[pcper] frame metering review 690 vs. 7970 CF vs. Titan

[Fx1]

i dont feel any lag at all on 59 FPS. i just went 51:17 on close quarters Ziba Tower 64 player.

If people are saying there is lag with this setup then i call BS because it just isnt there. Not when you cap FPS anyway.

 

[SirPauly]

It's subjective and may depend on how each person's sensitivity level or subjective taste, tolerance or threshold level is, which differs.

That is why you see such debate and discussion on 120hz vs 60hz, improvements from the LightBoost thread here at Anands, which offer tangible differences that are indeed important to gamers.

For me, ideal frame-rate is at 60 but smooth 60, and would even sacrifice performance here if the immersion is enhanced to around 40-45 but that is only one view out of the multitude of different subjective tastes, tolerances and thresholds out there. For me, anything higher has diminishing returns and have tried to test myself gauging frame-rate and horrible at it over 45 without a tool. It's the same view since 2000.

However, online multi-play and is very competitive, and where I feel may be diminishing returns may be competitive advantages and the difference between winning and losing based on an individual's subjective taste, tolerance and threshold. Understandable and respected and why flexibility and choice are so important.

 

[Fx1]

It's subjective and may depend on how each person's sensitivity level or subjective taste, tolerance or threshold level is, which differs.

That is why you see such debate and discussion on 120hz vs 60hz, improvements from the LightBoost thread here at Anands, which offer tangible differences that are indeed important to gamers.

For me, ideal frame-rate is at 60 but smooth 60, and would even sacrifice performance here if the immersion is enhanced to around 40-45 but that is only one view out of the multitude of different subjective tastes, tolerances and thresholds out there. For me, anything higher has diminishing returns and have tried to test myself gauging frame-rate and horrible at it over 45 without a tool. It's the same view since 2000.

However, online multi-play and is very competitive, and where I feel may be diminishing returns may be competitive advantages and the difference between winning and losing based on an individual's subjective taste, tolerance and threshold. Understandable and respected and why flexibility and choice are so important.

You can move the mouse around rapidly and see how well it responds. i could detect no lag at all. But this may be because i have my system set up correctly.

Whats more concerning is that i can fire 5 slugs into someone and they dont die on BF3.

 

[blackened23]

I didn't stretch anything. So what if you need MGPU? its not some rare and difficult to find technology.

All I said was its not as demanding as he makes it out to be, if you wanted 125 its easy enough to attain.

edit/ this whole discussion has been about MGPU frame times anyway, so wtf.

"bf3 isn't demanding at 1440/1600p"

"you can max bf3 out at 1440p easily"

"but it requires SLI"...

Maybe i'm missing something here, but statements #2, #3 seem completely contradictory to #1?

 

[cmdrdredd]

"bf3 isn't demanding at 1440/1600p"

"you can max bf3 out at 1440p easily"

"but it requires SLI"...

Maybe i'm missing something here, but statements #2, #3 seem completely contradictory to #1?

If you need sli to get good frame rates then it probably is a bit demanding

 

[cmdrdredd]

i dont feel any lag at all on 59 FPS. i just went 51:17 on close quarters Ziba Tower 64 player.

If people are saying there is lag with this setup then i call BS because it just isnt there. Not when you cap FPS anyway.

Everyone is a little different in their tolerances. Just like mouse lag is annoying to some and they would rather take a bit of screen tearing. There is no one solution yet. I wish there was zero lag and zero tearing. Just not possible now.

 

[blackened23]

If you need sli to get good frame rates then it probably is a bit demanding

Yeah, I've played a ton of BF3 in the past and while you can maybe get 1440/1600p to work on a single card by lowering detail a lot, I certainly wouldn't characterize it as "not demanding". With full detail the framerate will certainly be in the 30-40 fps range a lot in multiplayer, which isn't ideal to say the least.

Maybe I missed the context or something, but I just don't get how anyone could state BF3 under those conditions not being demanding. Don't you think?

I also completely disagree about vsync off with high frame caps removing/minimizing tearing on 60hz screens. But that's a different argument.

 

[omeds]

I said its not that demanding, as in its not that difficult to achieve 125 if you really want. He was making it sound like its impossible. Secondly the topic was about MGPU frame times, and in BF3 those frame rates are possible with MGPU. If he cant achieve it well thats because he doesnt have hardware fast enough, but many of us do.

i dont feel any lag at all on 59 FPS. i just went 51:17 on close quarters Ziba Tower 64 player.

If people are saying there is lag with this setup then i call BS because it just isnt there. Not when you cap FPS anyway.

For Christ sake dude let it go, many of us can feel input lag with vsync at 59fps, aswell as other drawbacks. If I couldn't feel it or there weren't other drawbacks I'd be using it. Infact you didn't even know about it until I mentioned it in this thread, when you decided to go test it. I've been using that cap method of 59+vsync for a decade and I know exactly what its benefits and drawbacks are, and its not an option for me in BF3 or other online FPS.

 

[omeds]

I also completely disagree about vsync off with high frame caps removing/minimizing tearing on 60hz screens. But that's a different argument.

I disagree with that assumption. Do yourself a favour and read this:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34693183&postcount=3

 

[omeds]

You can move the mouse around rapidly and see how well it responds. i could detect no lag at all.

I can, as can many others.

My grandmother probably couldn't detect it even without the cap, but does that mean it doesn't exist? no, it's very real.

 

[Fx1]

I can, as can many others.

My grandmother probably couldn't detect it even without the cap, but does that mean it doesn't exist? no, it's very real.

Then your PC is screwed mate because its not there.

 

[bystander36]

I'd bet FX1 would recognize the difference if he had a 120hz monitor at 90+ FPS, then went back to his 60hz monitor a week or 2 later.

It is sometimes difficult to notice it when you are so comfortable with what you use.

 

[Fx1]

I'd bet FX1 would recognize the difference if he had a 120hz monitor at 90+ FPS, then went back to his 60hz monitor a week or 2 later.

It is sometimes difficult to notice it when you are so comfortable with what you use.

I could tel the difference yeh of course.

But i wouldnt see input lag with Vsync at 59fps on a 60hz monitor. Its not there.

 

[bystander36]

I could tel the difference yeh of course.

But i wouldnt see input lag with Vsync at 59fps on a 60hz monitor. Its not there.

So you can tell a difference from 60 to 90 FPS, but say 59 FPS has 0 input lag?

Like I said, you'd have to spend time at higher FPS to get out of your comfort zone and you'd notice a difference most likely. Preferably on a 120hz monitor. It seems you are just so used to what you have, you can't fathom better.

 

[omeds]

Then your PC is screwed mate because its not there.

Yeah that must be it. :awe:

 

[blackened23]

Omeds you're speaking subjective fantasies as truth. I guess you see what you want to see.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Yeah that must be it. :awe:

Yep...$2k wasted on a PC that sucks.

 

[omeds]

Omeds you're speaking subjective fantasies as truth. I guess you see what you want to see.

If you say so. :awe:

Better tell millions of gamers, at every level from casual to pro for the last 15 years its just fantasy then.

Yep...$2k wasted on a PC that sucks.

Yeah, wish I had Fx1's PC.

 

[Fx1]

So you can tell a difference from 60 to 90 FPS, but say 59 FPS has 0 input lag?

Like I said, you'd have to spend time at higher FPS to get out of your comfort zone and you'd notice a difference most likely. Preferably on a 120hz monitor. It seems you are just so used to what you have, you can't fathom better.

What does 90 fps have to do with anything?

 

[bystander36]

What does 90 fps have to do with anything?

The higher your FPS, the less time between inputs as a new input happens before each frame is rendered.

There is also less time spent rendering and displaying the frame. i.e. reduces latency.

 

[omeds]

Lucid Virtu MVP is almost a perfect solution. I wish Nvidia and AMD would add a similar feature to their drivers. It allows you to use vsync while at the same time having the full response of an uncapped frame rate equivalent to the maximum FPS your hardware can put out.

Would be brilliant on a 120hz 1440p display, to have 120hz vsync + the responsiveness of fps far above that and no vsync latency.



Edit/ Here are the two technologies for anyone interested:

Virtual vsync

Hyperformance

 

[blackened23]

Oh good grief. Virtu MVP has been tried by many here including myself, and it is a piece of junk. It doesn't work with most games. It is by far one of the most broken pieces of software you can ever use.

 

[Fx1]

The higher your FPS, the less time between inputs as a new input happens before each frame is rendered.

There is also less time spent rendering and displaying the frame. i.e. reduces latency.

Yes and Vsync is even more appealing then because the lag gets even smaller in theory.

No tearing and no lag.

It all depends if you want crappy 1080p

 

[bystander36]

You really show stop the "no lag" talk. There is no such thing as no lag, only reduced lag, or minimal lag.

 

[railven]

Welps, I'm not really sure I understand how this microstutter stuff works to be frank, and I experience it in WoW on two separate rigs, with separate GPU configurations.

So while trying some of the things I read here, without any applied AA/IQ changes, I can get ~120 frames in Stormwind [CPU limited of course] and stutter like a mofo (CFX stutter > single card). I turn on v-sync stutter on CFX feels just like stutter on Single, but at this point, I'm literally running off one card (haha since WoW can be maxed 60 FPS on a single card.)

So, I apply AA since I want to get my moneys worth for my GPU. 4xSSAA with Edge Detection, HQ-AF @ 16x, HQ-Bitmapping, Cata AI-Off, frames are now in the upper 60s with v-sync off. Tearing and stuttering like a SoB (but no jaggies ).

I turn the frame limter on to 60, stuttering is reduced, but tearing is rampant. I turn on v-sync, stuttering is reduced some more, but tearing is gone.

I go to Shrine of the Seven Vales (new Panda land home base) and I step outside the main building, FPS tank to the 30-40s and it is specifically looking at this tree, I can turn to the right FPS climbs to 60, look to the left, same, whatever I fly around, maintaining 40-50 FPS, stuttering far worse versus Stormwind, I mean what I can only describe as time traveling (as if I were lagging.) Weird I say to myself.

I jump into a raid, 60 FPS locked, not a single stutter, and the world is my oyster.

So...I don't get it. Is this more a CPU issue? I remember reading an article in the CPU section about how Radeons stutter less on the AMD chip versus the Intel chip for some game (was it BF3 or Crysis 3?) and I can't recall the conclusion.

I'm tempted to get a 680 for SLI testing to see if the stuttering improves or gets worse.

All I had to add.