Pennsylvania Voter ID Law Trial Set

[Londo_Jowo]

Because if you vote absentee you don't have to prove it.

If the method of proving it is something everyone has (utility bill) it would be fine.

If you want to make a state issued ID the criteria it needs to be phased in not rushed just before an election.

I had to show an ID to get my Texas absentee ballot request form in 2008.

 

[nehalem256]

Because if you vote absentee you don't have to prove it.

If the method of proving it is something everyone has (utility bill) it would be fine.

If you want to make a state issued ID the criteria it needs to be phased in not rushed just before an election.

And where is a utility bill considered proof of who you are?

Can I use it to buy alcohol? Or cigarettes? Or get employment?

 

[thraashman]

And where is a utility bill considered proof of who you are?

Can I use it to buy alcohol? Or cigarettes? Or get employment?

Way to name three things that don't need a photo ID.

 

[Bowfinger]

Way to name three things that don't need a photo ID.

As he has many times before. Parroting the same dumb comments repeatedly, long after they've been refuted, seems to be one of his few competencies.

 

[Bowfinger]

The state is stating that when you vote in person; prove who you are.
Where is that a problem?

If the state is preventing you from proving it; there is then a problem.

Why are you being intentionally obtuse about this? What did I just say, in the very comment you quoted:

While that's a minor inconvenience for people like you and me, it can be a tremendous obstacle for many. The inevitable result is many of these people will not get that ID and will therefore become disenfranchised.
​

Rather than me going through what "the problem" is yet again, please consider going back and reading the many previous threads where it has already been explained in excruciating detail. It's probably already been explained several other times in this thread, come to think of it, but I just don't feel like looking.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Why are you being intentionally obtuse about this? What did I just say, in the very comment you quoted:

While that's a minor inconvenience for people like you and me, it can be a tremendous obstacle for many. The inevitable result is many of these people will not get that ID and will therefore become disenfranchised.
​

Rather than me going through what "the problem" is yet again, please consider going back and reading the many previous threads where it has already been explained in excruciating detail. It's probably already been explained several other times in this thread, come to think of it, but I just don't feel like looking.

And for those that it is an inconvenience; they will have plenty of time to get over that inconvenience.

If a person wants their vote to count; they WILL ensure that the meet the letter of the law.

 

[csteggo]

Right, but I am a liar because of it.

Do you all want links or do you want to Google it for yourselves?

Do you think that having a voter ID would have stopped any of these voter registration issues from occurring? Perhaps passing legislation making voter registration more stringent would be a more intelligent approach. Actually there are a lot of more intelligent approaches. This legislation that was passed was about 1 thing and 1 thing only. Voter suppression. There is "No" other logical explanation. Please feel free to offer another plausible explanation for requiring a voter ID that not all can get to solve a problem that does not currently exist. All people should have an ID is not an explanation.. That is a statement. Every legal person should have the right to vote whether you agree with their sentiments or not. Or in your case whether or not they can logically reason.

 

[Bowfinger]

And for those that it is an inconvenience; they will have plenty of time to get over that inconvenience.

If a person wants their vote to count; they WILL ensure that the meet the letter of the law.

So be it. I've already addressed that attitude in post #106.

 

[PokerGuy]

Why are you being intentionally obtuse about this? What did I just say, in the very comment you quoted:

While that's a minor inconvenience for people like you and me, it can be a tremendous obstacle for many. The inevitable result is many of these people will not get that ID and will therefore become disenfranchised.​

​

Disfranchisement (also called disenfranchisement) is the revocation of the right of suffrage (the right to vote) of a person or group of people, or rendering a person's vote less effective, or ineffective. Disfranchisement may occur explicitly through law, or implicitly by intimidation or by placing unreasonable requirements.

Sorry, disenfranchisement not found. Nobody is guaranteed an easy opportunity without any inconvenience to vote. They are guaranteed the right to vote. Requiring ID -- something that is so basic you need it for just about everything in life -- is not an "unreasonable requirement".

If you want to vote, you have plenty of time take the basic steps needed to do so. If it's too much hassle, you don't need to do it, that's your choice. Your choosing not to do something does not constitute disenfranchising.

 

[PokerGuy]

Judge Robert Simpson said the law “imposes only a limited burden on voters’ rights, and the burden does not outweigh the statute’s plainly legitimate sweep.”


Those seeking to block the law did not show that “disenfranchisement was immediate or inevitable,” wrote Simpson.

Duh, apparently there's at least one judge with some common sense. :thumbsup:

 

[Bowfinger]

[/INDENT]Sorry, disenfranchisement not found. Nobody is guaranteed an easy opportunity without any inconvenience to vote. They are guaranteed the right to vote. Requiring ID -- something that is so basic you need it for just about everything in life -- is not an "unreasonable requirement".

If you want to vote, you have plenty of time take the basic steps needed to do so. If it's too much hassle, you don't need to do it, that's your choice. Your choosing not to do something does not constitute disenfranchising.

Sigh. There goes any hope for productive discussion. Oh well.

As I said:

"Comments of the sort, "Well if they're too lazy to get IDs, they don't deserve to vote." reveal both a parochial, self-absorbed point of view -- "it's easy for me, so it's obviously just as easy for them" -- but also a very un-American attitude -- "Screw democracy, I want to limit the vote to people like me." I'm not thrilled that we allow woefully ignorant, disinformed people to vote ... but that's part of democracy."
​

Aren't you glad you have people like me defending your right to vote?

 

[PokerGuy]

Sigh. There goes any hope for productive discussion. Oh well.

Yeah, tell that to the judge in PA who just ruled in the case who said exactly what I said. Of course, anyone who doesn't agree with your dimlib logic must obviously be beyond any hope for productive discussion.

Face it, people do not have an inherent right to have voting be perfectly convenient. Some farmer living out in the boonies might have to travel 30 miles to get to a voting station. Oh, the horror, he's obviously going to be disenfranchised

Typical drivel.

 

[PokerGuy]

Please feel free to offer another plausible explanation for requiring a voter ID that not all can get to solve a problem that does not currently exist.

Do you always wait for something bad to happen, or do you try to prevent it from happening? This establishes a barrier to prevent voter fraud, while creating no unreasonable burden on the voters. Problem not found.

 

[nehalem256]

Way to name three things that don't need a photo ID.

http://jobsearch.about.com/cs/backgroundcheck/a/background_2.htm

Employment. Yep it does. In fact, most forms of photo ID are insufficient to be employed.

And please tell where you have been buying alcohol without photo ID?

 

[csteggo]

Here's the point that many people are missing completely. American demographics and attitudes are changing. For heaven's sake we elected a black President. The people who are arguing for voter disenfranchisement are going to pay a huge price within 10 years. They are sacrificing any future for their party and their ideals. Payback is going to be a huge bitch. People will remember how Republicans tried to keep them from voting.

While I watch the Fox News guests smirk as they make their b.s. claims all I can think of is little spoiled children who believe they are getting their way. Its like "na na na" "I win".

Sadly that is what the hatred and bile the right wing has indoctrinated its followers with.

Let me say this. It doesn't matter if Romney wins and gets two terms. Because in 8 years the electorate will have changed so much that the political goals of the Republicans and the Neo-Cons and the Tea Party will be completely dead.

Unfortunately this is not completely true. There is a very real chance the next elected president will be able to choose 1 to 2 new Supreme Court Justices. This would possibly have disastrous Citizens United level decisions.

 

[thraashman]

Do you always wait for something bad to happen, or do you try to prevent it from happening? This establishes a barrier to prevent voter fraud, while creating no unreasonable burden on the voters. Problem not found.

First off, the bolded part is total bullshit. It's actually a very difficult barrier for many people. You don't see it because you completely lack something called empathy. Your argument is like saying you're for creating a vaccine against west nile virus that will kill 170000 people because 17 people in Texas have died from the virus.

 

[thraashman]

http://jobsearch.about.com/cs/backgroundcheck/a/background_2.htm

Employment. Yep it does. In fact, most forms of photo ID are insufficient to be employed.

And please tell where you have been buying alcohol without photo ID?

You should read your links before you post them. The I-9 form requires EITHER something from column A or something from columns B and C. In column B a voter registration card is valid and does not have a photo, and in column C a social security card is valid and does not have a photo. There's actually additional things in both columns that aren't photo ID's.

As far as where I buy alcohol with no ID, the entire state of Georgia. I've only been IDed a few times when purchasing alcohol in my life. Because most states don't have a requirement to check ID, and in fact prior to 2007 not a single state required it.

 

[PokerGuy]

First off, the bolded part is total bullsh*t.

Funny, I thought I just read an article about the judge ruling EXACTLY that.

Your argument is like saying you're for creating a vaccine against west nile virus that will kill 170000 people because 17 people in Texas have died from the virus.

No, a more correct analogy would be that the vaccine could cause a mild reaction in .0000001% of recipients. In that case using such a vaccine might make perfect sense, especially since the west nile virus is spreading more rapidly than ever.

 

[glenn1]

First off, the bolded part is total bullshit. It's actually a very difficult barrier for many people. You don't see it because you completely lack something called empathy. Your argument is like saying you're for creating a vaccine against west nile virus that will kill 170000 people because 17 people in Texas have died from the virus.

Your position lost in PA court and in the SCOTUS previously. You should stop repeating your losing argument and start instead exploring ways to help the trillions of people without IDs get them so as to not be*disenfranchised.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

You should read your links before you post them. The I-9 form requires EITHER something from column A or something from columns B and C. In column B a voter registration card is valid and does not have a photo, and in column C a social security card is valid and does not have a photo. There's actually additional things in both columns that aren't photo ID's.

As far as where I buy alcohol with no ID, the entire state of Georgia. I've only been IDed a few times when purchasing alcohol in my life. Because most states don't have a requirement to check ID, and in fact prior to 2007 not a single state required it.

Maybe with the ID analogy about alcohol he means you should present ID if you don't look right (underage). So for voting if you don't look right (black/hispanic) you should also have ID.

 

[nehalem256]

Maybe with the ID analogy about alcohol he means you should present ID if you don't look right (underage). So for voting if you don't look right (black/hispanic) you should also have ID.

Well considering that 1/5 people who are hispanic are illegal immigrants that would make sense.

Certainly a lot more likely than some who looks 40 actually being under 21

 

[thraashman]

Maybe with the ID analogy about alcohol he means you should present ID if you don't look right (underage). So for voting if you don't look right (black/hispanic) you should also have ID.

That would make more sense for this group. They know as we all do that these laws are designed to disenfranchise legal Democrat voters and not stop this imaginary voter fraud.

 

[D-Man]

thraashman are you sure you want to go with your quote

Arguing with a conservative is like masturbating with your left hand. It's fun for a while, then you just feel like you're interacting with a retard.

I think you just called yourself a masturbating retard I am a conservative

 

[thraashman]

thraashman are you sure you want to go with your quote

Arguing with a conservative is like masturbating with your left hand. It's fun for a while, then you just feel like you're interacting with a retard.

I think you just called yourself a masturbating retard I am a conservative

The quote is a play on a joke that I believe was a Jay Mohr joke where a friend said masturbating with your left hand feels like another person is doing it and he said "yeah, a retarded person" due to the fact that most people aren't left handed and aren't coordinated with it. And thus when I argue with a conservative, I soon realize that the arguments I'm hearing sound like ones coming from a severely developmentally disabled individual (in less PC days one would be called retarded).

 

[csteggo]

Do you always wait for something bad to happen, or do you try to prevent it from happening? This establishes a barrier to prevent voter fraud, while creating no unreasonable burden on the voters. Problem not found.

I personally am not a fan of big gov't and creating laws for issues that don't exist. I thought most conservatives, republicans, libertarians and the like believed that also. Over-regulation is bad right? Or are you a Democrat?