PC Sales down 14% in first quarter YoY

[Imouto]

The number one factor is time & money, then there is this small thing that's performance hit cause opengl still lags directx on that front & by a wide margin last I checked ! I'd like to know though if wine supports DX11 & what is the avg performance hit say compared to bootcamping windows on a Mac?

Well, it was news for a while that L4D2 had a 20% fps boost with its Linux OpenGL version.

Valve ain't stupid, if they're moving toward Linux I bet they have a really good reason. Call it "good enough", "cross-platform suitable" or "potentially awesome" but Valve leading the way for other studios could hurt MS big time.

 

[R0H1T]

Well, it was news for a while that L4D2 had a 20% fps boost with its Linux OpenGL version.

Valve ain't stupid, if they're moving toward Linux I bet they have a really good reason. Call it "good enough", "cross-platform suitable" or "potentially awesome" but Valve leading the way for other studios could hurt MS big time.

The key word here is "could" however in reality millions of other apps will stop this mass migration of users from windows to Linux.

I'm sorta confused that posters here ridicule linux as something that "doesn't matter" cause a vast majority of desktop apps aren't available for that platform & yet when it comes to gaming, which doesn't matter to ~90% of the general populace & corporates alike, they'll jump the ship in a heartbeat?

 

[frozentundra123456]

Conversely people don't upgrade their hardware just for the "latest OS", ask yourself this ~ when was the last time you upgraded your PC for the latest MS offerings ? The answer of course is vista, then again it was indeed taxing for the hardware available at that time not to mention it flopped more due to driver issues, but win8 is lighter than win7 on any hardware so its more of a disincentive(for enthusiasts) not to go from IVB to haswell !
The OS itself is the last thing you consider while upgrading, the performance jump you get from tick-tock is more of an issue & you know who flopped there, so stop blaming MS cause Intel's equally at fault(if not way more) than MS in this so called post PC era !

If you accept this logic, then AMD is equally at fault for not improving performance, right??

 

[R0H1T]

If you accept this logic, then AMD is equally at fault for not improving performance, right??

Sure but this is not about Intel vs AMD is it ? The market leader, in this case Intel, isn't able to push their latest products in the retail market for two reasons ~

1) Software(most of'em) doesn't need that much power.

2) The performance bump is minimal at best.

Hope that this clears anyone's doubt that I'm berating Intel, cause I ain't !

 

[frozentundra123456]

Sure but this is not about Intel vs AMD is it ? The market leader, in this case Intel, isn't able to push their latest products in the retail market for two reasons ~

1) Software(most of'em) doesn't need that much power.

2) The performance bump is minimal at best.

Hope that this clears anyone's doubt that I'm berating Intel, cause I ain't !

No you are berating intel AND microsoft, and conveniently ignoring AMD.

 

[R0H1T]

No you are berating intel AND microsoft, and conveniently ignoring AMD.

Umm what, where did this come from ? If you're gonna make accusations do that on a factual basis ! See my posts from the beginning in this thread, if you're here to argue about my stance on AMD I suggest you take a break & cool off before accusing me any further than that !

 

[lagokc]

No you are berating intel AND microsoft, and conveniently ignoring AMD.

Berating AMD for not pushing PC capabilities is like berating Belgium for not stopping Hitler. It's not that they didn't want to, but their means are limited.

 

[Imouto]

The key word here is "could" however in reality millions of other apps will stop this mass migration of users from windows to Linux.

Linux is everywhere in the mobile and server space. By introducing mobile devices into the consumer market moved from 95% Windows devices to 20% in barely 7 years. Maybe a "hurt even further" is more suitable.

Everything is feasting on Microsoft right now and they're too large and torpid to fight everything back.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

Sales of what? Windows or hardware? What hardware? Pcs or laptops or both?

 

[AnandThenMan]

...I haven't had a single customer want Win8.

I had a few. When Win8 first came out, they wanted the latest "and greatest" but when they realized what Windows 8 was actually about, they were pretty much baffled, even horrified. Honestly the reaction to Win8 has been atrocious in my experience, way way worse than Vista.

I've seen quite a bit of product placement of Win8 in a few TV shows, and I laughed out loud at them. They show the default ModernUI screen, the (usually) actress touching an icon, then mysteriously the tablet goes instantly to some application that looks nothing like what I've seen running under ModernUI.

BTW, I have one system running Win8, it's an ancient Athlon64 dual core. Runs very well, it's actually pleasantly fast. But I ignore ModernUI, and I find the desktop interface just downright ugly. The flat, near monochromatic styling just doesn't work IMO, there is no excuse for this. There are Linux distros that look better and run way faster.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

I bought windows 8 pro and recommend to all.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Thats the key issue.

Average Joe simply gives up there. And this is what OEMs and MS battles over because OEMs knows exactly that Windows 8 is a huge reason to why people dont buy a new PC. And MS keeps being stubborn and just say users needs to adapt.

This is one of the few times a giant can be removed. By doing a flat facehit into the ground by itself.

For once, I agree with you.

 

[JAG87]

I don't see why anyone is alarmed about the PC market, it's just becoming more of a niche product.

In the past:

If you wanted to connect to the internet. You needed a PC.

Write a document in word. You needed a PC.

Do shopping on the net. You needed a PC.

Be productive/do research. You needed a PC.

Obviously some of these activities are just more convenient or cheaper to do with things other than a PC. Hence the drop in demand. The market is simply aligning itself with the most efficient way to do certain things.

Yet, when it comes to productivity, nothing trumps the PC. That's where the PC excels, and that's where it will continue to thrive. Using a full blown PC for media consumption, information, etc. will continue to become less and less prevalent. Nothing MS, Intel, or anyone else can do to stem that tide.

This. I might as well quote the whole thing, I have nothing else to add.

 

[Genx87]

This isnt completely unexpected. Though I didnt think we would see these types of drops in 2012-2013. I figured it would take a few more years to see this type of implosion.

Interesting in the article I read it said tablets are expected to ship 200 million units this year vs 300 million PCs. 2014 I would imagine would have them nearly tied.

Wintel is on the verge of cracking at the seems.

 

[sm625]

Since the word "subsidized" does not appear in this thread I figured I would add it. Why would anyone want to plunk down $500-$1000 for a new notebook when they can enter into a 2 year contract and get a shiny new smartphone that can do almost everything a PC can do, and more, for free*? Hell, if your new (>2012) phone has HDMI, you can turn it into a PC that is faster than all those pentium 4 monstrosities millions of people are still running.

*It sure as hell isnt "free", far from it, but such is the magic of subsidies on the mindless masses.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Berating AMD for not pushing PC capabilities is like berating Belgium for not stopping Hitler. It's not that they didn't want to, but their means are limited.

That does not mean they had to bring out an architecture that was basically a step back, and is now only recovering to what it should have been at launch.

Edit: not that there is not plenty of blame to go around. Microsoft basically gave desktop users the finger by stubbornly refusing to leave the start button intact in what otherwise would have been a step forward for mobile use. And Ivy bridge and apparently Haswell are underwhelming at best. So I am not saying Intel and Microsoft are doing a great job right now either. By the same token AMD is steadily improving, but that improvement is basically just trying to recover from the disaster that was BD.

 

[Charlie98]

Absolutely agree. My in-laws are a prime example of this. They are running a 4+ year old Compaq with an Athlon II, 3gb, integrated graphics and 320GB HD on Vista 32. For web surfing, word docs, saving/printing their digital photos the computer does absolutely fine. The nieces/nephews play some basic games on it occassionally. It's still a surprisingly snappy machine for these tasks. They will have no reason to upgrade for several years.

That's funny, I was going to cite my inlaws, too... the typical PC user. They have an old Vista OS Athlon machine as well... use about 25GB of the 500GB HDD and could care less about any of it's components, features or capabilities. It runs TurboTax, opens up email and browses the Internet. When it eventually breaks, they will go out and buy whatever is on sale at Best Buy... irregardless of what OS or processor it has.

They did try the laptop/wifi/anywhere in the house deal last year. They spent something like $700 on a new HP laptop... and now it just sets unused in the corner. Laptop/tablets have their niche uses and users, but they will never replace a desktop PC.

I think PC sales are down because the Global economy is in the toilet, and because the capability and reliability of even a 4, 5, 6-year old computer is adequate to do what 98% of the generic PC buyers need. Hell, I'm still using my 6-year old Dell Pentium D machine upstairs as a backup... it just chugs along. And... don't tell my wife... it would probably be adequate for everything I still do today, minus gaming, albeit a little slower.

Remember back in the '60's and '70's when you were lucky to get 100K miles out of a car before you had to rebuild the engine? ...and now you can roll up 200K and more without ever going into the motor? Same thing.

 

[frozentundra123456]

This. I might as well quote the whole thing, I have nothing else to add.

Well of the four things there, only the first is really easier to do on a device other than a PC.

 

[Idontcare]

That's funny, I was going to cite my inlaws, too... the typical PC user. They have an old Vista OS Athlon machine as well... use about 25GB of the 500GB HDD and could care less about any of it's components, features or capabilities. It runs TurboTax, opens up email and browses the Internet. When it eventually breaks, they will go out and buy whatever is on sale at Best Buy... irregardless of what OS or processor it has.

They did try the laptop/wifi/anywhere in the house deal last year. They spent something like $700 on a new HP laptop... and now it just sets unused in the corner. Laptop/tablets have their niche uses and users, but they will never replace a desktop PC.

I think PC sales are down because the Global economy is in the toilet, and because the capability and reliability of even a 4, 5, 6-year old computer is adequate to do what 98% of the generic PC buyers need. Hell, I'm still using my 6-year old Dell Pentium D machine upstairs as a backup... it just chugs along.

Remember back in the '60's and '70's when you were lucky to get 100K miles out of a car before you had to rebuild the engine? ...and now you can roll up 200K and more without ever going into the motor? Same thing.

To sum it up in with crude analogy - the traditional PC is going to be replaced about as often as a toaster or a vacuum cleaner (when it breaks).

Upgrading in the consumer space is going to slow to a trickle outside of those handful of demographics which will continue to upgrade - gamers and enthusiasts/hobbyists with disposable income.

My dyson vacuum cleaner is 7yrs old, and with luck I won't be replacing it for another 7yrs. Yes Dyson has come out with some pretty snazzy new models, but not snazzy enough to compel me to shell out another $400 when I've got a perfectly good working one in my closet.

 

[Golgatha]

All of the PC makers just need to include a touch screen 120Hz IPS LED LCD monitor with every new Windows 8 PC sale and the sales will pick right up.

You must not have kids. The last thing I want is a touchscreen desktop.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

My dyson vacuum cleaner is 7yrs old, and with luck I won't be replacing it for another 7yrs. Yes Dyson has come out with some pretty snazzy new models, but not snazzy enough to compel me to shell out another $400 when I've got a perfectly good working one in my closet.

The only saving grace for the PC industry is that the average consumer doesn't have the PC equivalent of a Dyson, but rather the special-du-jour from Best Buy, optimized to fail 17 minutes after the warranty expires.

 

[Torn Mind]

I had a few. When Win8 first came out, they wanted the latest "and greatest" but when they realized what Windows 8 was actually about, they were pretty much baffled, even horrified. Honestly the reaction to Win8 has been atrocious in my experience, way way worse than Vista.

I've seen quite a bit of product placement of Win8 in a few TV shows, and I laughed out loud at them. They show the default ModernUI screen, the (usually) actress touching an icon, then mysteriously the tablet goes instantly to some application that looks nothing like what I've seen running under ModernUI.

BTW, I have one system running Win8, it's an ancient Athlon64 dual core. Runs very well, it's actually pleasantly fast. But I ignore ModernUI, and I find the desktop interface just downright ugly. The flat, near monochromatic styling just doesn't work IMO, there is no excuse for this. There are Linux distros that look better and run way faster.

Some organizations do this to Windows 8 computers:
Wipe hard drive
Install Windows 7 Enterprise.
Install the volume licensed software the organization has. They don't even care about keeping the OEM apps.

Usability of software plays a huge role in the customer experience with their computers, and Windows 8 is definitely not as user-friendly as its predecessor.

 

[Idontcare]

the only saving grace for the pc industry is that the average consumer doesn't have the pc equivalent of a dyson, but rather the special-du-jour from best buy, optimized to fail 17 minutes after the warranty expires.

 

[beginner99]

metro is just an overlay/addition to explorer shell not a replacement

AFAIK the desktop is the overlay and Modern UI is the actual new thing. Because even in desktop mode as example WiFi config has this ugly metro look. This is a main point of concern. If you make 2 completely separate UIs in one OS, at least don't mix them all the time. If metro stuff was limit to metro and using classic shell to boot to desktop and I would never see metro, then it would be acceptable but right now it's a mix.

Also Win 8 is especially unusable with a touchpad sorry, but touchpad is not a touchscreen and how MS implemented that is just plain stupid. You constantly trigger unwanted "gestures".

I tried to create a shortcut on desktop to a metro app (skype). The link was not usable and afterwards skype was gone??? Went to the App Store to install it. Now I have a skype tile in Start which says something similar to "retrieving" or so and when I click on it I'm on the skype page of the windows store and it says "app already installed". Really MS? Really? Also it's not an English version and the translations are all horrible plenty of grammar errors. It's just a terrible experience.

The solution was to just install the desktop version. Which is probably 1000x times better and more usable anyway.

 

[moonbogg]

Thats the key issue.

Average Joe simply gives up there. And this is what OEMs and MS battles over because OEMs knows exactly that Windows 8 is a huge reason to why people dont buy a new PC. And MS keeps being stubborn and just say users needs to adapt.

This is one of the few times a giant can be removed. By doing a flat facehit into the ground by itself.

Thats the thing for me right there. If my boss told me I had to use a new CAD program, then I would put my thinking cap on and adapt. Its happened before.
When I buy a PC I expect it to just work and be easy to use, especially if its any kind of pre built, a laptop especially. In an era where smart phones and tablets are so intuitive to use and easy to learn, I have no patience for an ancient OS that requires me to put my thinking cap on, play detective and huntfor basic functionality. No thanks.