Perfect scenario good guy with gun vs bad guy with gun. What happened?

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imported_tajmahal

imported_tajmahal

Lifer
Jul 9, 2009
10,719
2,064
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-met-texas-church-shooting-kass-1108-story.html

"
What made former National Rifle Association instructor Stephen Willeford— a good man with a gun — rush forward, barefoot, to confront a killer?

What made him do what had to be done in Sutherland Springs,Texas?

The political left is clearly bothered by Willeford, bothered that he’s anywhere near this story, bothered by his NRA connection, and clearly incensed that President Donald Trump, whom it loathes, said Willeford probably saved lives.

Yet all that is politics, the politics of guns and gun control and Trump and the anti-Trumpers fighting it out, day after day, in the media world."..........
 
zinfamous

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,594
29,224
146
BigDH01 said:
You know, from the opposite side it looks like the right is thrilled about guns and shooters because an active shooter was stopped by someone with a gun... ignoring the 26 people that had already been killed and pretending like this is a huge success for guns.

So while you say the left wanted more carnage, the left would say the right is ignoring the 26 dead bodies and pretending like this wasn't already a tragedy.

So, keep lying rightwit?
Click to expand...

interesting how the only conversation the righties want to push about this is specifically about the neighbor shooting the killer, and somehow proving without any clear totality of evidence that their bloodlust theory of "more and more guns = less death!" because this guy died before he could do, well, whatever no one knows he was about to do.

It's amazing how fundamentally incapable of rational debate the right has become. It's as if they really have no scruples about honest discourse, just "winning" for winning's sake, for the team!
 
zinfamous

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,594
29,224
146
imported_tajmahal said:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-met-texas-church-shooting-kass-1108-story.html

"
What made former National Rifle Association instructor Stephen Willeford— a good man with a gun — rush forward, barefoot, to confront a killer?

What made him do what had to be done in Sutherland Springs,Texas?

The political left is clearly bothered by Willeford, bothered that he’s anywhere near this story, bothered by his NRA connection, and clearly incensed that President Donald Trump, whom it loathes, said Willeford probably saved lives.

Yet all that is politics, the politics of guns and gun control and Trump and the anti-Trumpers fighting it out, day after day, in the media world."..........
Click to expand...

I assure you, the left is not bothered by Willeford. I see him as the last remaining stopgap you guys have to staunch the ever-present bedwetting over your precious pew pew toys, until next week's mass shooting when Willeford isn't there to save the day, of course.
 
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werepossum

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
1sikbITCH said:
That is exactly what I drew from when making my statement. They looked for rental cars because they knew out-of-state folks would not be armed. In jurisdictions where it is legal to open carry, establishments choosing to strip folks of their right to bear arms should be legally obligated to protect everyone stripped of that right. You'd have to supply armed guards or other protections against this sort of stuff.
Click to expand...
I agree completely.
 
imported_tajmahal

imported_tajmahal

Lifer
Jul 9, 2009
10,719
2,064
136
lol, thinkprogress.
"
About


"ThinkProgress is a news site dedicated to providing our readers with rigorous reporting and analysis from a progressive perspective. "

We can trust what they tell us. lol
 
S

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
soundforbjt said:
https://thinkprogress.org/debunking-john-lott-5456e83cf326/
Click to expand...

Wow, a leftie site doesn't like a guy on the right. I'll copy and paste the important facts so you don't have to be exposed to opinions that scare you, I know you far lefties are very scared of opinions that you don't agree with... don't want any riots.


-- Arlington, Texas, May 3, 2017: A police spokesman stated that the concealed handgun permit holder “prevented further loss of life.” A Dallas Morning News headline read: “‘Hero’ stopped mass murder by crazed bar patron who was armed to the teeth, police say.”

-- Lyman, South Carolina, June 30, 2016: Just a couple of weeks after the Orlando massacre, 32-year-old Jody Ray Thompson opened fire on another nightclub. Fortunately, permitted concealed handguns were allowed in South Carolina bars. Thompson was able to shoot three people before the permit holder fired back and wounded Thompson in the leg. Fox 5 in Atlanta reports: “At least one South Carolina sheriff are crediting a man with a concealed carry permit with preventing further violence at a nightclub this past Sunday.”

-- Winton, Ohio, July 26, 2015: A man started shooting at four people who were walking outside on a summer’s evening. Fortunately, a concealed handgun permit holder fired at the attacker, giving the four people a chance to escape into their home.

-- Conyers, Georgia, May 31, 2015: A man killed two people at a liquor store and continued shooting at others until a permit holder ran inside and exchanged fire. The killer then fled the store. “I believe that if Mr. Scott did not return fire at the suspect then more of those customers would have [been] hit by a gun,” said Rockdale County Sheriff Eric Levett. “So in my opinion he saved other lives in that store.”

-- New Holland, South Carolina, May 5, 2015: New Holland Fire Department volunteers were hosting a children’s day event with ice cream and fire truck rides, when a man started shooting. Fortunately, two firemen were permit holders and were able to stop the attack.

-- Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, March 22, 2015: A 40-year-old man started shooting at people in a barber shop. A permit holder who heard the gunfire ran inside and shot the attacker. “The person who responded was a legal gun permit carrier. He responded and I guess he saved a lot of people in there,” said Philadelphia Police Captain Frank Llewellyn.

-- Darby, Pennsylvania, July 24, 2014: Convicted felon Richard Plotts killed a caseworker at Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital and started shooting at Dr. Lee Silverman. Fortunately, the doctor had his own gun and returned fire, critically wounding Plotts, who still had 39 bullets on him. “Without a doubt, I believe the doctor saved lives,” said Yeadon police chief Donald Molineux.

-- Chicago, Illinois, July 7, 2014: Gang members started firing at four people who had just left a party. The attack started because one of the four people removed a cup of liquor that had been placed on top of her vehicle. Luckily, one of the four people — a military member — had a permitted concealed handgun and was able to wound the primary attacker.

-- Portland, Oregon, January 11, 2014: Convicted criminal Thomas Eliot Hjelmeland was ejected from a nightclub but returned 30 minutes later wearing a mask and carrying a gun. He shot the bouncer who had ejected him, and shot at others. Two others were wounded, and Hjelmeland was shooting all around the club. A concealed handgun permit holder who worked at the nightclub then fatally shot Hjelmeland.

And here are just two more cases from 2000 to 2013 — the same period that the FBI claims only had one instance of a permit holder stopping a public shooting. Again, law enforcement say that permit holders saved lives in both of these cases.

-- Plymouth, Pennsylvania, September 9, 2012: William Allabaugh shot at people as he walked down the street in Plymouth, Pennsylvania. He wounded one and killed another. Permit holder Mark Ktytor fatally shot Allabaugh. “Mr. [Ktytor] then acted, taking him [Allabaugh] down. We believe that it could have been much worse that night,” said Luzerne County Assistant District Attorney Jarrett Ferentino.

-- Spartanburg, South Carolina, March 2012: Jesse Gates kicked open a door to a church and pointed a shotgun at the pastor and congregation. Parishioner Aaron Guyton, a concealed weapons permit holder, got the drop on Gates and held him at gunpoint. Sheriff Chuck Wright called Aaron and others at the church “everyday heroes.”
 
soundforbjt

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,787
6,035
136
SlowSpyder said:
Wow, a leftie site doesn't like a guy on the right. I'll copy and paste the important facts so you don't have to be exposed to opinions that scare you, I know you far lefties are very scared of opinions that you don't agree with... don't want any riots.


-- Arlington, Texas, May 3, 2017: A police spokesman stated that the concealed handgun permit holder “prevented further loss of life.” A Dallas Morning News headline read: “‘Hero’ stopped mass murder by crazed bar patron who was armed to the teeth, police say.”

-- Lyman, South Carolina, June 30, 2016: Just a couple of weeks after the Orlando massacre, 32-year-old Jody Ray Thompson opened fire on another nightclub. Fortunately, permitted concealed handguns were allowed in South Carolina bars. Thompson was able to shoot three people before the permit holder fired back and wounded Thompson in the leg. Fox 5 in Atlanta reports: “At least one South Carolina sheriff are crediting a man with a concealed carry permit with preventing further violence at a nightclub this past Sunday.”

-- Winton, Ohio, July 26, 2015: A man started shooting at four people who were walking outside on a summer’s evening. Fortunately, a concealed handgun permit holder fired at the attacker, giving the four people a chance to escape into their home.

-- Conyers, Georgia, May 31, 2015: A man killed two people at a liquor store and continued shooting at others until a permit holder ran inside and exchanged fire. The killer then fled the store. “I believe that if Mr. Scott did not return fire at the suspect then more of those customers would have [been] hit by a gun,” said Rockdale County Sheriff Eric Levett. “So in my opinion he saved other lives in that store.”

-- New Holland, South Carolina, May 5, 2015: New Holland Fire Department volunteers were hosting a children’s day event with ice cream and fire truck rides, when a man started shooting. Fortunately, two firemen were permit holders and were able to stop the attack.

-- Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, March 22, 2015: A 40-year-old man started shooting at people in a barber shop. A permit holder who heard the gunfire ran inside and shot the attacker. “The person who responded was a legal gun permit carrier. He responded and I guess he saved a lot of people in there,” said Philadelphia Police Captain Frank Llewellyn.

-- Darby, Pennsylvania, July 24, 2014: Convicted felon Richard Plotts killed a caseworker at Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital and started shooting at Dr. Lee Silverman. Fortunately, the doctor had his own gun and returned fire, critically wounding Plotts, who still had 39 bullets on him. “Without a doubt, I believe the doctor saved lives,” said Yeadon police chief Donald Molineux.

-- Chicago, Illinois, July 7, 2014: Gang members started firing at four people who had just left a party. The attack started because one of the four people removed a cup of liquor that had been placed on top of her vehicle. Luckily, one of the four people — a military member — had a permitted concealed handgun and was able to wound the primary attacker.

-- Portland, Oregon, January 11, 2014: Convicted criminal Thomas Eliot Hjelmeland was ejected from a nightclub but returned 30 minutes later wearing a mask and carrying a gun. He shot the bouncer who had ejected him, and shot at others. Two others were wounded, and Hjelmeland was shooting all around the club. A concealed handgun permit holder who worked at the nightclub then fatally shot Hjelmeland.

And here are just two more cases from 2000 to 2013 — the same period that the FBI claims only had one instance of a permit holder stopping a public shooting. Again, law enforcement say that permit holders saved lives in both of these cases.

-- Plymouth, Pennsylvania, September 9, 2012: William Allabaugh shot at people as he walked down the street in Plymouth, Pennsylvania. He wounded one and killed another. Permit holder Mark Ktytor fatally shot Allabaugh. “Mr. [Ktytor] then acted, taking him [Allabaugh] down. We believe that it could have been much worse that night,” said Luzerne County Assistant District Attorney Jarrett Ferentino.

-- Spartanburg, South Carolina, March 2012: Jesse Gates kicked open a door to a church and pointed a shotgun at the pastor and congregation. Parishioner Aaron Guyton, a concealed weapons permit holder, got the drop on Gates and held him at gunpoint. Sheriff Chuck Wright called Aaron and others at the church “everyday heroes.”
Click to expand...
An NRA paid supporter, who'd think he would be biased...
 
S

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
ch33zw1z said:
on fox news, nonetheless. nope, no bias there.
Click to expand...

They are biased. So is CNN, so is thinkprogress, so is NBC, etc. But, are the cases cited factual or not? I haven't checked them all, but spot checking the stories' names seems to show them to be true. And for the record the article is an opinion piece, which of course will be and should expected to have bias.
 
ch33zw1z

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,767
18,045
146
examples of what at this point?

are you asking me to provide examples of true alt-facts?

feel free to google your own questions, itd be wise to steer clear of faux news, hard as it may be, i heard theyre the most watched most trusted (but not MSM), and also fair and balanced.

if thats too hard, maybe infowars has what you're looking for.
 
S

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
ch33zw1z said:
examples of what at this point?

are you asking me to provide examples of true alt-facts?
Click to expand...


What "alt-facts" in particular are you talking about. I mean, we're talking about labels here. In reality there are facts and non-facts. Some lies are pushed as facts to some (flat earth, as an example), and depending on who you ask fact is a matter of perception. But I'd like to know what you are talking about in particular.
 
Last edited:
ch33zw1z

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,767
18,045
146
since youre off in wherever, and confused about what facts are, lets bring it back around.

John Lott is a hack, and his bullshit has been repudiated. He's right at home on faux news.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2443681

and before you get all stupid about this shit, ive said multiple times im not a gun restriction advocate, im a personal responsibility advocate.

i also dont delude myself as to the intent of the 2A.
 
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imported_tajmahal

imported_tajmahal

Lifer
Jul 9, 2009
10,719
2,064
136
ch33zw1z said:
since youre off in wherever, and confused about what facts are, lets bring it back around.

John Lott is a hack, and his bullshit has been repudiated. He's right at home on faux news.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2443681

and before you get all stupid about this shit, ive said multiple times im not a gun restriction advocate, im a personal responsibility advocate.

i also dont delude myself as to the intent of the 2A.
Click to expand...
That paper repudiates nothing. I think you're just trying to slip your own set of alt-facts about RTC laws.
 
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