People from England - curious about something

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,892
31,410
146
I'd like video too, though I can't hear it at work right now. I'm having a hard time "picturing" what this sounds like.


I'm looking, as well (in the meantime, you can read my article. Boom! also, just wait for the next BBC broadcast.)

I suppose it's entirely possible that you guys don't see it because you pronounce it that way, thus being completely oblivious to its abnormality?

neckbeard saying over the internet that "I pronounce it 'China,'" is about as valid as me saying that is "red," when what I see and know as "red" is actually "yellow" to everyone else.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
I've got to head out at the moment, a quick search only turns up what i believe to be fully reasonable and correct pronunciations such as this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nuw6eWEXnrk

But I'm not imagining it, countless people online have noticed and comment on it, and it's distinct such as the sound of Donner vs. Donna over here.

That's because you have an ARRR sound at the end of words, and we don't...
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
I'm looking, as well (in the meantime, you can read my article. Boom! also, just wait for the next BBC broadcast.)

I suppose it's entirely possible that you guys don't see it because you pronounce it that way, thus being completely oblivious to its abnormality?

neckbeard saying over the internet that "I pronounce it 'China,'" is about as valid as me saying that is "red," when what I see and know as "red" is actually "yellow" to everyone else.

Well get back to me with a video so I can see what you guys are talking about, I've no idea what you mean atm.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,892
31,410
146
Well get back to me with a video so I can see what you guys are talking about, I've no idea what you mean atm.

did you read the article?

also "I saw-r the news today, oh boy..."

there ya go. tis an example, anyway. pop in Sgt Peppers if you don't believe me.
 

zanejohnson

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2002
7,054
17
81
my sis was dorming with an australian girl, she was from melbowwrrrnn, austroll e a
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,892
31,410
146
since you are lazy:

Linking R and intrusive R are sandhi phenomena[1] involving the appearance of the rhotic consonant (which normally corresponds to the letter ‹r›) between two consecutive morphemes in which it would not normally be pronounced. These phenomena occur in many non-rhotic dialects of English, such as those in most of England, Wales and the southern hemisphere. These phenomena first appeared in English sometime after the year 1700.[2]


Non-rhotic varieties

By definition, non-rhotic varieties of English only allow [r][3] to be pronounced when it immediately precedes a vowel, a feature variably called r-vocalization, r-loss, r-deletion, r-dropping, r-lessness, or non-rhoticity.[4] So, for example, in non-rhotic varieties, the sound [r] does not occur in a word such as tuner when it is spoken in isolation, before an intonation break (in pausa), or before a word beginning with a consonant. Even though the word is spelled with an ‹r› (which reflects that an [r] was pronounced in the past[5]), non-rhotic accents don't pronounce an [r] when there is no vowel sound to follow it. Thus, in isolation, speakers of non-rhotic accents pronounce the words tuner and tuna identically as [ˈtjuːnə]. In contrast, speakers of rhotic dialects, such as those of Scotland, Ireland and most of North America, always pronounce an [r] in tuner and never in tuna so that the two always sound distinct, even when pronounced in isolation.[6][7] Hints of non-rhoticity go back as early as the 15th century, and the feature was common (at least in London) by the early 18th century.[8]
[edit] Linking R

In non-rhotic accents, words historically ending in /r/ (as evidenced by an ‹r› in the spelling) may be pronounced with [r] when they are closely followed by another morpheme beginning with a vowel sound. For example, tuner amp may be pronounced [ˈtjuːnər æmp].[9] This is the case even though tuner would not otherwise be pronounced with an [r]. Here, "closely" means the following word must be in the same prosodic unit (that is, not separated by a pausa). This phenomenon is known as linking R. Not all non-rhotic varieties feature linking R. A notable non-rhotic accent that does not have linking R is Southern American English.[10]
[edit] Intrusive R

The phenomenon of intrusive R is an overgeneralizing reinterpretation[11][12] of linking R into an r-insertion rule that affects any word that ends in the non-high vowels /ə/, /ɪə/, /ɑː/, or /ɔː/;[13] when such a word is closely followed by another word beginning in a vowel sound, an [r] is inserted between them, even when no final /r/ was historically present.[14] For example, the phrase tuna oil would be pronounced [ˈtjuːnər ɔɪl]. The [r] is inserted epenthetically to prevent two consecutive vowel sounds.[15] Other recognizable examples are the Beatles singing: "I saw-r-a film today, oh boy" in the song "A Day in the Life", from their 1967 Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band album, or at the Sanctus in the Catholic Mass: "Hosanna-r-in the highest". This is now common enough in parts of England that, by 1997, the linguist John C. Wells considered it objectively part of Received Pronunciation, though he noted that it was still stigmatized as an incorrect pronunciation,[16] as it is or was in some other standardized non-rhotic accents. Wells writes that, at least in RP, "linking /r/ and intrusive /r/ are distinct only historically and orthographically".[17]
Just like linking R, intrusive R may also occur between a root morpheme and certain suffixes, such as draw(r)ing, withdraw(r)al or Kafka(r)esque.

Rhotic dialects do not feature intrusive R. A rhotic speaker may use alternative strategies such as a hiatus between the two consecutive vowel sounds, or the insertion of a glottal stop to clarify the boundary between the two words. Varieties that feature linking R but not intrusive R (that is, tuna oil is pronounced [ˈtjuːnə (ʔ)ɔɪl]), show a clear phonemic distinction between words with and without /r/ in the syllable coda.[18]
[edit] Prevalence

A study[19] examined the pronunciation of 30 British newsreaders on nationally broadcast newscasts around the turn of the 21st century speaking what was judged to be "mainstream RP". The data used in the study consisted mostly of the newsreaders reading from prepared scripts, but also included some more informal interview segments. It was found that all the newsreaders used some linking R and 90% (27 of 30) used some intrusive R.
Overall, linking R was used in 59.8% of possible sites and intrusive R was used in 32.6% of possible sites. The factors influencing the use of both linking and intrusive R were found to be the same.
Factors favouring the use of R-sandhi included adjacency to short words; adjacency to grammatical or non-lexical words; and informal style (interview rather than a prepared script). Factors disfavouring the use of R-sandhi included adjacency to proper names; occurrence immediately before a stressed syllable; the presence of another /r/ in the vicinity; and more formal style (prepared script rather than interview). The following factors were proposed as accounting for the difference between the frequency of linking and intrusive R:

  • overt stigmatization of intrusive R
  • the speakers being professional newsreaders and thus, presumably, speech-conscious professionals
  • the speakers (in most cases) reading from a written script, making the orthographic distinction between linking and instrusive R extremely salient
  • the disparity between the large number of short, grammatical words that end in possible linking R (e.g. "for", "or", "are", etc.) and the absence of such words that end in possible intrusive R.
 
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Brigandier

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2008
4,394
2
81
since you are lazy:

That satisfies a good part of my curiosity, I'm going to try and search out a linguist as well and pick their brain.

English is a pretty crazy language at this point, and I love hearing about all its intricacies.
 

waffleironhead

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,076
577
136
This would be like when HAL claimed that notre dame was pronounced notra darm.
where the F do the "R" sounds come from.

This is literally the most retarded image ever, and I have no idea where you got it or what retard made it.

My favourite American Language fail is this:

notre_dame_de_paris_facade.jpg

This building is The Notre Dame, pronounced "Notra Darm"

This is an american university logo: For the University Notre Dame which for some fucking retarded reason in american is called "noter daim" Fail.
Notre_Dame.jpg

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31401688&postcount=38
 

Vadatajs

Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2001
3,475
0
0
Americans always think this, but I've never heard it before. I literally have no idea what you mean.

<-- Has a "BBC English" accent, i.e. a generic, normal, no south / north English accent.

Is that RP, or something else?
 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,883
63
91
lol "zair?"

why would you even think that?

it's always been "zed."

I think Americans are the only ones that actually say "zee." It's "zed" in nearly every language--remember that it is not unique to the english alphabet.

Incorrect. If you want to look it up, look at 5th Gear. Plus the "d" is softening to the point of a vowel=R.