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Perfect scenario good guy with gun vs bad guy with gun. What happened?

HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
This story didn't even break through all the Trump clutter. An armed gunman walked into a Walmart, shot 3 people and walked out. People inside the store who were carrying guns took a defensive position and brandished their guns...

police in Thornton, Colo., said that in this case the well-intentioned gun carriers set the stage for chaos, stalling efforts to capture the suspect in the Wednesday night shooting that killed three people.
None of the armed civilians fired their weapons, and the suspect managed to flee the store.

Police began combing through store security camera footage to identify him and determined whether he had an accomplice.

“Once the building was safe…. we started reviewing that [surveillance video] as quickly as we could,” Victor Avila, a spokesman for the Thornton Police Department, told reporters.

But the videos showed several people in the store with their guns drawn. That forced detectives to watch more video, following the armed shoppers throughout the store in an effort to distinguish the good guys from the bad guy, Avila said.

Investigators went “back to ground zero” several times as they struggled to pinpoint the suspect, he said.[/image]
Click to expand...
 
So now you are creeping through the aisles with your gun drawn, searching for targets, as is everyone else. How do you know who to shoot? If you discharge your weapon, now YOU become the hunted. Do you just shoot everyone and let God sort it out?

Unless you witness him shooting, you can't just assume it's the guy with the gun. They all have guns.
 
Genx87 said:
And yet yesterday a guy shot a mass murderer when he was in the middle of his shooting spree. Every scenario is different.
Click to expand...

Actually I do have the same question posed by the OP but with regards to the church shooting. Do people not carry their weapons into the church? Seems like in Texas the entire congregation could have returned fire. Maybe we'll learn that they did.
 
1sikbITCH said:
Actually I do have the same question posed by the OP but with regards to the church shooting. Do people not carry their weapons into the church? Seems like in Texas the entire congregation could have returned fire. Maybe we'll learn that they did.
Click to expand...

My guess is the church bans guns.
 
Perfect scenario - Unless you ask the 3 dead people.
They might find a flaw this particular scenario.

(OOPS misread the OP)

Please disregard
 
Genx87 said:
And yet yesterday a guy shot a mass murderer when he was in the middle of his shooting spree. Every scenario is different.
Click to expand...

The problem is that hardcore gun enthusiasts frequently cling to a fantasy where having a gun guarantees that they'll singlehandedly thwart a mass shooting/robbery and will make police's lives much easier.

The reality is very different. Those ideal circumstances rarely happen. As was pointed out, the church shooter had already perpetrated his crime; being shot on the way out may have hindered his escape, but it didn't prevent the crime. And in the case of the Walmart shooting, widespread gun carrying actually made things worse by giving the suspect a chance to escape.

This isn't to say that we should ban guns, or even ban carrying your gun in public; as shortylickens pointed out, there are times where it works. Just that we should stop pretending that more gun ownership means significantly safer communities, and that gun control is somehow anathema to a safe society.
 
Wonder if question asked of both extremes...

Ban all guns
Arm every citizen and allow carry in every state in every location.

Which makes us safer?
 
senseamp said:
Why do you need to go to Walmart? There is Amazon, and they deliver to your home, so you don't get shot at the store.
Click to expand...

IKR.... I have been internet shopping for nearly 15 years now. For lazy folk, there is no better option.
 
HomerJS said:
Wonder if question asked of both extremes...

Ban all guns
Arm every citizen and allow carry in every state in every location.

Which makes us safer?
Click to expand...

Neither, gun violence reduction is not tied to banning guns. Safety is not tied to owning guns.
 
HomerJS said:
This story didn't even break through all the Trump clutter. An armed gunman walked into a Walmart, shot 3 people and walked out. People inside the store who were carrying guns took a defensive position and brandished their guns...
Click to expand...
It depends on the laws in every State, here in Texas an legally armed citizen could shoot and kill the shooter without legal repercussion, but in Colorado they would probably still be charged and jailed and have to use an "affirmative defense". Why risk it? Instead just protect yourself and your family.
 
Genx87 said:
Neither, gun violence reduction is not tied to banning guns. Safety is not tied to owning guns.
Click to expand...

I don't know about banning guns, since we don't do that here, but there's a strong correlation between the firearm death rate and the state's gun laws:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state

If you sort by rate, the list almost reads exactly like a political map of the US, where the highest death rates are the redest states and the lowest are the bluest. It isn't exactly like that, but very close.
 
woolfe9998 said:
I don't know about banning guns, since we don't do that here, but there's a strong correlation between the firearm death rate and the state's gun laws:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state

If you sort by rate, the list almost reads exactly like a political map of the US, where the highest death rates are the redest states and the lowest are the bluest. It isn't exactly like that, but very close.
Click to expand...
Death rates, which include suicide and include justifiable homicide. Thanks
 
There is no perfect scenario. And only a total dumbass beleives good guys with guns never stop bad guys with guns- it happens all the time. Leftists and the dumb fictions they create for themselves.

Hell, another good guy with a gun stopped a church shooting just a couple months ago. Guess everyone forgot because the death toll wasn't higher, thanks to the man who stopped it.

http://wkrn.com/2017/09/24/breaking-church-shooting-in-antioch-sunday/
 
imported_tajmahal said:
Experience? You should know by now that I live in Harris County, Texas. I've said it often enough and talked about it. Ohh wait, your'e a fucking liar and an idiot. Sorry, i forgot for a few seconds.
Click to expand...

Tajbot is projecting again must have kicked into duhvert mode when asked for evidence. BTW that still isn't evidence to support the claim made originally.
 
imported_tajmahal said:
No mass murderer cares what the signs say, only law abiding citizens do. Oh wait, you're a fucking idiot, so nevermind.
Click to expand...

And you called me the idiot. When you allow everyone to carry weapons, and then ban them in church, the church becomes a canned hunt. Stupid church banned guns knowing they were leaving the congregation defenseless. Oops.
 
HomerJS said:
Wonder if question asked of both extremes...

Ban all guns
Arm every citizen and allow carry in every state in every location.

Which makes us safer?
Click to expand...
Moot point because neither are a good idea or even remotely possible. Until both sides acknowledge that fact and stop making ridiculous claims and arguments we won't make any progress on this problem.

More guns statistically equals more accidents and even intentional misuse, but almost all guns in this country (99%+) are used safely and never hurt anything more than a tin can, paper target or a deer. We could do a better job with our "instant" background checks, and much more has to be done to identify violent individuals, especially those who commit domestic violence, and strip them of their gun ownership rights. We also need to care for our fellow man and stop letting those with mental illness fall through the cracks. There is no easy answer to reducing violence in our society.

All those gun owners in that Walmart who took up defensive position were smart as heck. They were ready to defend themselves and others had the shooter come their way. Tough cookies if that slowed the cop's investigation down a bit. Not dying > making it easy to identify shooter.
 
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