"Personal Responsibility"

[Siddhartha]

Last Tuesday, I was visiting the company's production facility in the Boston area. One of the labs keeps their radio tuned to Conservative talk radio. Mr Limbaugh and people who agree with him are the hosts the station(s).

One theme, "Personal Responsibility", was mentioned often throughout the day by different people. It hit me that "Personal Responsibilty" is one of those terms that means different things to different people.

How do you define "Personal Responsibility"?

 

[Cuda1447]

Taking care of your own shit and not relying on others (read: the .gov) to take care of it for you.

So a fine example. Being on welfare isn't personal responsibility.


Full disclosure: I just found out my 20 year old sister who lives at home is pregnant. Now she is going to get WICK/Welfare while she struggles to live. My opinion. She is a fucking drain on this country because she is personally irresponsible. She contributes nothing to this country and costs tax payers money. This is the type of behavior we need to stop.

On the flip side, my Wife and I (4 years older) are not having kids until we have steady incomes and do not have to rely on someone else to provide the necessities for the baby. That is called personal responsibility.


That said, I love my sister. She fucked up and is going to have a tough road ahead of her

 

[cubeless]

methinks that her insignificant other ought to be shown the way to some personal responsibility and help support little zygote... adoption is always an option, too...

and if she is greatful for the dole that she is on, then she could do any myriad things to help repay it like read to little mushheads at the local elem school for a couple hours a week, etc (while grammy watches zygote)... If all the folks on the dole who aren't looking for work went a bit out of their way to be villagers the whole hood would be a nicer place...

 

[Nemesis 1]

Funny that , When my unwed daughter got pregnant. My wife and self helped her and not the government. Thats what family is about. She has a fair Job and I daycare the child and Its the greatest pleasure I have ever known . Thats Personal Responsibility . My wife and self brought daughter into world along with her brother . Until they die . They are our personal responsibility . Thats what Family is all about . Something you maybe should look into . FAMILY is Family. no ands ifs and buts to it . But you wouldn't want to take on that personal responsibility would you as it would take money out of your pocket . No you rather she go on welfare and than say what you said here in this topic , You haven't a clue.

 

[Throckmorton]

The far right's idea of personal responsibility is "Screw you, I got mine!!"

 

[cubeless]

Funny that , When my unwed daughter got pregnant. My wife and self helped her and not the government. Thats what family is about. She has a fair Job and I daycare the child and Its the greatest pleasure I have ever known . Thats Personal Responsibility . My wife and self brought daughter into world along with her brother . Until they die . They are our personal responsibility . Thats what Family is all about . Something you maybe should look into . FAMILY is Family. no ands ifs and buts to it . But you wouldn't want to take on that personal responsibility would you as it would take money out of your pocket . No you rather she go on welfare and than say what you said here in this topic , You haven't a clue.

when my daughter found herself in the bearing out of wedlock situation we all decided it was best that a better family situation be found for the baby... the new parents are nice folks who constitute a much better family group than my daughter or my wife and i would have been able to be... but the daughter moved back home and i paid the bills during the gestation...

but i don't buy the family is family thing... if a family member isn't someone you would have to dinner if they were not a family member, why would you do that? i'm a little evil that way due to my sordid upbringing, but i don't hang with people who aren't my friends... yeah, you are responsible for your rugrats, but once they are 18 they join the world of the grownups and get to decide if they want to be my friend or not...

 

[Moonbeam]

Personal responsibility is a term right wing assholes use, who are right wing because they have been fortunate enough to know no hardship and are luck to have reasonable jobs, but imagine that their fortune and luck is a manifestation of their personal worth, use I repeat, to fatten their sallow egos with self praise and self flattery.

Such assholes are characterized by shallow insight into their personalities, deep capacity for hypocrisy, and emotional immaturity. They don't actually get that they are what they are purely by luck. They imagine, instead that they worked hard and sacrificed, as if it were an option rather than a compulsive behavior they are cursed with.

 

[Nemesis 1]

So the left than Moonie. They want to go on welfare and not contribute to society. or take responsibility for their own actions . I don't get what your saying here . You want a social state . Thats fine with me . Except the authorities in charge are still above the social programm . That is unexceptable to me . Either were all = or its a lie.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Personal responsibility is a term that banks use to shame people into keeping making payments on their upside mortgage while the same banks are getting bailed out because they exercised zero personal responsibility.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Who signed the loan agreement. Who twisted the arm of the person signing said agreement. . We should all just stop paying see were it leads . Like I don't know.

 

[Moonbeam]

Nemesis: So the left than Moonie. They want to go on welfare and not contribute to society. or take responsibility for their own actions.

M: The picture is much different than that, in my opinion. I am on the left. I have never been on welfare and contributed all my life. I take responsibility for my actions rather well, I think. I don't want to be on welfare and I like to contribute.

N: I don't get what your saying here . You want a social state . Thats fine with me . Except the authorities in charge are still above the social program . That is unexceptable to me . Either were all = or its a lie.

M: I am not interested in a social state. I don't know what a social state is. I want a state that helps people reach their potential, that supports people rather than tears them down. I am not interested in a state of helpers with privilege and the helped.

Let me explain a bit of what I see:

We are automata, programmed sleepers, bots running a program. We are not real nor are we capable of real responsibility. What we are is an accident and the stories we tell ourselves about who we are are illusions. We hate ourselves and live our whole lives in denial. We live as false selves, phony egos pretending to be somebodies and important.

We are the results of what happens to children who are put down and told they are no good unless they behave, but what it means to behave is never consistent or sane, it is always something new and changing. You are damned from the first day.

How badly we are damage varies from person to person and how we react to the damage varies too. Some, the right more than the left, becomes their parents, steps into the authoritarian shoes. The left rebels and sympathizes with the victim. The more severely damaged never make anything of themselves. They are hell bent of personal self destruction. They turn to drugs, crime, etc, anything to try to find relief from their inner pain. The successful pump up their egos with false self esteem and pride themselves on achieving their parents dreams.

But there are realities to hating yourself, truths that are implied. The first and foremost is that there isn't and never was anything wrong with anybody. Everybody was born absolutely perfect. We are all equal in that. We are not equal in abilities, but at core we are all the same.

The job, therefore is to help people to relearn how to love themselves, to get them back to their original mint condition. But it can't happen for those in denial.

This is why Jesus came for the meek. They have lost all there is to lose and have nothing in the way of loss to fear. They have less distance to pass to becoming whole. The successful have their success to lose, as if what the call success is success and as if real success weren't millions of times better.

The real issue between liberals and the right, then, is in helping people. The right doesn't want to waste money on the worthless. Both the left and the right are wrong. This is what, now, point three:

You cannot help people by giving them things because they feel worthless and will piss any gift away. They do not deserve to have it. The only way you can give somebody anything is to make them think they earned it. You value only what you pay for. So the way to help people is to help them help themselves without them knowing what you are up to.

The Grameen gives micro loans to beggars. They sell some almost worthless item and use the money they get to buy more. Thousands have stopped begging and work and sustain themselves. They have real new personal pride.

What people want is love and what they have all been told is that they are too worthless to love. Love is the root of self respect. Folk who respect themselves respect their neighbors and the world.

 

[Cuda1447]

Funny that , When my unwed daughter got pregnant. My wife and self helped her and not the government. Thats what family is about. She has a fair Job and I daycare the child and Its the greatest pleasure I have ever known . Thats Personal Responsibility . My wife and self brought daughter into world along with her brother . Until they die . They are our personal responsibility . Thats what Family is all about . Something you maybe should look into . FAMILY is Family. no ands ifs and buts to it . But you wouldn't want to take on that personal responsibility would you as it would take money out of your pocket . No you rather she go on welfare and than say what you said here in this topic , You haven't a clue.

Woah, know more details before you judge. My personal responsibility is to myself and my wife first. If our house is in order, sure help out the rest of the family, but you can't help others if you haven't helped your self first.

And for the record, I am very supportive of my younger sister. Maybe not financially (although I have helped out with quite a few things). Unfortunately, I am not in the position to house my sister, her boyfriend, their child and pay all of their bills. So, because THEY were personally irresponsible, THEY are the ones that are using the .gov. Sure, hopefully they will grow up, repay their debt to society. I sure as hell hope so, as it makes me sick to think otherwise. I simply used this as an example of personal responsibility. For, even if they grow up, even if they repay their debt to society, there are millions who will not.


@Moonbeam:

I should know better, than to feed a troll... but here goes.

Your post seems to indicate someone like me. In what way do you think I am 'lucky' to be where I am in life?


Is it because I don't go out drinking, wasting money at clubs? Instead, I spend that money on grociers, or car insurance, or electric bill. Am I lucky because I choose to work hard at my career. I can cound on one hand the days I've called in sick since Ive started working. And it only takes one finger as well! (Sure, I took off a few months when I had ACL surgery, but luckily I SAVED my money so that I could afford it.... hint hint, personal responsibility.)

Or maybe I'm lucky that the money I earned went towards my education, NO GOVERNMENT LOANS OR GRANTS. That would be called being personally responsible with my future.

You don't seem to get it. You think that every person in this country who is successful is so because of luck.


Let me draw a parellel for you. A lot of people think poker is all luck. Sure, luck is involved. To a great extent actually. As it is in life. But, at the end of the day, the best poker players in the world make money and the worst lose it. Why is this? Certainly, if it was all luck, the law of averages would kick in and everyone would be equal. Well, Mr. Moonbeam. I have news for you, although there is a lot of luck involved in this world, there is also a lot of hardwork, personal responsibility, drive, determination, whatever else you want to call it. People CAN be successful if they want to be. Maybe they won't make a million dollars, but they can certainly take care of themselves and not have to rely on others. That is what every person should strive for in this world. Why the hell do you want to rely on others? Are you somehow incapable of helping yourself?

 

[Moonbeam]

Woah, know more details before you judge. My personal responsibility is to myself and my wife first. If our house is in order, sure help out the rest of the family, but you can't help others if you haven't helped your self first.

And for the record, I am very supportive of my younger sister. Maybe not financially (although I have helped out with quite a few things). Unfortunately, I am not in the position to house my sister, her boyfriend, their child and pay all of their bills. So, because THEY were personally irresponsible, THEY are the ones that are using the .gov. Sure, hopefully they will grow up, repay their debt to society. I sure as hell hope so, as it makes me sick to think otherwise. I simply used this as an example of personal responsibility. For, even if they grow up, even if they repay their debt to society, there are millions who will not.


@Moonbeam:

I should know better, than to feed a troll... but here goes.

Your post seems to indicate someone like me. In what way do you think I am 'lucky' to be where I am in life?


Is it because I don't go out drinking, wasting money at clubs? Instead, I spend that money on grociers, or car insurance, or electric bill. Am I lucky because I choose to work hard at my career. I can cound on one hand the days I've called in sick since Ive started working. And it only takes one finger as well! (Sure, I took off a few months when I had ACL surgery, but luckily I SAVED my money so that I could afford it.... hint hint, personal responsibility.)

Or maybe I'm lucky that the money I earned went towards my education, NO GOVERNMENT LOANS OR GRANTS. That would be called being personally responsible with my future.

You don't seem to get it. You think that every person in this country who is successful is so because of luck.


Let me draw a parellel for you. A lot of people think poker is all luck. Sure, luck is involved. To a great extent actually. As it is in life. But, at the end of the day, the best poker players in the world make money and the worst lose it. Why is this? Certainly, if it was all luck, the law of averages would kick in and everyone would be equal. Well, Mr. Moonbeam. I have news for you, although there is a lot of luck involved in this world, there is also a lot of hardwork, personal responsibility, drive, determination, whatever else you want to call it. People CAN be successful if they want to be. Maybe they won't make a million dollars, but they can certainly take care of themselves and not have to rely on others. That is what every person should strive for in this world. Why the hell do you want to rely on others? Are you somehow incapable of helping yourself?

You are quite funny in your self absorbed sort of way. You can't help throw in all that garbage about how I want to rely on others and am incapable of helping myself even though you started out saying I seemed to be somebody like you. Make up your mind who you think I am and get back to me. Your problem is that while you are extremely lucky to be where you are, you don't like to think it has nothing to do with you. Phone in sick tomorrow. Bet you'll find a reason not to, a reason you'll attribute to your good character and not that you are trapped in who you were made to be and can't escape from.

 

[Tristicus]

It's funny how people who actually work towards things are considered privileged.

 

[StageLeft]

I don't have much to add save there is more blur than distinction of the line between luck and bona fide self-determination toward an admirable goal. I can't accept that we are all chemical computers responding to stimuli with the reliability of software or else I would not bother to live. That is unless my software told me I should bother, though I see no reason it would.

In any case, I know myself and what I have and I try not to forget how lucky I am to have been born where I was. I have made many good choices but when the deck is stacked for you it is much easier to do so. I could have been born to a crack mom or made a child soldier in Sierra Leone but I wasn't, I was born in the West to well off parents and from that everything else grew. I'd be crazy to think that everybody who is worse off than me is inherently lazier or stupider, just as I'd be crazy to think a celebrity making $10M/movie really is so many magnitudes more successful at life than I. But then, this is money, and it's only one portion of living.

 

[DukeN]

Personal responsibility is a term right wing assholes use, who are right wing because they have been fortunate enough to know no hardship and are luck to have reasonable jobs, but imagine that their fortune and luck is a manifestation of their personal worth, use I repeat, to fatten their sallow egos with self praise and self flattery.

Such assholes are characterized by shallow insight into their personalities, deep capacity for hypocrisy, and emotional immaturity. They don't actually get that they are what they are purely by luck. They imagine, instead that they worked hard and sacrificed, as if it were an option rather than a compulsive behavior they are cursed with.

+1

Gotta love the right wing judgementalists.

 

[Red Dawn]

Taking care of your own shit and not relying on others (read: the .gov) to take care of it for you.

So a fine example. my Wife and I (4 years older) are not having kids until we have steady incomes and do not have to rely on someone else to provide the necessities for the baby. That is called personal responsibility.


(

More like common sense but keep on telling yourselves you are special

 

[ebaycj]

Full disclosure: I just found out my 20 year old sister who lives at home is pregnant. Now she is going to get WICK/Welfare while she struggles to live. My opinion. She is a fucking drain on this country because she is personally irresponsible. She contributes nothing to this country and costs tax payers money. This is the type of behavior we need to stop.

So would you, in this case, be OK with your sister having an abortion instead of going on the government dole? Where do your priorities lie? What about you other 'pubs out there?

 

[ebaycj]

But you wouldn't want to take on that personal responsibility would you as it would take money out of your pocket . No you rather she go on welfare and than say what you said here in this topic , You haven't a clue.

Can I have "why welfare exists and will never go away" for $1000, Alex?

Good call, Nemesis1... I used to think you were bat-shit-crazy, but I'm seeing the light behind your words.

 

[Zstream]

I want my monneeyyhh Bitch!

 

[ebaycj]

You are quite funny in your self absorbed sort of way. You can't help throw in all that garbage about how I want to rely on others and am incapable of helping myself even though you started out saying I seemed to be somebody like you. Make up your mind who you think I am and get back to me. Your problem is that while you are extremely lucky to be where you are, you don't like to think it has nothing to do with you. Phone in sick tomorrow. Bet you'll find a reason not to, a reason you'll attribute to your good character and not that you are trapped in who you were made to be and can't escape from.

Yep, he's lost in his own self-image (person with "good character", whatever the fuck that means). It's his way of telling himself he's a unique, special flower.

The harsh reality is that there's a million people just like him out there. Easily. You're not a statistical outlier unless you are 3 standard deviations above the mean.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Personal responsibility is a term right wing assholes use, who are right wing because they have been fortunate enough to know no hardship and are luck to have reasonable jobs, but imagine that their fortune and luck is a manifestation of their personal worth, use I repeat, to fatten their sallow egos with self praise and self flattery.

Such assholes are characterized by shallow insight into their personalities, deep capacity for hypocrisy, and emotional immaturity. They don't actually get that they are what they are purely by luck. They imagine, instead that they worked hard and sacrificed, as if it were an option rather than a compulsive behavior they are cursed with.

Lie #1 - Right wingers know no hardship
Lie #2 - Right wingers are lucky to have reasonable jobs
Lie #3 - Right wingers believe they are more valuable than others
Lie #4 - Right wingers are vain egotists
Lie #5 - Right wingers are shallow, oblivious, ignorant, immature hypocrites.
Lie #6 - Right wingers are unwitting victims of the curse of compulsive behavior...only imagining that they ever worked hard and made sacrifices.

Wow moonie...looks like truth and objectivity are not your strong suits.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Who signed the loan agreement. Who twisted the arm of the person signing said agreement. . We should all just stop paying see were it leads . Like I don't know.

I believe the banks signed every one of those loan agreements. And have entire departments full of intelligent people who are supposed to be experts in risk evaluation.

 

[brencat]

Personal responsibility is a term right wing assholes use, who are right wing because they have been fortunate enough to know no hardship and are luck to have reasonable jobs, but imagine that their fortune and luck is a manifestation of their personal worth, use I repeat, to fatten their sallow egos with self praise and self flattery.

They don't actually get that they are what they are purely by luck. They imagine, instead that they worked hard and sacrificed, as if it were an option rather than a compulsive behavior they are cursed with.

Yeah, everything I have is based solely on luck. Luck that I studied my ass off to get a 3.8 GPA in high school. Luck that I balanced hard work in college to graduate cum laude with a 3.5 GPA in college while working part-time and doing a sport (1st 2 yrs). Luck that I landed a job in finance that I knew I wanted since I was a little boy watching my father and worked steadily toward....

Yea, everything I have is based purely on luck and no sacrifice or hard work. You are so full of it Moonie, it is coming out of your ears.

Luck...is often recognizing an opportunity presented to you AFTER you've laid the foundation to be in a position to take advantage of it.

Your attitude is exactly why conservatives like myself resent people whose endless excuses of why they can't do something ultimately end up taking money out of productive peoples' pockets. Maybe try a little harder in life...or just stfu.

 

[Tristicus]

So would you, in this case, be OK with your sister having an abortion instead of going on the government dole? Where do your priorities lie? What about you other 'pubs out there?

Called adoption.