Paycheck Fairness Act

[UglyCasanova]

During the SOTU speech president Obama mentioned equal pay and wanting to pass the Paycheck Fairness Act. This seems like a reasonable proposal to address an issue that shouldn't exist in this day and age, I'm not sure where I could see opposition to it coming from.

After he mentioned it the camera panned around and showed the reactions of the women in the audience applauding. Then it shows a shot of these two women with their arms folded, scowls on their face, shaking their heads, and they look pissed! what am I missing here? Why in the world would they be against this? There has to be a reason does there not? I've read nothing on the act itself so maybe the details of it show the law to be poorly written and doesn't do what is intended? Unintented consequences? Just don't like Obama?

 

[shortylickens]

Maybe it will show that women actually ARENT as productive as men on average, and they dont always deserve equal pay simply for holding the same position.


OR....
Like a lot of other bills it has bullshit attached to it that people will not like, and perhaps those were the only two women in the whole damn place who ACTUALLY READ THE BILL.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Opposition can be found here:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2299254
It's apparently a big flaming pile of socialism or something. I think the woman on the right is Virginia Fox (R-NC) who doesn't like Obama or probably fairness either.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Like a lot of other bills it has bullshit attached to it that people will not like, and perhaps those were the only two women in the whole damn place who ACTUALLY READ THE BILL.

That's what I'm wondering.

 

[shortylickens]

Opposition can be found here:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2299254
It's apparently a big flaming pile of socialism or something. I think the woman on the right is Virginia Fox (R-NC) who doesn't like Obama or probably fairness either.

Most women dont really want fairness from the government. They want justice.
Which I think is reasonable.

 

[Zebo]

More expensive paperwork lawsuits etc not to mention no one is equal. The whole idea that two employees are equal in same position and deserving equal pay is absurd. I've never seen it have you? Some are overachievers some underachievers but with a great personalty so we keep em around some in the middle and so on.

 

[nehalem256]

So let me get this straight.

You are claiming that greedy corporations that will outsource jobs to China to save a nickle will pay men 30% more to do the same work?

 

[PokerGuy]

During the SOTU speech president Obama mentioned equal pay and wanting to pass the Paycheck Fairness Act. This seems like a reasonable proposal to address an issue that shouldn't exist in this day and age, I'm not sure where I could see opposition to it coming from.

Sigh. No, it is not a "reasonable proposal", it's an idiotic pile of crap that tries to legislate equal outcome instead of equal opportunity. You're right that the "issue" shouldn't exist -- and in fact it doesn't. It's been shown to be a complete myth, any measure to address it is stupid. Only the ignorant and the leftists (often the same group) would support a bill that is so stupid in so many ways.

 

[PokerGuy]

So let me get this straight.

You are claiming that greedy corporations that will outsource jobs to China to save a nickle will pay men 30% more to do the same work?

Shush, don't bring logic into this, we can't pass emotion-driven ideological BS bills if logic keeps getting in the way.

 

[shortylickens]

More expensive paperwork lawsuits etc not to mention no one is equal. The whole idea that two employees are equal in same position and deserving equal pay is absurd. I've never seen it have you? Some are overachievers some underachievers but with a great personalty so we keep em around some in the middle and so on.

Yeah nobody makes exactly the same anymore.
At Hynix the equipment techs had a sliding scale of anywhere between 18 and 40 dollars an hour, in 10 cent increments. They made up some bullshit software to calculate exactly what you were worth to them.
When I started it was at 18.80 an hour, then moved to 19.90 after 6 months, then when they shut down I was getting 21.30 an hour.

You get paid what you're worth, no more or less. If you dont know what you are really worth, try changing jobs. You'll soon learn how the free market works. You may move up, you may move down. Thats how the game is played.

Women have been in the real work force since the 70's, why have they not learned this?

 

[MarkLuvsCS]

You may move up, you may move down. Thats how the game is played.

I think you just summarized Donkey Kong in a sentence

You're right though people are just going to be paid what they're worth, and the individual has to choose if it's worth it to them.

 

[Texashiker]

Then it shows a shot of these two women with their arms folded, scowls on their face, shaking their heads, and they look pissed! what am I missing here? Why in the world would they be against this?

Any law that protects a certain group is in itself a form of discrimination.

 

[Incorruptible]

I oppose this bill for many reasons.

The myth that women get paid less than men has been proved wrong in many studies. The studies that suggest this show the numbers are fudged to make it look like they are paid less. Why would a greedy corporation pay a man 30% more to do the same job than a woman, It doesn't make sense and there is no reasonable justification for this.

In a free market men and women make different choices and there will be different outcomes. A woman who never has kids or is married does have a higher chance of making more money than the married mother becuase she gets more opportunity for promotion and doesn't miss large amounts of work due to having kids.

The government has no right to dictate to business how much they can pay an employee and this is not the role of government. If an employee and a corporation engage in a deal then that is their business. The government can get involved if one of them breaks the contract or uses force.

 

[halik]

During the SOTU speech president Obama mentioned equal pay and wanting to pass the Paycheck Fairness Act. This seems like a reasonable proposal to address an issue that shouldn't exist in this day and age, I'm not sure where I could see opposition to it coming from.

After he mentioned it the camera panned around and showed the reactions of the women in the audience applauding. Then it shows a shot of these two women with their arms folded, scowls on their face, shaking their heads, and they look pissed! what am I missing here? Why in the world would they be against this? There has to be a reason does there not? I've read nothing on the act itself so maybe the details of it show the law to be poorly written and doesn't do what is intended? Unintented consequences? Just don't like Obama?

Idiotic solution for a problem that is grounded in lifestyle choices.
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html

Arguing otherwise you're essentially saying there's a huge, glaring inefficiency in the labor market and all the participants are stupid. What's more likely given two identical top tier MBA grads (one male/one female):
1) The entire labor market is systematically mispricing the value of the identical female, while at the same time, overpaying for the male

2) The labor market is pricing in the EV of maternity leave and higher probability of turnover due to future family obligations.

 

[halik]

So let me get this straight.

You are claiming that greedy corporations that will outsource jobs to China to save a nickle will pay men 30% more to do the same work?

Dis

 

[Incorruptible]

So let me get this straight.

You are claiming that greedy corporations that will outsource jobs to China to save a nickle will pay men 30% more to do the same work?

Excellent point, This literally destroys the whole argument that men get paid more than women.

 

[shortylickens]

Excellent point, This literally destroys the whole argument that men get paid more than women.

Well, no, they DO get paid more.
The question is why?

 

[nehalem256]

Well, no, they DO get paid more.
The question is why?

It seems there are 2 possibilities

(1) They get paid less because they work less and/or take "easier" jobs.

(2) A nationwide conspiracy involving millions of participants(both male and female) to pay men more for the same work.

Sadly, it appears that Obama believes in (2). And I thought the birthers were crazy :awe:

 

[Texashiker]

Well, no, they DO get paid more.
The question is why?

Do you "really" have to ask why women earn less?

 

[werepossum]

More expensive paperwork lawsuits etc not to mention no one is equal. The whole idea that two employees are equal in same position and deserving equal pay is absurd. I've never seen it have you? Some are overachievers some underachievers but with a great personalty so we keep em around some in the middle and so on.

Good point.

So let me get this straight.

You are claiming that greedy corporations that will outsource jobs to China to save a nickle will pay men 30% more to do the same work?

Logic is not featured in the progressive mindset.

 

[werepossum]

Idiotic solution for a problem that is grounded in lifestyle choices.
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html

Arguing otherwise you're essentially saying there's a huge, glaring inefficiency in the labor market and all the participants are stupid. What's more likely given two identical top tier MBA grads (one male/one female):
1) The entire labor market is systematically mispricing the value of the identical female, while at the same time, overpaying for the male

2) The labor market is pricing in the EV of maternity leave and higher probability of turnover due to future family obligations.

I agree with you, but in fairness Eskimospy made a good point that at some level people tend to prefer people like themselves in management positions. There is some validity in the idea that white males with master's degrees will perhaps subconsciously value white males with master's degrees higher than cold hard logic would dictate. As highly educated white males for various historic reasons tend to be disproportionately represented in upper levels of management, that would tend to distort the market somewhat.

Of course, few things would be worse than government trying to fix this. Government inherently views all individuals as equal in all things; all such a law will do is prop up the slackers and knock down the achievers.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Harrison Bergeron approves.

 

[Subyman]

A major issue is the government coming in and going through the payroll of businesses. Now businesses have to justify the salaries of their employees to the government. It adds unneeded overhead.

But like others have said, find me some women that will work for 30% less and I'll hire them on the spot.

 

[HumblePie]

Here's the real crux of the unequal wage between the sexes problem.

1) Majority of women typically take lower paying jobs on average then men. They would rather be English teachers than engineers. Not saying that there aren't women engineers, because I know some damn good ones that are paid better than me. What I am saying is when you compare the average income of all women versus all men that work for a whole year, then women will be lower because of this. Women prefer working in a day care for minimum wage instead of working an oil field for a crap ton of cash.

2) The only area of jobs that really favors men over women is the top tier executive jobs. Very few women make it to the top CEO type positions for any company. This IS a bit about the good ol' boy syndrome. To get these positions you need to KNOW someone that is willing to put you there. Overwhelmingly its men appointing other men. Which makes it a cycle of the same thing.

Want to address equal wages between the sexes? Fix those two problems and see what happens.

As a side note, will male nurses, strippers, and mechanics start making as much as their female counterparts?

 

[nehalem256]

2) The only area of jobs that really favors men over women is the top tier executive jobs. Very few women make it to the top CEO type positions for any company. This IS a bit about the good ol' boy syndrome. To get these positions you need to KNOW someone that is willing to put you there. Overwhelmingly its men appointing other men. Which makes it a cycle of the same thing.

It is possible that you have a point here.

But it is also possible that becoming a top tier executive requires you to essentially devote your life to that goal for 20+ years and that more men than women are willing to make the sacrifice necessary to do so.