Paycheck Fairness Act

[piasabird]

Women keep quiting to have babies or after they get married to someone that is more well off. So this affects the Female average wage. Maybe Women tend to be accountants more than managerial type degrees. The only way this should be applied is comparing the people in a specific occupation and comparing men and women in that occupation. This would be like saying in accounting positions women are often paid more. Then you can say in Nursing Women are paid more.

 

[DaveSimmons]

2) The only area of jobs that really favors men over women is the top tier executive jobs. Very few women make it to the top CEO type positions for any company. This IS a bit about the good ol' boy syndrome. To get these positions you need to KNOW someone that is willing to put you there. Overwhelmingly its men appointing other men. Which makes it a cycle of the same thing.

And 99.99% of white males don't get those jobs or make that much money either.

A company might have 100,000 workers and 10 of these jobs. Sadly most of us need to work for a living.

 

[piasabird]

It is also quite possible that some occupations are dominated by men and some are dominated by women.

 

[piasabird]

I wonder how many women after marying the CEO or big manager quit their job because they no longer need to work.

 

[Texashiker]

2) The only area of jobs that really favors men over women is the top tier executive jobs. Very few women make it to the top CEO type positions for any company.

I have to respectfully disagree with the "only area of jobs that favors men" part.

There is another job area that favors men, and that is dangerous jobs; dangerous as in getting yourself killed kinds of jobs.

One reason why men get paid more is because we are disposable. When it comes to a situation where someone might get killed, the man is supposed to step up so the women do not have to.

 

[Incorruptible]

Well, no, they DO get paid more.
The question is why?

In some cases its because of experience and other factors but it is a myth that women get paid 70 cents on the dollar compared to men

 

[zinfamous]

More expensive paperwork lawsuits etc not to mention no one is equal. The whole idea that two employees are equal in same position and deserving equal pay is absurd. I've never seen it have you? Some are overachievers some underachievers but with a great personalty so we keep em around some in the middle and so on.

agreed

So let me get this straight.

You are claiming that greedy corporations that will outsource jobs to China to save a nickle will pay men 30% more to do the same work?

and that is actually a logical argument.

The major problem is in accurately attributing payment differences to gender-based reasons. That is something that honestly should not exist, and I'm sure 99% of people would agree with that. It is also true that from person to person, male to male or female to female or male to female, both people likely do not deserve the same pay at the same position.

The only reasonable way to work this out is that you have a set salary for x position, and of course promotions and incentives and raises after this are performance-based. If you have an established salary, it's easy enough to track any inequality in compensation. To then argue biases after promotion is dicey, as throughout an industry, you will see variable levels of compensation at the same position.

Seems to be both difficult to establish "fairness," and difficult to enforce.

 

[Texashiker]

Seems to be both difficult to establish "fairness," and difficult to enforce.

Until both sexes are treated equally under the law and in society, should men and women be paid the same?

Sexism goes both ways. How can men be expected to sacrifice ourselves on the battlefield, hold the door open for a woman, give up our seat, pay for a meal, preform dangerous jobs,,,, but women are not expected to do the same?

Until women demand to stop being treated like a privileged class, do they deserve equal pay?

Most people will probably say yes, women deserve equal pay.

When the next Normandy beach comes along, who will be expected to go and fight and die? Will women be expected to die by the tens of thousands, or will it be men that will be expected to storm the beach head.

When the next titanic happens, will women be expected to let men go on the lifeboats first? Or will it be women and children first?

 

[Farang]

One of those women is Cathy McMorris Rogers, she's a congresswoman from eastern WA and a Republican. I think #4 in the leadership. That's why she isn't applauding.

 

[nehalem256]

Until both sexes are treated equally under the law and in society, should men and women be paid the same?

Sexism goes both ways. How can men be expected to sacrifice ourselves on the battlefield, hold the door open for a woman, give up our seat, pay for a meal, preform dangerous jobs,,,, but women are not expected to do the same?

Until women demand to stop being treated like a privileged class, do they deserve equal pay?

Most people will probably say yes, women deserve equal pay.

When the next Normandy beach comes along, who will be expected to go and fight and die? Will women be expected to die by the tens of thousands, or will it be men that will be expected to storm the beach head.

Liberals only care about disparities when it is women or minorities who are "disadvantaged"

When is the last time you have heard liberals complain about the fact that 60% of college graduates are women?

When the next titanic happens, will women be expected to let men go on the lifeboats first? Or will it be women and children first?

Already happened:

One of the features of the disaster that has provoked a great deal of comment is the stream of reports from angry survivors of how, in the chaos, men refused to put women and children first, and instead pushed themselves forward to escape

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...g-Whatever-happened-women-children-first.html

:hmm:

I guess there is no such thing as gender equality in a "foxhole"

 

[Texashiker]

One of the features of the disaster that has provoked a great deal of comment is the stream of reports from angry survivors of how, in the chaos, men refused to put women and children first, and instead pushed themselves forward to escape

Did the women willingly step to the side and let the men go first? Probably not.

Good example of womens special status in society. Until women agree to be treated equally in all forms of society, do they deserve equal pay?

 

[nehalem256]

Did the women willingly step to the side and let the men go first? Probably not.

Good example of womens special status in society. Until women agree to be treated equally in all forms of society, do they deserve equal pay?

Everyone deserves equal pay for equal work.

But as you point out with your previous example about taking dangerous jobs what women are actually after is equal pay for unequal work.

 

[Texashiker]

Everyone deserves equal pay for equal work.

I agree that everyone should be paid equally.

But, and I want to play the devils advocate, if someone demands to be treated as a second class citizen in all other forms of society, how can they demand equal pay?

 

[OutHouse]

I know for a fact my female vp makes more than the male vp she replaced.

 

[Munky]

If you understand that the typical woman will always vote for team "Vagina" no matter what, then you'd understand why most of them were cheering. Fairness be damned, if she "feels" like she should earn the same as the guy doing twice the work, then she'll demand it.

 

[HumblePie]

I have to respectfully disagree with the "only area of jobs that favors men" part.

There is another job area that favors men, and that is dangerous jobs; dangerous as in getting yourself killed kinds of jobs.

One reason why men get paid more is because we are disposable. When it comes to a situation where someone might get killed, the man is supposed to step up so the women do not have to.

Not at all. It's just that men are far more willing to do dangerous jobs than women. I was reading about lumberjacks and their industry for awhile. Basically the amount of women applicants per year to be a lumberjack is essentially zero. There are a few here and there, and those that can do the job get hired. By and large they just don't want to do such jobs. Which is why I mentioned oil fields before. It's a similar type job. Hard, back breaking, and dangerous. Because of those qualities it can pay pretty well. Still women are less likely to even try for that line of work even if they are physically capable.

Forbes did a study, as well as others, about the CEO and other high executive type positions from a differences of the sexes. They basically found that the good ol' boy system is still in place. That it's very hard for any woman to get a high executive job in a Fortune 500 company even if they are better qualified than any other male applicant for the position.

 

[Texashiker]

Not at all. It's just that men are far more willing to do dangerous jobs than women. I was reading about lumberjacks and their industry for awhile. Basically the amount of women applicants per year to be a lumberjack is essentially zero. There are a few here and there, and those that can do the job get hired. By and large they just don't want to do such jobs. Which is why I mentioned oil fields before. It's a similar type job. Hard, back breaking, and dangerous. Because of those qualities it can pay pretty well. Still women are less likely to even try for that line of work even if they are physically capable.

In my 15 years of building ASME section 8 certified pressure vessels and heat exchangers, I worked with 2 women. One woman was a welder, the other one was hired to hand out tools in the tool room.

The welder made just as much money as the men. She was a hard worker, she would get inside those vessels, weld the nozzles, come out covered in dirt and sweat, just like the men.

The tool room lady did not stay around very long. I think she worked a month and quit.

 

[Smoblikat]

So let me get this straight.

You are claiming that greedy corporations that will outsource jobs to China to save a nickle will pay men 30% more to do the same work?

HEY!! Silence, you are the reason the NDAA was passed. What are you even thinking? Bring reason and logic to a government ruled by the emotions of those who wish to leech off of the system that everyone else pays for? Absurd, you should be ashamed for finding the truth, that is severely frowned upon. /sarcasm

 

[HumblePie]

In my 15 years of building ASME section 8 certified pressure vessels and heat exchangers, I worked with 2 women. One woman was a welder, the other one was hired to hand out tools in the tool room.

The welder made just as much money as the men. She was a hard worker, she would get inside those vessels, weld the nozzles, come out covered in dirt and sweat, just like the men.

The tool room lady did not stay around very long. I think she worked a month and quit.

And your anecdotal evidence provides further proof of my original claims. Not sure where you are trying to point out here unless it was to give further proof of what I've said. If so then carry on.

 

[ElFenix]

And your anecdotal evidence provides further proof of my original claims. Not sure where you are trying to point out here unless it was to give further proof of what I've said. If so then carry on.

response != rebuttal

 

[Texashiker]

Not sure where you are trying to point out here unless it was to give further proof of what I've said. If so then carry on.

Just adding my experiences into the equation.

I probably saw 2 or 3 thousand male workers in the welding field to 1 female.

During my welding career, I saw 1 man killed, another was killed on my day off, and several seriously injured.

One of the men, the injury to his legs were so bad he could no longer work as a machinist. A part weighing around 2 or 3 tons flew out of a vertical boring mill and fit him in the legs. I did not see the incident, but I did see the part afterwards, there was blood everywhere.

Edit - here is an example of the mill the guy was using, its called a King boring mill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wWdvmnDrEE

Another guy got cut in half when a 2:1 elliptical head came loose from an overhead crane and fell on him. I was off that day.

Another guy was crushed to death, and I saw that happen. His screams still ring through my ears 25 years later.

Women want equal pay, but they are not willing to do equal physically demanding or dangerous jobs.

 

[shortylickens]

In some cases its because of experience and other factors but it is a myth that women get paid 70 cents on the dollar compared to men

Its an average across the board, and I wouldnt doubt its true. My problem isnt that, my problem is people dont realize the majority of professionals dont get paid exactly the same. They get paid what they negotiate for. At Hynix I negotiated for 18.80 and at Tektronix I negotiated for 17.50 (economy sucked in 2008 and I had to take it). Thats called reality, thats how capitalism works. You exploit resources as best you can, that includes your ass.

Only bulk laborers like burger flippers and waiters get paid exactly the same. And waiters earn what they can by providing good serving and getting better tips. They dont make the same either, so far as take-home works.

If women male 70 percent or 75 percent, thats what they earn. Its not sexism. The industry is too PC and too paranoid for that.
As whats-his-face said above, a company isnt going to nickle and dime when they could just send jobs overseas.

 

[sao123]

It is a well known fact: Where women go... drama will follow. Drama in the workplace = bad. It pays to hire only men.

/thread.

 

[LumbergTech]

If you understand that the typical woman will always vote for team "Vagina" no matter what, then you'd understand why most of them were cheering. Fairness be damned, if she "feels" like she should earn the same as the guy doing twice the work, then she'll demand it.

Wow, you really are a disturbed individual to say some shit like that...I have known women in so many contexts that worked their asses off in comparison to effort put forth by the men. I know that isn't always the case, but I don't think its legitimate to approach to life to slander women with your bitter outlook. Women are expected to stay back and do the shit that men don't want to do, and then they are disrespected for it.

 

[Texashiker]

Women are expected to stay back and do the shit that men don't want to do, and then they are disrespected for it.

I would rather be at home with the kids then see a man have his finger ripped off by a lathe.

Men are expected to do whatever it takes to provide for their families. Countless men have paid the ultimate price, and that was their lives.

When men are dying in the steel mills, building skyscrapers, bridges,,, where were the women? Safe at home with the kids, or at a cushy office job.