People who recline their seats on airplanes w/o asking...

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alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
I paid for the seat, blow me.

If you want to recline without pissing someone off, buy first class cheapskate.

When someone does that in front of me, my knees usually end up in their seat. Normally a few minutes of me tapping my legs to a song on my ipod gets them to readjust it to the normal position.

edit for spelling failure

you kicking the back of my seat would have you readjusted.
 

Xylitol

Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2005
6,617
0
76
i agree in a way... if the person behind me is already reclined, i don't bother to ask and i don't feel bad

if the person behind me is not reclined, I still don't bother asking but I do feel bad (i can't sleep well on Coach without reclining my seat)
 

Turkish

Lifer
May 26, 2003
15,547
1
81
Originally posted by: LS21
Originally posted by: Turkish
This is why I fly C or J almost exclusively. Airlines should add more business class seats anyways as they lose money on Y.

uh have you noticed how many international C/J/F/Z are empty recently? domestic are only full because of upgrades (complimentary or otherwise)

Not with neither Turkish Airlines nor SA, which are pretty much the only ones I fly with (Star Alliance) as all the rest has gone deep down the shithole. You know which airlines have empty CJFZ? The ones who claim to have business class seats which are only premium economy. Their seats suck (Delta, US Air, AA, Air France, many more), meals and drinks don't compare, facilities lack, etc. but hey, it's business class so they think they can charge 2x for it. Blow me. If the price is 2x, it better be 2x the quality. Not "just better than economy".

The only other tolerable ones from the western hemisphere are BA and Virgin but connecting through UK makes zero sense to me as I mainly fly between Turkey, Spain, Germany, and the U.S. (not recently). Never bothered with Virgin though as they don't have any decent connections.
 

Turkish

Lifer
May 26, 2003
15,547
1
81
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: JEDI
Originally posted by: thegimp03
Well, they paid for it, they can do whatever they want with it. Usually when people in front of me try to recline their seat I subtly put my knees up against it to keep it so it won't budge. Then they creen their neck around to see what's going on and I'm like, oh, that's my knee you're pushing against.

i would say:
"can you move your knee? i would like to recline my seat."

I would say:
"No."

You don't have to ask to recline with me, you just won't be able to. :)

Wanna bet?

I have had one argument with someone about reclining and have seen many others and I can tell you the flight attendants WILL take my side. If you continue to refuse, they will move you, not me, even if the flight is full. Ever sit in a jump seat for an entire flight? That's just what I've seen happen in other passenger disputes when a passenger refuses to leave another alone.

Do NOT make the mistake of thinking you are right just because you have been able to bully a few meek people on a plane before. It won't happen with me. I'll go to jail before I'll let someone like you take away the seat functions I paid for.

Repeat after me: Your freakish height is not my problem, nor will I ever let you make it my problem.

Now, go to my first post in the thread and see how I proved that leg room does NOT suffer when the seat is reclined. For you to stop a person from reclining or lose space for your knees, even at 6"5', you would have to LIFT your feet off the ground and raise your knees.

First of all, as someone who has taken 70+ European, 30+ transatlantic flights in the past 10 years, you are full of shit. I don't know about the U.S. but in Europe, seating a passenger at the jump seat is illegal and will cost a fortune to the airline in two steps: local air authority fines + when the passenger sues in court. I am pretty sure it is the same in the U.S.

Second, if there are empty seats, yes, the flight attendant will ask the JackBurton to move to another seat but there's nothing she can do if the flight is full. Capt Caveman will have to suck it up and complain to the airline post-flight as this is the best way to do it for everyone. Trust me, unless you are a bitch, they'll listen and try to compensate.

Third, if you are the type of person who would be willing to go to jail for your seat's recline, you are the type of person who shouldn't be allowed on an airplane in the first place.

Some of you ethugs have no clue when it comes to flyer manners.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: Amused
Wanna bet?

I have had one argument with someone about reclining and have seen many others and I can tell you the flight attendants WILL take my side. If you continue to refuse, they will move you, not me, even if the flight is full. Ever sit in a jump seat for an entire flight? That's just what I've seen happen in other passenger disputes when a passenger refuses to leave another alone.

Do NOT make the mistake of thinking you are right just because you have been able to bully a few meek people on a plane before. It won't happen with me. I'll go to jail before I'll let someone like you take away the seat functions I paid for.

Repeat after me: Your freakish height is not my problem, nor will I ever let you make it my problem.

Now, go to my first post in the thread and see how I proved that leg room does NOT suffer when the seat is reclined. For you to stop a person from reclining or lose space for your knees, even at 6"5', you would have to LIFT your feet off the ground and raise your knees.

You've got it all wrong. I'm not the bully, YOU are. We both have the same space at the beginning of the flight, YOU want to reduce MY space to make yourself more comfortable. And me refusing to let you discomfort me to make yourself more comfortable will not fly with me. You want more room so you can recline like you are at home, YOU buy the more expensive seat. You know damn well it's cramped enough as it is, but you don't care, you want to recline no matter how uncomfortable it makes the other person behind you feel. I'm using the same amount of space as I did when the flight started, you are going to do the same.

And if you want to escalate it, feel free to. I'll take it as far as you want to go.

Um, no. The space in which the seat reclines is MY space. You have that same space when you recline your seat. We both have an equal amount of space, reclined or not.

And, again, you lose NO leg room when a seat reclines. I have already had someone corrected when they tried too use their knees up high on my seat back to stop me. They failed and were made to stop by the flight attendents.

If you think putting your knees on my seat is going to stop me, you obviously haven't tried this with someone who does 315 for reps on the bench. Your lanky ass will simply slide up in your seat and you'll be bitching and moaning for the duration of the flight.

All seats recline (except the rear and those in front of exit rows) and all passangers in their respective classes have an equal amount of space. Period.

Your attitude will end up with you getting moved to an even more uncomfortable open center seat or kicked off a flight sooner than later.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: Turkish
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: JEDI
Originally posted by: thegimp03
Well, they paid for it, they can do whatever they want with it. Usually when people in front of me try to recline their seat I subtly put my knees up against it to keep it so it won't budge. Then they creen their neck around to see what's going on and I'm like, oh, that's my knee you're pushing against.

i would say:
"can you move your knee? i would like to recline my seat."

I would say:
"No."

You don't have to ask to recline with me, you just won't be able to. :)

Wanna bet?

I have had one argument with someone about reclining and have seen many others and I can tell you the flight attendants WILL take my side. If you continue to refuse, they will move you, not me, even if the flight is full. Ever sit in a jump seat for an entire flight? That's just what I've seen happen in other passenger disputes when a passenger refuses to leave another alone.

Do NOT make the mistake of thinking you are right just because you have been able to bully a few meek people on a plane before. It won't happen with me. I'll go to jail before I'll let someone like you take away the seat functions I paid for.

Repeat after me: Your freakish height is not my problem, nor will I ever let you make it my problem.

Now, go to my first post in the thread and see how I proved that leg room does NOT suffer when the seat is reclined. For you to stop a person from reclining or lose space for your knees, even at 6"5', you would have to LIFT your feet off the ground and raise your knees.

First of all, as someone who has taken 70+ European, 30+ transatlantic flights in the past 10 years, you are full of shit. I don't know about the U.S. but in Europe, seating a passenger at the jump seat is illegal and will cost a fortune to the airline in two steps: local air authority fines + when the passenger sues in court. I am pretty sure it is the same in the U.S.

Second, if there are empty seats, yes, the flight attendant will ask the JackBurton to move to another seat but there's nothing she can do if the flight is full. Capt Caveman will have to suck it up and complain to the airline post-flight as this is the best way to do it for everyone. Trust me, unless you are a bitch, they'll listen and try to compensate.

Third, if you are the type of person who would be willing to go to jail for your seat's recline, you are the type of person who shouldn't be allowed on an airplane in the first place.

Some of you ethugs have no clue when it comes to flyer manners.

Disruptive passengers in the US have been made to fly strapped and cuffed in jump seats, and even once on Jet Blue, tied up in the bathroom.

Why would I be willing to go to jail? Because I never suffer a bully. This becomes about more than just a reclining seat when someone tries to use physical force and intimidation to stop me from using the space I paid for. Thankfully, in my case, any time I have had a problem with a disruptive passanger, the flight crew has corrected them.

Considering that up until my mother died last month, I flew to CA and back an average of 10 times a year for the past 20 years, plus one or two vacations a year, I think I know a thing or two about manners on an airplane and how disruptive passangers are dealt with by the crew of US based airlines.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: Locut0s
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
I paid for the seat, blow me.

If you want to recline without pissing someone off, buy first class cheapskate.

When someone does that in front of me, my knees usually end up in their seat. Normally a few minutes of me tapping my legs to a song on my ipod gets them to readjust it to the normal position.

edit for spelling failure

Not saying you or the OP is wrong about the topic but seriously....

edit for elitism failure. Seriously buying econo on flights is being a cheapskate? Must be nice to be that loaded!

In reality almost everyone flying coach is doing so because that was their only option.

It's pretty rare that someone books so last minute that no better seats are available. Some that did fall to this fate would take the experience in coach as par for the course.

Flying under 2 hours I don't mind coach so much...for longer flights (california) I will do at least business.

I am trying to plan a trip to Japan and will admit that business class even is INSANE....I can get tickets all day for $1200 round trip coach...for business (first class from here to atlanta) it's $7000+ each! I am sure this is all pre-tax so I am looking at like another $10k just for the same route.

I am going to try to find out if jumping from LAX or Seattle is more reasonable as they are bound to have this as a common commute there like we have Europe here cheap.

Also to the person whining about the seats ALMOST knocking their drink over...there is a reason the airline chooses short cups.
 

matas

Golden Member
Aug 8, 2005
1,518
0
0
I only do it if a person in back of me is watching a movie or sleeping
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
I am 6' 2" with a knee that hurts like a mofo. I've had two knee surgeries, one arthroscopic to remove bone/cartilage chips after a severe dislocation (followed by 8 dislocations through the years), and another to correct it, requiring a patellar tendon relocation (remove the tendon, put it in another location to tighten and ensure proper positioning). I have 3 screws in my shin and it is often irritated by the most simple things (I can't kneel). The seat pocket, full of metal, often plays havoc with my shin.

However, I don't have that much of a problem with people reclining their seats. I fly about 1-2 times per month, it's just something you have to accept. I take two exedrines and read a book while listening to music.

If I can deal with it, then everybody else should be able to. Just shut the fuck up whiny kids.
 

erub

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2000
5,481
0
0
Originally posted by: Turkish
Originally posted by: LS21
Originally posted by: Turkish
This is why I fly C or J almost exclusively. Airlines should add more business class seats anyways as they lose money on Y.

uh have you noticed how many international C/J/F/Z are empty recently? domestic are only full because of upgrades (complimentary or otherwise)

Not with neither Turkish Airlines nor SA, which are pretty much the only ones I fly with (Star Alliance) as all the rest has gone deep down the shithole. You know which airlines have empty CJFZ? The ones who claim to have business class seats which are only premium economy. Their seats suck (Delta, US Air, AA, Air France, many more), meals and drinks don't compare, facilities lack, etc. but hey, it's business class so they think they can charge 2x for it. Blow me. If the price is 2x, it better be 2x the quality. Not "just better than economy".

The only other tolerable ones from the western hemisphere are BA and Virgin but connecting through UK makes zero sense to me as I mainly fly between Turkey, Spain, Germany, and the U.S. (not recently). Never bothered with Virgin though as they don't have any decent connections.

US Air is Star Alliance. So basically United in the US passes your sniff test, well the rest of them have the same facilities as United here in the USA. And flying first or business is often well more than 2x the cost..I'd say 4 or 5 times on average, up to 10x in some cases.
 

Turkish

Lifer
May 26, 2003
15,547
1
81
Originally posted by: erub
Originally posted by: Turkish
Originally posted by: LS21
Originally posted by: Turkish
This is why I fly C or J almost exclusively. Airlines should add more business class seats anyways as they lose money on Y.

uh have you noticed how many international C/J/F/Z are empty recently? domestic are only full because of upgrades (complimentary or otherwise)

Not with neither Turkish Airlines nor SA, which are pretty much the only ones I fly with (Star Alliance) as all the rest has gone deep down the shithole. You know which airlines have empty CJFZ? The ones who claim to have business class seats which are only premium economy. Their seats suck (Delta, US Air, AA, Air France, many more), meals and drinks don't compare, facilities lack, etc. but hey, it's business class so they think they can charge 2x for it. Blow me. If the price is 2x, it better be 2x the quality. Not "just better than economy".

The only other tolerable ones from the western hemisphere are BA and Virgin but connecting through UK makes zero sense to me as I mainly fly between Turkey, Spain, Germany, and the U.S. (not recently). Never bothered with Virgin though as they don't have any decent connections.

US Air is Star Alliance. So basically United in the US passes your sniff test, well the rest of them have the same facilities as United here in the USA. And flying first or business is often well more than 2x the cost..I'd say 4 or 5 times on average, up to 10x in some cases.

That's why you need to join Flyertalk.com forums and get sweet deals :) Also, its just my experience US Air is no different than the rest of US based airlines. Their C class service is subpar even when compared to low cost/high volume Europe based airlines. And I just didn't think of United at the time. They are crap too. Don't you agree?
 

jiggahertz

Golden Member
Apr 7, 2005
1,532
0
76
I've never had anyone ask me before they recline. I don't think legroom even occurs to short people. At 6'4" my knees go to the back of the seat in front of me when I'm seated normal. That's why I do everything I can to get an exit row. On the few occasions where people have slammed back into my knees, they either figure their seat is broken or I politely tell them that I'm sorry but my legs extend to the back of their seat. 99% of the time people get that it's cramped enough in coach.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: jiggahertz
I've never had anyone ask me before they recline. I don't think legroom even occurs to short people. At 6'4" my knees go to the back of the seat in front of me when I'm seated normal. That's why I do everything I can to get an exit row. On the few occasions where people have slammed back into my knees, they either figure their seat is broken or I politely tell them that I'm sorry but my legs extend to the back of their seat. 99% of the time people get that it's cramped enough in coach.

Is your inseam 40+"???

Even at 6'5" your knees do NOT lose room when someone reclines. The angle of tilt on the recline function puts the knees, even for tall people, at or below the axis of tilt.

I have an inseam of 34". My knees are well below the axis point. And the seats only move 3 inches at head level, which means even IF you sit with your feet off the ground and raise your knees (doing so would be childish), you lose at most an inch.

I'm 6' and have an inseam of 34". I would guess at 6'4" your inseam is 2" more than mine. I have NO issue with knee/leg room when someone reclines (and could not unless I raised my feet off the ground), and have MORE than 2 inches to spare.

Stop slouching and raising your knees.

Simply slide your feet UNDER the seat in front of you rather than lifting your knees and you'll be comfortable.
 

erub

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2000
5,481
0
0
Originally posted by: Turkish
Originally posted by: erub
Originally posted by: Turkish
Originally posted by: LS21
Originally posted by: Turkish
This is why I fly C or J almost exclusively. Airlines should add more business class seats anyways as they lose money on Y.

uh have you noticed how many international C/J/F/Z are empty recently? domestic are only full because of upgrades (complimentary or otherwise)

Not with neither Turkish Airlines nor SA, which are pretty much the only ones I fly with (Star Alliance) as all the rest has gone deep down the shithole. You know which airlines have empty CJFZ? The ones who claim to have business class seats which are only premium economy. Their seats suck (Delta, US Air, AA, Air France, many more), meals and drinks don't compare, facilities lack, etc. but hey, it's business class so they think they can charge 2x for it. Blow me. If the price is 2x, it better be 2x the quality. Not "just better than economy".

The only other tolerable ones from the western hemisphere are BA and Virgin but connecting through UK makes zero sense to me as I mainly fly between Turkey, Spain, Germany, and the U.S. (not recently). Never bothered with Virgin though as they don't have any decent connections.

US Air is Star Alliance. So basically United in the US passes your sniff test, well the rest of them have the same facilities as United here in the USA. And flying first or business is often well more than 2x the cost..I'd say 4 or 5 times on average, up to 10x in some cases.

That's why you need to join Flyertalk.com forums and get sweet deals :) Also, its just my experience US Air is no different than the rest of US based airlines. Their C class service is subpar even when compared to low cost/high volume Europe based airlines. And I just didn't think of United at the time. They are crap too. Don't you agree?

United is crap too. Internationally I've flown in the Star Alliance Lufthansa, Air New Zealand and Turkish Airways..I liked Turkish Airways, (well the food at least, a full meal on a midnight flight from Istanbul to Baku!) but I thought their seat pitch in coach was even worse than the US carriers. Actually on that flight was the only time I've ever seen someone complain about seat reclining, other than this thread..a woman behind my friend asked him to put his seat back up after he reclined it (first in Azeri, then at his request, Russian), and he obliged.. his policy was not to piss off anyone over in that part of the world :p

Lufthansa has always been an enjoyable experience for me..typically the internationally airlines are better (but even AA was on their "best" behavior on international trips, compared to domestic US trips), and I've only flown coach on long haul international routes.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
I'm 6'6 and I don't care if people recline. But you know what I fucking hate? The 4'8 douchebag who thinks he needs the seat with the gap in front, the one near the emergency exit. You're 4'8 dude, you couldn't utilize that fucking space even if you wore stilts onto the plane. On top of that, if we get into an accident, your 4'8 ass isn't gonna help a single person off the plane. You aren't even fit to lift luggage. Argh.

I honestly don't care if another giant person grabs that spot first, but when someone who would have just as much space in a normal seat takes it, man that's just asshole.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Originally posted by: marvdmartian
Honestly, charging for the first checked bag was the dumbest idea that the airlines have had, in recent memory. Especially so now, since they won't take the time to tell people their carry on is too big, and they have to gate check it. :|

I had that happen to a flight I was on... anything bigger that a computer bag or more than one had to be gate checked. Nice enough, I just stuffed my second smaller bag into my laptop bag :D.

Originally posted by: destrekor
shit yeah. I usually fly Southwest whenever I fly on my own money, and always try and do online check-in early enough so I can get 'A' group. Then, I just line up pretty early so that when they board A, I'm pretty close to the front of the line, if not the front. And then I grab one of the seats in the front row. So much legroom and can keep my bookbag right there with no issue.

I never understood the concept of Seating Areas on planes... it seems they're the most illogical thing evar. I was sitting in the middle and the person on the inside was called before me... okay, that's smart, but so was the person on the outside ~_~. Wouldn't it make more sense to seat the people from window to aisle?

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Now if a LARGE person sits next to me on a plane then we can talk about my space being restricted. :confused:
Maybe LARGE people should have to ask to sit next to you, because you're going to lose personal space and comfort level there too. :confused:

Oh if that's the case, we could share a seat ;).
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
I paid for the seat, blow me.

If you want to recline without pissing someone off, buy first class cheapskate.

When someone does that in front of me, my knees usually end up in their seat. Normally a few minutes of me tapping my legs to a song on my ipod gets them to readjust it to the normal position.

edit for spelling failure

Good work, Mr. Passive-Aggressive!
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Originally posted by: BeauJangles
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
I paid for the seat, blow me.

If you want to recline without pissing someone off, buy first class cheapskate.

When someone does that in front of me, my knees usually end up in their seat. Normally a few minutes of me tapping my legs to a song on my ipod gets them to readjust it to the normal position.

edit for spelling failure

Good work, Mr. Passive-Aggressive!

The funny thing is when the person in front of him complains to the airline's attendant, he stops and starts making excuses for his asshat behavior.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: kalrith
That's why they created the Knee Defender.

Try using one of those and see what happens.

The flight attendent will take it away from you for the duration of the flight.

Every US airline has banned the use of them and will take them away from you if found. If I find them before a flight attandent, you'll never get them back.
 

kalrith

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2005
6,628
7
81
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: kalrith
That's why they created the Knee Defender.

Try using one of those and see what happens.

The flight attendent will take it away from you for the duration of the flight.

Every US airline has banned the use of them and will take them away from you if found. If I find them before a flight attandent, you'll never get them back.

Source? I looked and found that Northwest banned them (source), but it was because it could damage the tray if someone tried to force their seat back with the knee defender installed.

And from this article: "In the US, the Federal Aviation Authority (FAA) has indicated that Knee Defenders can be used on flights."
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: kalrith
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: kalrith
That's why they created the Knee Defender.

Try using one of those and see what happens.

The flight attendent will take it away from you for the duration of the flight.

Every US airline has banned the use of them and will take them away from you if found. If I find them before a flight attandent, you'll never get them back.

Source? I looked and found that Northwest banned them (source), but it was because it could damage the tray if someone tried to force their seat back with the knee defender installed.

And from this article: "In the US, the Federal Aviation Authority (FAA) has indicated that Knee Defenders can be used on flights."

The FAA has not banned them because they are not a safety hazard. The FAA doesn't give two shits about passenger comfort, but the airlines do.

Every US airline has a policy of not allowing passengers to interfere with another passenger's seat, or general comfort. The article you found about Northwest is the year the device was released. Look harder. The problem is, after the first initial buzz the press simply didn't care about them anymore, so subsequent bans were not reported. But you will find subsequent bans reported on frequent flier forums and the such.

As for me, if I find them, I'd like to see you get them back from me.

Folks, this is ABSURD. I have shown with pictures that even for people who are 6'5", the recline function does NOT interfere with knee room unless you lift your feet off the ground.