Per Fox News Red States Are Packed

[WelshBloke]

It's a factor.

Educational attainment and obesity: A systematic review - PMC

Although previous systematic reviews considered the relationship between socioeconomic status and obesity, almost 200 peer-reviewed articles have been published since the last review on that topic, and this paper focuses specifically on education, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Or to put it simply.

 

[Maxima1]

Genetics doesn't play a big enough role in a short period of time to account for the drastic increase in obesity over a few decades. We can agree that there are some people who are more prone to obesity regardless of diet, and we can agree that diet / exercise / lifestyle is a contributor for many others.

Genes are commonly amplified by the context of the environment. Genes play a huge role in obesity in the context of an environment with calorie dense processed foods, no scarcity of said food, and no necessity for physical engagement.

Neurobehavioral correlates of obesity are largely heritable

Obesity is a widespread heritable health condition. Evidence from psychology, cognitive neuroscience, and genetics has proposed links between obesity and the brain. The current study tested whether the heritable variance in body mass index (BMI) is explained by brain and behavioral factors in a...

www.pnas.org

Prevalence of Obesity Among Adults, by Household Income and Education

Studies have suggested that obesity prevalence varies by income and educational level, although patterns might differ between high-income and low-income countries (1–3). Previous analyses of U.S. data

www.cdc.gov

The difference between educated and non-educated really isn't that striking to me. If you were to account for income differences, selection into college, who associates with whom post-higher education, etc.., it seems to me that education itself wouldn't be able to have much at all to possibly account for.

The age-adjusted prevalence of obesity among college graduates was lower (27.8%) than among those with some college (40.6%) and those who were high school graduates or less (40.0%).

It's pretty telling that "some college" is essentially the same as "high school graduates or less".

On a "kinda" side note. I find it humorous that a poster with a history of chastising low IQ people for being low IQ doesn't think that low IQ has anything to do with obesity.

I said I've not seen a suggestion of considerable overlap with a relation to educational attainment or intelligence. That doesn't indicate I believe there is none whatsoever. From what I've seen, they've identified genes affecting metabolism, satiation, etc..

How did I chastise them? I'm surprised you didn't see the irony of this thread since several of the states Fanatical Meat suggested as evidence have large minority pops dragging down the IQ number when this thread was suppose to be a dig at white conservatives....

 

[ch33zw1z]

Genes are commonly amplified by the context of the environment. Genes play a huge role in obesity in the context of an environment with calorie dense processed foods, no scarcity of said food, and no necessity for physical engagement.

Neurobehavioral correlates of obesity are largely heritable

Obesity is a widespread heritable health condition. Evidence from psychology, cognitive neuroscience, and genetics has proposed links between obesity and the brain. The current study tested whether the heritable variance in body mass index (BMI) is explained by brain and behavioral factors in a...

www.pnas.org

Prevalence of Obesity Among Adults, by Household Income and Education

Studies have suggested that obesity prevalence varies by income and educational level, although patterns might differ between high-income and low-income countries (1–3). Previous analyses of U.S. data

www.cdc.gov

The difference between educated and non-educated really isn't that striking to me. If you were to account for income differences, selection into college, who associates with whom post-higher education, etc.., it seems to me that education itself wouldn't be able to have much at all to possibly account for.

The age-adjusted prevalence of obesity among college graduates was lower (27.8%) than among those with some college (40.6%) and those who were high school graduates or less (40.0%).

It's pretty telling that "some college" is essentially the same as "high school graduates or less".



I said I've not seen a suggestion of considerable overlap with a relation to educational attainment or intelligence. That doesn't indicate I believe there is none whatsoever. From what I've seen, they've identified genes affecting metabolism, satiation, etc..

How did I chastise them? I'm surprised you didn't see the irony of this thread since several of the states Fanatical Meat suggested as evidence have large minority pops dragging down the IQ number when this thread was suppose to be a dig at white conservatives....

Oh, I meant someonesmind jumping all over the low IQ's

Yea, we can agree that diet / exercise / life style is the main culprit. Genetics, however, would define someone people as predisposed to obesity regardless of these variables.

So what changed? Did genetics transform in the course of half a century to create an obesity outbreak? Well, no....our lifestyles did. People who would typically be a average weight now live more seditary lifestyles and consume sugar in large quantities.

A genetic shift of that degree would take the hand of a god, as evolution wouldn't change things that fast. So we can certainly find common ground with environment variables (diet, exercise).

And of course, studies indicate education level in some groups is a factor. The problem with blaming l genetics primarily is that humans will easily use that to say yolo and continue their current behaviors, as well as it's false.

Here's an interesting article about how genetics can come into play, and it involves the calorie dense foods like you mentioned in terms of overeating (which Americans are quite certainly guilty of). Again, lifestyle.

Anti-starvation trick that saved our ancestors may underlie obesity epidemic

A molecular 'trick' that kept our ancient ancestors from starving may now be contributing to the obesity epidemic, a new study finds.

www.sciencedaily.com

 

[Starbuck1975]

Education has a direct correlation to income which in turn financially provides access to more nutritious meal options. A working parent in an affluent suburb has the budget and options to pick up a nutritious meal on the way home from work. A working parent in say Alabama probably has a handful of fast food options, if that.

But sure, let’s point and laugh at the fatties for being victims of socio economic dynamics far beyond their control.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Education has a direct correlation to income which in turn financially provides access to more nutritious meal options. A working parent in an affluent suburb has the budget and options to pick up a nutritious meal on the way home from work. A working parent in say Alabama probably has a handful of fast food options, if that.

But sure, let’s point and laugh at the fatties for being victims of socio economic dynamics far beyond their control.

Who says it's beyond their control? They can vote for different options.

Also, people could spend time preparing their own foods instead of buying it at a fast food restaurant. It's healthier, far lower in salt, sugar, and saturated fats. Heck, even that affluent suburb dweller may not know that their nutritious prepared meal is full of junk.

So much for personal responsibility.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Who says it's beyond their control? They can vote for different options.

Also, people could spend time preparing their own foods instead of buying it at a fast food restaurant. It's healthier, far lower in salt, sugar, and saturated fats. Heck, even that affluent suburb dweller may not know that their nutritious prepared meal is full of junk.

So much for personal responsibility.

Check your privilege.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Check your privilege.

my privilege? lol, what a cop out. My "privilege" includes a life long ailment that forced me onto a "clean" diet. Turns out, rice a beans ain't so bad. fresh fruits and veg, not so bad. it's more time consuming to eat that way, but it's worth it from health perspective. And guess what, more cost effective than eating out. My only regret is that I didn't go on this diet much sooner, like at 3 years old.

You should practice what you preach more often.

 

[pmv]

Stats are complicated things. For one thing, I bet all that excess body mass is by no means attached exclusively to the Republican voters in those states.

It seems to be a clear pattern that obesity is, for women, strongly (and inversely) correlated to social class (and in the US, also to race - black women tending to have the larger BMI).

For men, from both the stats I've seen and from just observing my neighbours, it's not so simple relationship. That seems fairly easy to explain, seems obvious there are a lot of relevant cultural and practical factors, to do with class and money, that are different for men and women.

For women, especially in the US, being thin is a marker of superior class status, so posh women will work very hard to avoid being confused with the proles.

And women are more likely to be expected to have the food-preparation duties, and childcare, and that's probably especially so for poorer women. For poorer people in particular the women are less likely than the menfolk to be out and about doing calorie-burning things and more likely to be around food a lot.

It's funny though how it becomes ideological, how the concequences of material, practical things, become enshrined and reinforced in culture - e.g. the working class blokes I've known who were on principle severely averse to any of 'that salad crap' (or the association of meat-eating with manliness that seems stronger in some cultures than others).

And yet at the same time there seems to be a tendency in some working-class communities to see body-fat as being a feminine thing, more acceptable on women than men. Which goes directly against the other social pressure on women in general to be thin (something which to me seems very intertwined with class). But it seems as if for a bloke you have to keep your body-fat down by physical activity not by worrying about what you eat. Doing the latter makes you suspiciously feminine.

Anyway, disparaging red-states for being fat is too close to class-snobbery for my liking.

 

[pmv]

my privilege? lol, what a cop out. My "privilege" includes a life long ailment that forced me onto a "clean" diet. Turns out, rice a beans ain't so bad. fresh fruits and veg, not so bad. it's more time consuming to eat that way, but it's worth it from health perspective. And guess what, more cost effective than eating out. My only regret is that I didn't go on this diet when much sooner, like at 3 years old.

You should practice what you preach more often.

I disagree. I dunno, I guess the US just doesn't 'do' class in the same way. Seems to me that sneers about body fat are very often just disguised class-hatred, with a misogynist twist. I see it all the time.

On the whole, I've known more overweight working-class women with instinctively left-wing views, and lots of thin gym-going people who are Tory bastards.

Personally I wouldn't turn it into any sort of 'moral' issue. It's just public health.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I disagree. I dunno, I guess the US just doesn't 'do' class in the same way. Seemsto me that sneers about body fat are very often just disguised class-hatred, with a misogynist twist. I see it all the time.

Well, I was raised by hard working poor conservatives, who did their best for the most part. And I'm in the middle class.

I'm not entirely sure what you're disagreement is. Eating healthier, increasing excercise, changing your life style isn't about condescension, it's about personal responsibility. I'm not here to mock others, the thread simply points out where these ailments are concentrated in the USA. Where seemingly education and socioeconomic issues would be primarily the concern about obesity.

Let's not forget, shaming is our jam. If it wasn't for shaming, where would we be? My strong religious upbringing was heavy on the shame, and you can see it all over the place in our society.

 

[Starbuck1975]

my privilege? lol, what a cop out. My "privilege" includes a life long ailment that forced me onto a "clean" diet. Turns out, rice a beans ain't so bad. fresh fruits and veg, not so bad. it's more time consuming to eat that way, but it's worth it from health perspective. And guess what, more cost effective than eating out. My only regret is that I didn't go on this diet much sooner, like at 3 years old.

You should practice what you preach more often.

Data is a funny thing. There’s a whole discussion around lunch shaming and the fact that school lunch is the most and sometimes only nutritious meal that many young kids have available to them. This cuts across race and demographic fault lines, but disproportionally impacts low income households.

I read your post as recommending they get more bootstrappy in their food choices. How do you expect elementary school children to control their diets when their parents don’t have the means to provide otherwise?

 

[pmv]

Well, I was raised by hard working poor conservatives, who did their best for the most part. And I'm in the middle class.

I'm not entirely sure what you're disagreement is. Eating healthier, increasing excercise, changing your life style isn't about condescension, it's about personal responsibility. I'm not here to mock others, the thread simply points out where these ailments are concentrated in the USA. Where seemingly education and socioeconomic issues would be primarily the concern about obesity.

Let's not forget, shaming is our jam. If it wasn't for shaming, where would we be? My strong religious upbringing was heavy on the shame, and you can see it all over the place in our society.

Heh, as so often the US use of 'middle-class' confuses me. In this context it means the opposite to me as I am guessing it means to you? Or does it?

Your health problem caused you to not be fat, but many of the most overweight people I've known had debilitating physical and mental health problems (that predated their being overweight) that made being physically active difficult and caused them to comfort eat. Not to mention some horrible social circumstances.

And "personal responsibility" is too often the mantra of the privileged when talking about those who don't do so well under the system they mostly control. Tory ministers will use the term even as they cut library funding and the NHS and propose still more road-building.

I'm inconsistent, though, because when cycling I sometimes think bad thoughts about angry 'gammon man' in his white van. Driving culture is an an under-addressed contributor to obesity.

(I guess I'm at my most 'liberal elite' when on two wheels)

 

[Greenman]

Data is a funny thing. There’s a whole discussion around lunch shaming and the fact that school lunch is the most and sometimes only nutritious meal that many young kids have available to them. This cuts across race and demographic fault lines, but disproportionally impacts low income households.

I read your post as recommending they get more bootstrappy in their food choices. How do you expect elementary school children to control their diets when their parents don’t have the means to provide otherwise?

Obviously the state should provide those healthy meals.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Data is a funny thing. There’s a whole discussion around lunch shaming and the fact that school lunch is the most and sometimes only nutritious meal that many young kids have available to them. This cuts across race and demographic fault lines, but disproportionally impacts low income households.

I read your post as recommending they get more bootstrappy in their food choices. How do you expect elementary school children to control their diets when their parents don’t have the means to provide otherwise?

Children are a different situation per the CDC website. Socioeconomic factors are reported as the primary cause of a obesity.

Yes, I did suggest that adults be more "bootstrappy", if by that you mean that cooking rice and beans, eating fresh fruits and vegetables, eating "cleaner" meats, and not spending more money at fast food outlets because they just don't wanna put in the effort means "bootstrappy". It's funny how all of sudden personal responsibility isn't your jam.

On the topic of children's nutrition, I think all children should have breakfast and lunch provided to them.

And, if the parents can provide fast food to them, then they can provide better quality foods to them at near the same costs or lower.

I would support providing MORE funding for healthier foods for our citizens that are in need of help.

I would also encourage health insurance providers to provide heavy discounts in premiums to members who can prove theyre making healthier choices and consistently excercising.

There are many options to encourage people to take their health seriously, and one of the best is education from an early age.

 

[pmv]

Children are a different situation per the CDC website. Socioeconomic factors are reported as the primary cause of a obesity.

Yes, I did suggest that adults be more "bootstrappy", if by that you mean that cooking rice and beans, eating fresh fruits and vegetables, eating "cleaner" meats, and not spending more money at fast food outlets because they just don't wanna put in the effort means "bootstrappy". It's funny how all of sudden personal responsibility isn't your jam.

On the topic of children's nutrition, I think all children should have breakfast and lunch provided to them.

And, if the parents can provide fast food to them, then they can provide better quality foods to them at near the same costs or lower.

I would support providing MORE funding for healthier foods for our citizens that are in need of help.

I would also encourage health insurance providers to provide heavy discounts in premiums to members who can prove theyre making healthier choices and consistently excercising.

There are many options to encourage people to take their health seriously, and one of the best is education from an early age.

Well, here, it would, at the least, involve not pandering relentlessly to motorists and to stop constructing a physical environment that expects everyone to drive everywhere (that seems worse in the US, the country having been designed like that almost from the start), and to stop selling off school playing fields (a long-standing Tory policy). Education, not just about food, but in general, is part of it, I agree.

It's a damn difficult problem though, because human beings have evolved to desire high-calorie food, and now there's a lot of it available (high calorie not necessarily equating to nourishing).

I'm just saying I don't agree with shaming, because again-and-again in my experience it so often comes from the comfortably-off who are in no position to pass judgement on people with different circumstances, and also it doesn't work.

And I don't agree with the original point of the thread - if you are going to make being overweight something to hold against 'red states', does that mean black women, who are statistically more likely to be obese than other groups, are also to be condemned? The problem with red states is that they vote Republican!

I don't care for 'fat activists' either, mind. I don't think 'the overweight' are in themselves a discriminated-against victim-group, but the overlap with groups that _are_ disadvantaged is obvious.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Heh, as so often the US use of 'middle-class' confuses me. In this context it means the opposite to me as I am guessing it means to you? Or does it?

Your health problem caused you to not be fat, but many of the most overweight people I've known had debilitating physical and mental health problems (that predated their being overweight) that made being physically active difficult and caused them to comfort eat. Not to mention some horrible social circumstances.

And "personal responsibility" is too often the mantra of the privileged when talking about those who don't do so well under the system they mostly control. Tory ministers will use the term even as they cut library funding and the NHS and propose still more road-building.

I'm inconsistent, though, because when cycling I sometimes think bad thoughts about angry 'gammon man' in his white van. Driving culture is an an under-addressed contributor to obesity.

(I guess I'm at my most 'liberal elite' when on two wheels)

I agree that case by case, things will be different. We're discussing the sudden rise in obesity over just a few decades.

Here in the USA, the personal responsibility mantra is typically chanted by conservatives. It's just funny that this is one area they'll conviently forget it.

Yes, automobiles do make an impact. I mean, people used to have to work to get places, to get things, to do stuff. Modern living makes life super easy.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Well, here, it would, at the least, involve not pandering relentlessly to motorists and to stop constructing a physical environment that expects everyone to drive everywhere (that seems worse in the US, the country having been designed like that almost from the start), and to stop selling off school playing fields (a long-standing Tory policy). Education, not just about food, but in general, is part of it, I agree.

It's a damn difficult problem though, because human beings have evolved to desire high-calorie food, and now there's a lot of it available (high calorie not necessarily equating to nourishing).

I'm just saying I don't agree with shaming, because again-and-again in my experience it so often comes from the comfortably-off who are in no position to pass judgement on people with different circumstances, and also it doesn't work.

And I don't agree with the original point of the thread - if you are going to make being overweight something to hold against 'red states', does that mean black women, who are statistically more likely to be obese than other groups, are also to be condemned? The problem with red states is that they vote Republican!

I don't care for 'fat activists' either, mind. I don't think 'the overweight' are in themselves a discriminated-against victim-group, but the overlap with groups that _are_ disadvantaged is obvious.

Yup, this is a big reason, IMO, that Colorado is consistently at the top of the list for healthiest states. They don't pander so hard to motorists.

I visited CO a few years back for a month of education in Denver / Boulder area. Our instructor put it like this: if you have to choose between hitting a bus full of nuns and someone on a bike...hit the bus full of nuns. If you hit a pedestrian you are fucked, I can't help you.

There were biking paths all over the place.

And I don't agree with shaming either, it's just pervasive in our puritan based society.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Obviously the state should provide those healthy meals.

It's certainly in the states best interest to ensure its citizens can be productive members of society. Maybe you can offer some motivational examples of how to approach the situation without the states involvement.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Heh, as so often the US use of 'middle-class' confuses me. In this context it means the opposite to me as I am guessing it means to you? Or does it?

Your health problem caused you to not be fat, but many of the most overweight people I've known had debilitating physical and mental health problems (that predated their being overweight) that made being physically active difficult and caused them to comfort eat. Not to mention some horrible social circumstances.

And "personal responsibility" is too often the mantra of the privileged when talking about those who don't do so well under the system they mostly control. Tory ministers will use the term even as they cut library funding and the NHS and propose still more road-building.

I'm inconsistent, though, because when cycling I sometimes think bad thoughts about angry 'gammon man' in his white van. Driving culture is an an under-addressed contributor to obesity.

(I guess I'm at my most 'liberal elite' when on two wheels)

The "middle class" I would say would be roughly the median of income levels. The median household income of the US is ~$63k. Note - that is HOUSEHOLD, not individual.

So to get a good idea of the "middle" I would say if your income falls within the range of the bottom 30% to the top 70% - I would call that the middle class.

In terms of Income, that would be roughly $37k - $100k... Again, that is HOUSEHOLD.


Basically, most people that are on this forum likely can't (and morally shouldn't) be calling themselves the middle class lol.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

The "middle class" I would say would be roughly the median of income levels. The median household income of the US is ~$63k. Note - that is HOUSEHOLD, not individual.

So to get a good idea of the "middle" I would say if your income falls within the range of the bottom 30% to the top 70% - I would call that the middle class.

In terms of Income, that would be roughly $37k - $100k... Again, that is HOUSEHOLD.


Basically, most people that are on this forum likely can't (and morally shouldn't) be calling themselves the middle class lol.

That doesn't coincide with the commonly used definition of middle class, what you're pointing at is roughly lower-middle class, depending on the area (you'd be well into poverty at 37k in the bay area).

Middle class is generally defined by property size, disposable income, value of owned items, money in the bank, things like that.

 

[Greenman]

It's certainly in the states best interest to ensure its citizens can be productive members of society. Maybe you can offer some motivational examples of how to approach the situation without the states involvement.

You can't regulate stupid. The state can't be mommy and daddy, the state can't support the bad decisions of every citizen.
I sure as hell don't want to see children hungry because their parents are to stupid to provide for them, but what do we do with kids that don't have enough to eat, but mom and dad have plenty of money for beer and cigarettes? How many people have kids that they can't possibly provide basic food and shelter for?
As decent people were compelled to care for those kids when they're young, and often incarcerate them when they become adults. I don't know how to step off that treadmill, but I do hate it.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You can't regulate stupid. The state can't be mommy and daddy, the state can't support the bad decisions of every citizen.
I sure as hell don't want to see children hungry because their parents are to stupid to provide for them, but what do we do with kids that don't have enough to eat, but mom and dad have plenty of money for beer and cigarettes? How many people have kids that they can't possibly provide basic food and shelter for?
As decent people were compelled to care for those kids when they're young, and often incarcerate them when they become adults. I don't know how to step off that treadmill, but I do hate it.

So, in other words, you offer no input, but offer shaming. Don't bother responding unless you have something different to say.

 

[Jaskalas]

but seriously, if you review the CDC's stat maps, it clearly not partisan outright....yet it's hard to ignore where the unhealthiest american populations are concentrated.

Surprise, it is also where the poorest American populations are concentrated.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Poorest states list looks pretty similar to fattest states list and lowest IQ states list.....

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Poorest states list looks pretty similar to fattest states list and lowest IQ states list.....

View attachment 12953

They are also the states with the most black folks - who disproportionately vote democrat by over 90%. What is your point? Oh that's right - you don't have one.




You just want to say "Red state bad! Red state fat! Red state are dumb dumbs! Red states are poor! Therefore, republicans are fat, dumb, and poor" Facts be damned.

The question is, why do you hate black people so much?