your control that gave the opportunity to work hard and make something of yourself.

When liberals talk about these social programs, most aren't about giving "lazy black people in ghettos" free lunches -- but rather the same opportunity that your average white kid will get. Like decent public schools and so forth.

Sanity and reason has no place in P&N, GTFO.

 

[Throckmorton]

How exactly is a CHILD supposed to understand that concept at 5 years old? Also, how exactly does "personal responsibility" = never receive anything from anyone?

You're missing the points here.

First, all of us substantially benefit from government programs of all sorts. The typical right-wing opinion DOES seem to be that anyone who gets any government help is a leech on society with no personal responsibility.

Second, our parents did have a choice. Do they lack personal responsibility because they sent us to public school instead of private? Look at the responses to this thread. Why is receiving WIC to feed your kid different from sending him to public school?

You can't take a hard line stance against government, socialism, or whatever, and then moderate your position when it becomes inconvenient. Well you can, but it's called hypocrisy.

 

[Moonbeam]

Skoorb: "I don't have much to add save there is more blur than distinction of the line between luck and bona fide self-determination toward an admirable goal..............."

M: Thanks you Skoorb. This was a fabulous post in my opinion.

DukeN: Gotta love the right wing judgementalists.

M: Exactly, it isn't success that is the problem, it is the mentality of self-congratulate and contempt for failures that so often go together with this group that is the problem.

Red Dawn: More like common sense but keep on telling yourselves you are special

M: Exactly, you see this with common sense, with all the sense that common sense is commonly thought to imply. I think this mask of being special is the result of a need to hide an inner sense of inferiority.

ebaycj: Yep, he's lost in his own self-image

M: You get it too.

Carmen813: One day in your life the shit will hit the fan............

M: Or one day it may....Wonderful post as are your further ones.

classy: Personal responsibility is not reserved for one race or area of life, you POS.

M: Hehe, as long as these fools get their own self-worth based on how much better they are than others, they will never see this. When self respect is based on illusions, those illusions are powerfully maintained. "Me good, others worthless" can only be cured by forgiveness and love.

Throckmorton: You don't see the hypocrisy in condemning receipt of government assistance as a lack of personal responsibility, when most of us wouldn't be where we are today without the taxpayer-funded public education we received?

M: You see it too....

Edit: DanDaManJC

M: Nice points!

 

[CADsortaGUY]

You're missing the points here.

First, all of us substantially benefit from government programs of all sorts. The typical right-wing opinion DOES seem to be that anyone who gets any government help is a leech on society with no personal responsibility.

Second, our parents did have a choice. Do they lack personal responsibility because they sent us to public school instead of private? Look at the responses to this thread.

You can't take a hard line stance against government, socialism, or whatever, and then moderate your position when it becomes inconvenient. Well you can, but it's called hypocrisy.

No, I think I get it just fine - you're trying to make claims based on some twisted notion of "personal responsibility".


1a. Some yes, others no.
1b. Welfare types - yes. However, that's really not the case if you looked passed the initial statements. Most would be fine with helping those who can't help themselves but it becomes a problem when helping those who won't help themselves. THAT is where "personal responsibility" comes into play.

2a. PARENTS. Aha - so you want to make a parental decision hang around the neck of people just so you can try to make some asinine claim?
2b. Why would you suggest that a parent sending their kid to a public school instead of private have anything to do with "personal responsibility"

3. It is quite clear you are trying to twist people's position so you can makes some asinine hypocrisy claim. If you actually looked past the surface of the issues, you'd see that there are different levels to the issues.

MEh, continue on with your willful ignorance if you must...

 

[MJinZ]

Taking care of your own shit and not relying on others (read: the .gov) to take care of it for you.

So a fine example. Being on welfare isn't personal responsibility.


Full disclosure: I just found out my 20 year old sister who lives at home is pregnant. Now she is going to get WICK/Welfare while she struggles to live. My opinion. She is a fucking drain on this country because she is personally irresponsible. She contributes nothing to this country and costs tax payers money. This is the type of behavior we need to stop.

On the flip side, my Wife and I (4 years older) are not having kids until we have steady incomes and do not have to rely on someone else to provide the necessities for the baby. That is called personal responsibility.


That said, I love my sister. She fucked up and is going to have a tough road ahead of her

Adoption or Abortion. Or paternal testing and child support.

 

[Moonbeam]

HumblePie:

In response to your post, I can almost see where Moonbeam is coming from. He is saying you are lucky by where you come from. You had the opportunities presented to you. You were ability to see those opportunity and the drive to see them succeed.

M: I agree

HP: What I don't agree with Moonbeam on is the hardwork. You did work for what you have. To do what you want in life to feel you were successful in your life. I know I feel the same way too. Your position and my position in life are not mere accidents or chance as Moonbeam further alleges. Yes, the doors to get where we are may have been, but it still took us to walk through them.

M: That you had what it took to walk through those many many more doors than most will ever have, is also as accidental as the many many more doors. You need a bit more humble pie in your diet, I think.

HP: There is also another thing I disagree with in Moonbeams post. That of all humans starting out perfect and equal with just different degrees of abilities. This is not the case unfortunately when one considers those people with deformed and deranged mentalities. An example would be a psychopath killer. They were born with out an integral part of the brain that regulates behavior and as such devolve from humanity. They really are flawed and trash.

M: Please look at what you say and how it contradicts itself. These folk you mention are genetically defective in an area that makes us humans human. They are not human at all in any real sense of what that means and, while flawed, they are simply flawed and not trash. They can't be other than they are and have no personal responsibility. They can't be blamed, but they must be isolated so they can't harm the rest of us. That is all. What they are is only a pity which is something they can't understand.

 

[Moonbeam]

I wouldn't count any of our political "leadership" as being models of personal responsibility. They all blame everyone but themselves for this country's problems, the exact opposite personal responsibility. And unfortunately responsibility flows up, not down. If individuals are responsible, they will put responsible people in place as their representatives. If not, they put fools there. We as a nation have opted for the latter.

It is not an option. It is the exact result one would expect, given the situation. You can't get responsibility out of irresponsible people. You become more responsible and you will do what can be done to affect the situation. Only my own responsibility adds to the sum total of responsibility in the world. Since it's all you can do, why not fill it with love so as to maximize the returns.

 

[Lanyap]

Funny that , When my unwed daughter got pregnant. My wife and self helped her and not the government. Thats what family is about. She has a fair Job and I daycare the child and Its the greatest pleasure I have ever known . Thats Personal Responsibility . My wife and self brought daughter into world along with her brother . Until they die . They are our personal responsibility . Thats what Family is all about . Something you maybe should look into . FAMILY is Family. no ands ifs and buts to it . But you wouldn't want to take on that personal responsibility would you as it would take money out of your pocket . No you rather she go on welfare and than say what you said here in this topic , You haven't a clue.

What if the parents don't have the money and would be considered poor. I know a family in that situation now. Unwed older teenage daughter living at home gets pregnant and her parents don't have the money so they signed her up for medicaid and all other government programs available. They are helping and supporting as best they can as a family but the government will pay.

 

[Moonbeam]

Seems so lately. Too bad, however, I have rather enjoyed watching the Moonster's angry descent into Mcowned territory since the lefties have gained control of our government. I can only guess at the cause, but Moonie kinda reminds me of a friend of mine who went impotent before Viagra was invented.

Or it could be an increasing sense of just how worthless you and your ilk really are. What kind of moral pig would enjoy seeing me go to pot? You should reach out to save me.

It could be that the answer to a fool is silence, but any other answer, even descent into Mc territory, will in the long run have the same effect.

Corn, I want you to post only with a positive messages for all from now on. It will set an example for me. It's the responsible thing to do, right? It will show me that those on the right have real compassion and understanding, that they don't kick dirt in other people's faces.

It could be that you folk on the right are immensely proud of being emotional dirt with your capacity to put others down, and I want to subtract from your pride by showing you that I'm much better at what you imagine is your specialty.

Or it could be that I am just a mirror in which you see yourself.

 

[Corn]

Corn, I want you to post only with a positive messages for all from now on. It will set an example for me.

Tried it long ago, didn't work.

 

[sandorski]

The far right's idea of personal responsibility is "Screw you, I got mine!!"

Pretty much. They seem to also view it as a Liberals' Personal Responsibility, but when it's Them on the line, it's someone else's responsibility. Bush was not a paragon of such an ideal.

 

[nobodyknows]

Tried it long ago, didn't work.

You might want to look up the3 definition of Positive. I know it starts with POS, but I think your jumping to conclusions,

 

[Moonbeam]

Tried it long ago, didn't work.

Sure it did. I treat you with vastly more respect than you deserve.

 

[Modelworks]

Funny that , When my unwed daughter got pregnant. My wife and self helped her and not the government. Thats what family is about. She has a fair Job and I daycare the child and Its the greatest pleasure I have ever known . Thats Personal Responsibility . My wife and self brought daughter into world along with her brother . Until they die . They are our personal responsibility . Thats what Family is all about . Something you maybe should look into . FAMILY is Family. no ands ifs and buts to it . But you wouldn't want to take on that personal responsibility would you as it would take money out of your pocket . No you rather she go on welfare and than say what you said here in this topic , You haven't a clue.

That is the way things were before the government got involved. If you look back around the 1930's homes were built much larger because they had not just the current family but often the grandparents stayed with the family, you didn't put family in nursing homes it was the families responsibility. The same went for daughters that got pregnant without means of support. The daughter would live there and so would the child, family ties were much stronger then.

 

[ebaycj]

At the end of the day though, my sister is NOT my responsibility.

And his true colors shine through.

 

[ebaycj]

And you still don't seem to get what I am saying. I am not 'trashing' my sister. I am acknowledging her mistakes. What should I do, sit her and say "oh its ok, she doesn't need a job. She can be on welfare her whole life, others will work and pay for it."

Though it is discriminatory, employers (of any shape/size) typically don't hire pregnant women. I also understand that pregnancy is a temporary state.

What if she is only able to get a job (20 years old usually means no degree) that pays less than or equal to her childcare costs? Should she still get (and slave her life away at) said job?

 

[BigDH01]

But, those are the decisions she made. Irresponsible, immature and poor. Not the end of the world though. She has all her families support. But I'll be damned if I'm going to let her mooch off everyone else and not get a job, at least attempt to take care or her responsibilities and grow the hell up.

Sweet, so what do you think should be done if she doesn't grow up and get a job? Should we punish her by taking away welfare?