Paycheck Fairness Act

[s0me0nesmind1]

The concept of 2 people under the same position mandatory being paid the same barbarically laughable.

What the fuck do you think EXPERIENCE is?

 

[pauldun170]

Ah...if only it were that simple.

If your pay increase is based on a performance review, you cannot be penalized for taking protected leave. If an employee ended up with a smaller increase based on a negative review due to use of protected leave, that's an adverse action. Of course, there are some policy language workarounds, but you can increase your exposure even with those.

Even in the case of bonus or other incentives, you can only dock someone for taking protected leave if you are consistent with all other types of leave per your policy.

In the example I gave, I was trying to point out that the difference in increase was directly related to the increased workload (caused by my absence)taken by the individual who took less leave.

To also add to that, when I took leave it also involved an opportunity cost.
Projects that I could have taken on went instead to others (such as the co-worker listed)
Had I not taken leave, I could have managed those projects and that "opportunity" would have impacted yearly increase\bonus.

How does that mesh with labor law?

 

[pauldun170]

I could share my own with other employees, and they with me. I could then share those other employees information with other employees and so on and so on.

What if the employer explicitly classified compensation info in certain job classes as confidential\proprietary where such classification explicitly states "need to know"?

At first glance, there looks like there may be a loophole concerning collective bargaining but what about in cases where no such activity is taking place?

 

[Slew Foot]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/04/business/economy/04leonhardt.html?_r=1&



tl;dr: The gender pay gap is caused by personal choices made by women.

yeah, taking time off for kids hoses women over in the workplace

 

[Darwin333]

Perhaps it's bullshit, but it's rightly their call.

Rightly the employers call?

Unless contractually obligated otherwise why is it the employers business who I tell how much I make on my own time?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Unless contractually obligated otherwise why is it the employers business who I tell how much I make on my own time?

It creates problems in the workplace.

You can certainly decide that you don't think that's a good enough reason for them to bar the activity, but they do have an interest in the matter.

 

[Nintendesert]

I think everyone should support this measure, not just women. If people knew if they were underpaid, compared to their peers, people would jump and pay would rise for EVERYONE.

It's not surprising conservatives would support employers efforts to keep worker's pay down though.

Sorry, my experience is there won't be a broad upheaval of rebellion against "the man" and other employers but instead widespread animosity and contempt between the peons themselves as they fight with each other on whom has the biggest scraps from the table.

 

[PenguinPower]

In the example I gave, I was trying to point out that the difference in increase was directly related to the increased workload (caused by my absence)taken by the individual who took less leave.

To also add to that, when I took leave it also involved an opportunity cost.
Projects that I could have taken on went instead to others (such as the co-worker listed)
Had I not taken leave, I could have managed those projects and that "opportunity" would have impacted yearly increase\bonus.

How does that mesh with labor law?

Without knowing more about your policies, job or review process, I don't know.

 

[PenguinPower]

What if the employer explicitly classified compensation info in certain job classes as confidential\proprietary where such classification explicitly states "need to know"?

At first glance, there looks like there may be a loophole concerning collective bargaining but what about in cases where no such activity is taking place?

It's going to depend on the purpose of the conversation, but it really doesn't matter what you policy states. They don't have to be in process of collective bargaining or discussing unionization. They could simply be complaining about their compensation levels between each other.

 

[monovillage]

It's just another stupid fucking law that is being offered up by stupid fucking people and is prime fodder to be shut down in the Senate by a justifiable filibuster or cut off at the knees in the House. Christ, what a stupid fucking law. What is this the 9th or 10th time this law was introduced?

 

[Munky]

Figures... Two women, both democrats, feel that if a woman is paid less than a man, then it must be gender discrimination. Heaven forbid that anyone question if the woman is equally qualified and if she's doing the equal amount of work.

 

[Fenixgoon]

so what happens if one person is a shitty negotiator and the other isn't? qualifications and responsibilities aren't the only determining factors in someone's salary. Whether that's worth 23% I couldn't say though (assuming a male and female work the same job and have identical responsibilities and qualifications)

 

[Incorruptible]

Figures... Two women, both democrats, feel that if a woman is paid less than a man, then it must be gender discrimination. Heaven forbid that anyone question if the woman is equally qualified and if she's doing the equal amount of work.

Thats the problem with these people, They just like to rush to idiotic decisions instead of thinking with their heads

 

[DrPizza]

So, if there's no pay gap, then what's the issue with allowing employees to discuss their wages?

 

[monovillage]

So, if there's no pay gap, then what's the issue with allowing employees to discuss their wages?

There are, of course, many other issues covered in the Act. By focusing on a very small portion of the Act you ignore the bulk of it.

Policy Objections

The PFA would force employers to justify their pay practices with a “bona fide” factor other than sex and defend it in the courts. If employees can find an alternative business practice that does not result in a pay disparity, employers must adopt it. Under the PFA, government and the courts dictate business practices to employers.
The PFA would remove the Equal Pay Act’s limits on punitive and compensatory damages.
It specifies that workers are automatically members of a class-action suit unless they opt out.
Section 9 of the PFA instructs the Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs (OFCCP) to reinstitute the Equal Opportunity Survey (EOS) and use the survey to identify federal contractors for further investigation.

o The Department of Labor discontinued this survey after concluding that it failed to identify sexual discrimination. A detailed study found that the EOS had a 93 percent false-positive rate and a 33 percent false-negative rate. Most companies identified as discriminating did not, while a third of companies discriminating were missed by the survey. The EOS did little better than random chance at identifying discrimination.

In addition to requiring the OFCCP to use a flawed survey, the PFA prevents the OFCCP from using the best science available in discrimination cases.

Economic Effects

The PFA would facilitate lawsuits and cost jobs.

o The PFA would give a windfall to trial lawyers, exposing employers to unlimited punitive damages.

o The PFA would encourage trial lawyers to initiate many frivolous class-action suits in hopes of winning a few large judgments.

o The successful lawsuits could transfer billions of dollars from employers to trial lawyers, bankrupting businesses and costing jobs.

o The increased legal risks would also reduce the incentive for business owners to start new businesses or invest in and expand their firms, costing even more jobs.

The PFA would mean millions of dollars for trial lawyers but fewer jobs for most Americans.
Under the PFA the courts would micromanage businesses.

o For instance, the courts would have to decide: Does experience constitute a “bona fide factor other than sex”?

o A woman earning less than a more experienced man could argue that her employer should be required to send her to training and then pay them identical wages. She would have a strong case to argue that experience was not a “bona fide” factor because an alternative employment practice would eliminate the disparity.

o Government micromanaging over areas in which the courts have no business expertise would reduce business competitiveness and cost jobs.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/02/paycheck-fairness-act

 

[LetsGetReal]

Ask yourself. If you were running a business, why would you pay a man 30% more for the same work?

Because the man will show up for work, not expect favors, take responsibility for himself, accept accountabilty, not falsely accuse his coworkers of sexual harrassment, not distract his male coworkers with sexually provocative clothing / behavior. Would anyone care to add to the list? Plus a man can be fired for low performance. If you fire a woman shell say its because shes a woman and he sexually harrassed me made me feel uncomfortable inssert vindictive excuse here. etc etc.

but I digress. If an employer could get the same work from a woman as a man for 30% less, they would hire only women but they don't. Now why would that be?

 

[dank69]

Because the man will show up for work, not expect favors, take responsibility for himself, accept accountabilty, not falsely accuse his coworkers of sexual harrassment, not distract his male coworkers with sexually provocative clothing / behavior. Would anyone care to add to the list? Plus a man can be fired for low performance. If you fire a woman shell say its because shes a woman and he sexually harrassed me made me feel uncomfortable inssert vindictive excuse here. etc etc.

Did it take you 14 months to type that, or register, or both?

 

[Zaap]

What's funny to me, is that Obama himself is always guilty of every bogeyman issue the Dims drum up:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/04/0...-in-wages-his-own-payroll-draws-scrutiny.html

 

[Veliko]

Or perhaps because they don't want employees passing judgment on the company's pay decisions.

They pay the wages. If they want to distort them it's their right to do so. Let markets sort that out, not the government.

How can the market for wage disparity sort itself out if the employees are unable to pass judgement on the disparity of wages?

 

[MrPickins]

Because the man will show up for work, not expect favors, take responsibility for himself, accept accountabilty, not falsely accuse his coworkers of sexual harrassment, not distract his male coworkers with sexually provocative clothing / behavior. Would anyone care to add to the list? Plus a man can be fired for low performance. If you fire a woman shell say its because shes a woman and he sexually harrassed me made me feel uncomfortable inssert vindictive excuse here. etc etc.

LOL

LetsGetReal, indeed...

 

[Argo]

Have Obama and co. heard about a little site called glassdoor.com?

Btw, am I the only one who has no inclination to discuss my salary with coworkers, regardless of whether it's allowed or not?

 

[piasabird]

This is all bullshit. Women are always taking off to have babies or have a baby without being married and just don't come back half the time. Then often Women get married to some well-to-do guy and just up and quit their job. Women often are the cause of the gender gap.

 

[MixMasterTang]

Have Obama and co. heard about a little site called glassdoor.com?

Btw, am I the only one who has no inclination to discuss my salary with coworkers, regardless of whether it's allowed or not?

No good can come out of talking about your salary with coworkers in my opinion so I am with you there!

 

[piasabird]

Often salaries are negotiated and based on contracts for many professional people.

 

[thraashman]

Because the man will show up for work, not expect favors, take responsibility for himself, accept accountabilty, not falsely accuse his coworkers of sexual harrassment, not distract his male coworkers with sexually provocative clothing / behavior. Would anyone care to add to the list? Plus a man can be fired for low performance. If you fire a woman shell say its because shes a woman and he sexually harrassed me made me feel uncomfortable inssert vindictive excuse here. etc etc.

Dude you have two posts on this forum and both are P&N necros. One at least was only a 3 week old necro, but this one is over a year. Learn to join current discussions instead of rehashing very old ones.