Pelosi says enforcing immigration laws is ...

[nixium]

Originally posted by: sactoking

Originally posted by: retrospooty

all good points... But what do we do with the millions that are already here? Assume that the large majority of them comitted no crime other than crossing illegally to find work (meaning they are not idetity theifs, or other type of criminals). What is the punishment, and can they possibly achieve citizenship? If not, then the only alternative is they remain here illegally (status quo) or they get deported.

Fine them. $500 or $1,000. Not too big that it prevents them from pursuing citizenship, but large enough that legal immigrants don't feel that the illegals got off the hook.

$500 or $1000 is pocket change. Some cases cost as much as $10,000, depending on complications and legal fees.

The money is not the problem, the time is.

(1) If you're in the employment based queue, it can take years if you're from the oversubscribed countries - sometimes extending all the way till 10.

(2) If you're in the family based queue, that takes a long time too. Sometimes upto 15 years.

Treat the illegal immigrants similar to those on the employment based queue, and apply the same rules to them, including per country limits, intensive background checks, costs, english language requirement, etc, requirement to maintain work continuously during the time the application is in the pipeline; if changing jobs, start at the end of the queue again. Couple this with harsh enforcement both against illegal immigrants and their employers. Give the illegal immigrants all rights enjoyed by legal immigrants in the country.

Edit: Modify the birthright citizenship - a child should only be considered a citizen if both parents are legally allowed to be in the country.

 

[nixium]

This thread has gone way off topic.

To bring it back on topic, is there *anyone* who thinks what Pelosi said was tolerable?

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: nixium
This thread has gone way off topic.

To bring it back on topic, is there *anyone* who thinks what Pelosi said was tolerable?

I think its pretty unanimous... Dems and Reps all seem to agree, she is an idiot and is an example of what is wrong with the democratic party, not what is right with it.

 

[nixium]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: nixium
This thread has gone way off topic.

To bring it back on topic, is there *anyone* who thinks what Pelosi said was tolerable?

I think its pretty unanimous... Dems and Reps all seem to agree, she is an idiot and is an example of what is wrong with the democratic party, not what is right with it.

I agree

I'm shocked though, this is rare for P&N!

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Genx87
Another notch on Pelosi's idiocy board.

You will also note this dimwit has no plans to create an immigration policy and neither does Obama. This issue is so big and the republicans are dumb enough to leave it alone. Formulate a realistic immigration policy and the latino vote is yours.

But what's realistic? The only option for the GOP is to compete with the Dems to pander to Latinos, because any tightening on immigration would just be labeled "divisive" and "racist". The GOP can't win on this one.

Realistic immigration poilicy as in making it feasible for these people to become citizens.
Right now Obama and the Dems want the status quo which is let them flow over the border but deny them citizenship thus keeping them in a lower class of citizen forced to live in a sub culture. Create an immigration policy that can put these people onto a track for citizenship and you capture the 90% of the latino vote while also saving this country from being rotted out from a sub culture.

Really? That's not what he said at a Townhall just the other night.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: Genx87

Right now Obama and the Dems want the status quo which is let them flow over the border but deny them citizenship .

Where did you dig up that garbage from? They support a path to citizenship and securing borders. I agree with that. There are millions here working to provide for thier families. We should give them a path to become citizens... then TAX them =)

If they made enough to pay federal income taxes then they would have enough money to get their green card.

The democrats are against securing the boarder and will never agree to really securing the boarder.

Yep. All they see is a new vote with every new body that crosses that border.

If they aren't a citizen, they can't vote. Explain.

 

[cubeless]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: Genx87

Right now Obama and the Dems want the status quo which is let them flow over the border but deny them citizenship .

Where did you dig up that garbage from? They support a path to citizenship and securing borders. I agree with that. There are millions here working to provide for thier families. We should give them a path to become citizens... then TAX them =)

If they made enough to pay federal income taxes then they would have enough money to get their green card.

The democrats are against securing the boarder and will never agree to really securing the boarder.

Yep. All they see is a new vote with every new body that crosses that border.

If they aren't a citizen, they can't vote. Explain.

because they will be soon...

 

[AllWhacked]

I remember hearing an audio interview with Robert Rector from the Heritage Foundation explaining that the welfare cost alone from giving citizenship to illegals would cost us around $2.6 Trillion dollars. And that for the average immigrant, it would take 300 years (10 generations) before he and his descendants started paying back in taxes more than they took in benefits. There is also the secondary costs that illegals devalue local wages. There was a recent study performed at 3 meat packing plants that got raided and lost 25% of their workforce because they were illegal. They found that for this work that Americans won't do, that they were able to find actual Americans or immigrant workers with green cards to work these jobs. The plants got back to full capacity in less than 6 months, by increasing pay, added bonuses and paying incentives for workers to sent referrals. And to the consumer, since labor only accounts for 5-7% of food costs, this added increase only amounts to no more than a 3% increase in prices--I think a small price to pay.

I think given our current fiscal crisis, we need to reform our welfare system before we even think of any form of amnesty let along streamlining immigration. On the flip side, if we do allow immigrants we should make it easier for those who come here for schooling. I know a lot of bright foreign exchange students or guest worker who wanted to stay here, but were forced to go back. Some of those guys took their ideas home and made millions and are now competing directly against us. There is something inherently wrong where its easier to simply come here illegally and work under the table than it is to come here legally and have to go home because you can't get a visa or green card status.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: nixium

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: nixium
This thread has gone way off topic.

To bring it back on topic, is there *anyone* who thinks what Pelosi said was tolerable?

I think its pretty unanimous... Dems and Reps all seem to agree, she is an idiot and is an example of what is wrong with the democratic party, not what is right with it.

I agree

I'm shocked though, this is rare for P&N!

LOL - it takes quite an impressive asshole to have both sides agree in such a bi-partisaned manner. Most of the time we disagree just to disagree. If we can all agree Pelosi is an asshole, she really must be an asshole of special degree.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Dear Ms. Pelosi,

Why not try to push a solution to the problem instead of spouting off at the mouth about your divisive definition of what's "American"? For example, what about proposing a nationalization program through the military? Make illegals serve X years and they are a citizen. If you're willing to take a bullet, then you're a patriot. That = "American", not pandering to the illegal vote.

FOaDie,

SP

I, for one, do not want foreigners who have not gone through the immigration process serving in the US military. And we would need to do this for EVERYONE. Currently the path to citizenship legally (depending on the path taken) is 5-10 years.

So you would rather them just leech off of our taxes and suck the government teet without earning it?

Yes, the current path is 5-10 but why not just make an illegal serve twice (8 years). Our recruitment is in need of replenishment, I couldn't think of a better way.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Dear Ms. Pelosi,

Why not try to push a solution to the problem instead of spouting off at the mouth about your divisive definition of what's "American"? For example, what about proposing a nationalization program through the military? Make illegals serve X years and they are a citizen. If you're willing to take a bullet, then you're a patriot. That = "American", not pandering to the illegal vote.

FOaDie,

SP

I, for one, do not want foreigners who have not gone through the immigration process serving in the US military. And we would need to do this for EVERYONE. Currently the path to citizenship legally (depending on the path taken) is 5-10 years.

So you would rather them just leech off of our taxes and suck the government teet without earning it?

Yes, the current path is 5-10 but why not just make an illegal serve twice (8 years). Our recruitment is in need of replenishment, I couldn't think of a better way.

You honestly think its wise to have an illegal alien serving in our armed forces? With exposure to possible classified info? Are you serious?

 

[HardcoreRobot]

i think our immigration policy itself is unamerican, though we should enforce our laws or eliminate them

 

[Duwelon]

Wow, it's refreshing to see Democrats admit that one of theirs is an utter fool for once. However, there is a larger problem that I fear is being left alone which the left is just going to use Pelosi as a distraction for. We need to secure our borders, but the left has long stood in the way of doing that.

The thing is, what Pelosi said is not just wacko on her part, but a lot of people in california agree with her for various reasons. Until we have a massive shift in congress, the borders will not be enforced and even if a wide reaching initiative was underway to legalize some aliens and then actually enforce the border thereafter, there will be massive opposition from the left who wants to keep an influx of voters because as they see it, it's those darn Rich Republicans they are taxing to buy Democrat voters with anyway.

It's corrupt, it's sad, but at least we agree on something in Pelosi, lol.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: HardcoreRobot
i think our immigration policy itself is unamerican, though we should enforce our laws or eliminate them

A hard limit on immigration does seem un-American. I think we should accept anyone who is willing to conform to the law of our land, and assimilate into our culture at least enough to not be a burden to their community. If we can get 1 million people a year that would be productive members of our society, with asylum seekers etc thrown in as well, so be it. Someone who just got into this country but starts living off uncle sam from day 1 however is extremely un-American, or at least it was until this whole entitlement mentality has swept over the east and west coasts.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
I pulled the race card? This whole issue is about race. You white bread, uneducated, bible thumping lumps don't like the fact that there are too many brown people entering the country and you know it... Its not about legality, crime, or economic issues (those are scapegoat elements)... its about brown people. Anyone that says anything different if a freegin' liar. I personally welcome the rich heritage, and strong, decent family values Mexican immigrants add to our country.

Fine, then let them do it legally. Ask anyone who has dealt with the USCIS, it is a very costly PITA. There's massive amounts of confusing paperwork, long waits without the ability to get status updates, and expensive fee after expensive fee. My wife is a legal immigrant. It took 6 months for her visa to be approved to come here. It was another 5 months until she was approved to work here. It's been 2 years and we're still going through the process. We've got a (IIRC) $700-ish fee to change her 2 year green card to 10 years coming later this year.

I have no problem with those who are here illegally having a path to citizenship as long as they meet the same qualifications, pay the same fees, and get in line *behind* those who are following the rules. This amnesty talk is crap.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
You honestly think its wise to have an illegal alien serving in our armed forces? With exposure to possible classified info? Are you serious?

Why not? There are tons of legal immigrants in our armed forces, are they a risk to "possible classified info" as well? Do you really believe that we cannot modularize illegals into something useful without compromising national security? At the most, they may be a threat to our bases but even then they have limited access.

Old school thinking like "They have to go through the regular immigration process" is clearly not working. We need to think of alternative, viable solutions to deal with the bloodsucking illegals that are already HERE. It's impossible to remove all of them, may as well add some incentive for them to earn a citizenship instead of leeching off of us forever.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: retrospooty
I pulled the race card? This whole issue is about race. You white bread, uneducated, bible thumping lumps don't like the fact that there are too many brown people entering the country and you know it... Its not about legality, crime, or economic issues (those are scapegoat elements)... its about brown people. Anyone that says anything different if a freegin' liar. I personally welcome the rich heritage, and strong, decent family values Mexican immigrants add to our country.

Fine, then let them do it legally. Ask anyone who has dealt with the USCIS, it is a very costly PITA. There's massive amounts of confusing paperwork, long waits without the ability to get status updates, and expensive fee after expensive fee. My wife is a legal immigrant. It took 6 months for her visa to be approved to come here. It was another 5 months until she was approved to work here. It's been 2 years and we're still going through the process. We've got a (IIRC) $700-ish fee to change her 2 year green card to 10 years coming later this year.

I have no problem with those who are here illegally having a path to citizenship as long as they meet the same qualifications, pay the same fees, and get in line *behind* those who are following the rules. This amnesty talk is crap.

Dang you got approval in 6 months? My wife's took 13 And we didnt have an admin review either. And your right. It doesnt get any better, although you do get reprieve after she gets her 10 year card.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: blackangst1
You honestly think its wise to have an illegal alien serving in our armed forces? With exposure to possible classified info? Are you serious?

Why not? There are tons of legal immigrants in our armed forces, are they a risk to "possible classified info" as well? Do you really believe that we cannot modularize illegals into something useful without compromising national security? At the most, they may be a threat to our bases but even then they have limited access.

Old school thinking like "They have to go through the regular immigration process" is clearly not working. We need to think of alternative, viable solutions to deal with the bloodsucking illegals that are already HERE. It's impossible to remove all of them, may as well add some incentive for them to earn a citizenship instead of leeching off of us forever.

Those legal immigrants who are serving...do you have any clue as the security checks that were done to get them their 10 year green card so they could serve? Any idea at all? And if you do, are you suggesting we should by-pass those checks for illegals?

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: blackangst1
You honestly think its wise to have an illegal alien serving in our armed forces? With exposure to possible classified info? Are you serious?

Why not? There are tons of legal immigrants in our armed forces, are they a risk to "possible classified info" as well? Do you really believe that we cannot modularize illegals into something useful without compromising national security? At the most, they may be a threat to our bases but even then they have limited access.

Old school thinking like "They have to go through the regular immigration process" is clearly not working. We need to think of alternative, viable solutions to deal with the bloodsucking illegals that are already HERE. It's impossible to remove all of them, may as well add some incentive for them to earn a citizenship instead of leeching off of us forever.

Those legal immigrants who are serving...do you have any clue as the security checks that were done to get them their 10 year green card so they could serve? Any idea at all? And if you do, are you suggesting we should by-pass those checks for illegals?

Nobody is saying that we should by-pass security checks for illegals. There are always going to be ones who slip through the cracks (e.g. Marine who threw grenade in tent of sleeping soldiers), but most of the illegals who risked their life to get here want to live here and get a fresh start. Obviously there would be safeguards on background checks in place, it would be naive to think otherwise. If they don't meet those standards, they're denied. You act as if they would admit 100% of applicants which is not reality.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Dear Ms. Pelosi,

Why not try to push a solution to the problem instead of spouting off at the mouth about your divisive definition of what's "American"? For example, what about proposing a nationalization program through the military? Make illegals serve X years and they are a citizen. If you're willing to take a bullet, then you're a patriot. That = "American", not pandering to the illegal vote.

FOaDie,

SP

I, for one, do not want foreigners who have not gone through the immigration process serving in the US military. And we would need to do this for EVERYONE. Currently the path to citizenship legally (depending on the path taken) is 5-10 years.

So you would rather them just leech off of our taxes and suck the government teet without earning it?

Yes, the current path is 5-10 but why not just make an illegal serve twice (8 years). Our recruitment is in need of replenishment, I couldn't think of a better way.

Many say that the "Germanization" of the Roman army was the main cause in the fall of Rome.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: retrospooty
I pulled the race card? This whole issue is about race. You white bread, uneducated, bible thumping lumps don't like the fact that there are too many brown people entering the country and you know it... Its not about legality, crime, or economic issues (those are scapegoat elements)... its about brown people. Anyone that says anything different if a freegin' liar. I personally welcome the rich heritage, and strong, decent family values Mexican immigrants add to our country.

Fine, then let them do it legally. Ask anyone who has dealt with the USCIS, it is a very costly PITA. There's massive amounts of confusing paperwork, long waits without the ability to get status updates, and expensive fee after expensive fee. My wife is a legal immigrant. It took 6 months for her visa to be approved to come here. It was another 5 months until she was approved to work here. It's been 2 years and we're still going through the process. We've got a (IIRC) $700-ish fee to change her 2 year green card to 10 years coming later this year.

I have no problem with those who are here illegally having a path to citizenship as long as they meet the same qualifications, pay the same fees, and get in line *behind* those who are following the rules. This amnesty talk is crap.

Dang you got approval in 6 months? My wife's took 13 And we didnt have an admin review either. And your right. It doesnt get any better, although you do get reprieve after she gets her 10 year card.

Did you use a CR1 visa? That was running 12-13 months when we did it. We went the K3 route - quicker but we had to wait on the SSN/work approval. There was another benefit as well but I can't remember.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: blackangst1
You honestly think its wise to have an illegal alien serving in our armed forces? With exposure to possible classified info? Are you serious?

Why not? There are tons of legal immigrants in our armed forces, are they a risk to "possible classified info" as well? Do you really believe that we cannot modularize illegals into something useful without compromising national security? At the most, they may be a threat to our bases but even then they have limited access.

Old school thinking like "They have to go through the regular immigration process" is clearly not working. We need to think of alternative, viable solutions to deal with the bloodsucking illegals that are already HERE. It's impossible to remove all of them, may as well add some incentive for them to earn a citizenship instead of leeching off of us forever.

Those legal immigrants who are serving...do you have any clue as the security checks that were done to get them their 10 year green card so they could serve? Any idea at all? And if you do, are you suggesting we should by-pass those checks for illegals?

The checks aren't actually that rigorous, and a lot of it tends to take place months or years after the person has joined. Non-citizens can't get security clearances though, so pretty much the only jobs they do are the paperwork shuffling/cooking/painting jobs. (at least in the Navy)

I wouldn't have a problem with illegal aliens serving in our armed forces in a similar capacity.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: retrospooty
I pulled the race card? This whole issue is about race. You white bread, uneducated, bible thumping lumps don't like the fact that there are too many brown people entering the country and you know it... Its not about legality, crime, or economic issues (those are scapegoat elements)... its about brown people. Anyone that says anything different if a freegin' liar. I personally welcome the rich heritage, and strong, decent family values Mexican immigrants add to our country.

Fine, then let them do it legally. Ask anyone who has dealt with the USCIS, it is a very costly PITA. There's massive amounts of confusing paperwork, long waits without the ability to get status updates, and expensive fee after expensive fee. My wife is a legal immigrant. It took 6 months for her visa to be approved to come here. It was another 5 months until she was approved to work here. It's been 2 years and we're still going through the process. We've got a (IIRC) $700-ish fee to change her 2 year green card to 10 years coming later this year.

I have no problem with those who are here illegally having a path to citizenship as long as they meet the same qualifications, pay the same fees, and get in line *behind* those who are following the rules. This amnesty talk is crap.

Dang you got approval in 6 months? My wife's took 13 And we didnt have an admin review either. And your right. It doesnt get any better, although you do get reprieve after she gets her 10 year card.

Did you use a CR1 visa? That was running 12-13 months when we did it. We went the K3 route - quicker but we had to wait on the SSN/work approval. There was another benefit as well but I can't remember.

Nope we went K3. We did, however, get her SSN within 2 weeks after marriage.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: blackangst1
You honestly think its wise to have an illegal alien serving in our armed forces? With exposure to possible classified info? Are you serious?

Why not? There are tons of legal immigrants in our armed forces, are they a risk to "possible classified info" as well? Do you really believe that we cannot modularize illegals into something useful without compromising national security? At the most, they may be a threat to our bases but even then they have limited access.

Old school thinking like "They have to go through the regular immigration process" is clearly not working. We need to think of alternative, viable solutions to deal with the bloodsucking illegals that are already HERE. It's impossible to remove all of them, may as well add some incentive for them to earn a citizenship instead of leeching off of us forever.

Those legal immigrants who are serving...do you have any clue as the security checks that were done to get them their 10 year green card so they could serve? Any idea at all? And if you do, are you suggesting we should by-pass those checks for illegals?

The checks aren't actually that rigorous, and a lot of it tends to take place months or years after the person has joined. Non-citizens can't get security clearances though, so pretty much the only jobs they do are the paperwork shuffling/cooking/painting jobs. (at least in the Navy)

I wouldn't have a problem with illegal aliens serving in our armed forces in a similar capacity.

Thats not true. Full background checks, both here and in the host country, are done. Unless there are special circumstances (political asylum is one) if one has a record in their home country, they cant get permanent resident status in the USA. If illegal aliens want to serve, they should at least go through THAT process. And if that were the case, they can just apply legally for residency.

 

[bullbert]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Genx87
Another notch on Pelosi's idiocy board.

You will also note this dimwit has no plans to create an immigration policy and neither does Obama. This issue is so big and the republicans are dumb enough to leave it alone. Formulate a realistic immigration policy and the latino vote is yours.

But what's realistic? The only option for the GOP is to compete with the Dems to pander to Latinos, because any tightening on immigration would just be labeled "divisive" and "racist". The GOP can't win on this one.

Realistic immigration poilicy as in making it feasible for these people to become citizens.
Right now Obama and the Dems want the status quo which is let them flow over the border but deny them citizenship thus keeping them in a lower class of citizen forced to live in a sub culture. Create an immigration policy that can put these people onto a track for citizenship and you capture the vote while also saving this country from being rotted out from a sub culture. Of course you also capture 90% of the latino vote in the process.

They already have a way to citizenship. Its called LEGAL immigration.

Yeah? And how exactly would a low skilled laborer from Mexicon attain that within his\her lifetime? That is my point. We have an unrealistic immigration policy which is leading the situation we currently have. When highly education and productive people take years to attain citizenship good luck to the avg mexican migrant.

Move to India, then come to work in the USA on a L1 work visa. No experience required. No education required. No skills required.