Passage of the ACHA Lays Bare The Hatred and Contempt in The Hearts of GOP Voters

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agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
The morality card. Wonderful. Is that all the left has? Jesus? How do know I'm not Jewish? What do you think Jesus thinks about aborting babies? Does that make everyone who's pro choice "bad people"? You are really something.

Your amoral behavior is entirely typical of self-proclaimed "christians" in this country, as are the references to god in your comment history, and this predictable fake righteous indignation is evidence of the fact.

Isn't Mass pretty much state run "Romneycare" rather than ACA? it's an example of a state taking care of their own and not relying on the federal gov't.

As further evidence, Sea Ray knows that the ACA is substantially similar to Romneycare, that other govt HC plan. But so called "christians" have a lot of trouble with basic truth.
 
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TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,076
136
Obamacare has made choosing your caregivers much more challenging. That's why "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor" has been rated as one of the biggest lies of the Obama years.

It was certainly an unfortunate (and erroneous) statement on it's face. What he meant, he was "if you're doctor participates with an ACA compliant plan, you can keep your doctor." Essentially, the ACA didn't take away your doctor it was the plan that did. One can validly argue chicken and egg here, but it's not like Obama sat there laughing and breaking up physician-patient relationships.

My Oncologist will be filling out my intermittent FMLA paperwork this week. My coworkers want to donate time & I won't have to worry about getting fired for calling out sick. I am also going to crowdfund at some point, even it it is just to help cover deductibles & max out of pocket copays. Joint pain has driven me to the point that being a hero is over, lol :) Work is important to me though & I wish to continue as best I can.

I scan again at months end, if I am stable I might take a treatment break as I have been on this drug over two years & many are now stopping at that point. We are considering going to one treatment every three weeks or monthly & giving my worsening joint pain a chance to calm down.

Few persevere with such dedication through such adversity. I only hope for continued success. :)

Ah, you are the Doctor that molds the young ones, may god bless you. :)

For me, it was fascination with the human body & a professor who was an Immunologist that sparked my interest in research. He used to laugh & tell me " chose Immuno as your specialty & go into research" He was young enough that he is probably still alive & I can just imagine his excitement at the developments happening today :)

I am, for better or worse. :) Immunology is fascinating field and I thoroughly enjoy it on an academic level. I would suspect there's A LOT to be done on the research side which could lead to major revolutions in treatment.

People keep touting " direct care" as an option to me on Twitter, they get strangely quiet when asked about chemo & cancer care being paid for out of pocket.

You hit the nail on the head. I find that Family Physicians are frequently participating in "direct care primary care" models due to the demographics of their patient panels, and I can appreciate the flexibility and increased pay it offers. I would also love the ability to spend as much (or little) time with a patient as necessary. Unfortunately, though, I find that the model leaves the sick out to dry. Very good model for younger/healthier people who do not have significant health care needs, much less ideal for the socioeconomically disadvantaged or ill. The model certainly has benefits and fills a need, but I just don't personally care for the type of panel that fits that need.

My PCP's practice is owned by a hospital system. He is 65, he struggled at first with the conversion to computers & electronic records. LOL, does anybody really like EPIC? However, he pushed through it & says that enough though it is a PITA in some ways, making his notes & writing orders at bedside is actually easier for him.

I actually love EPIC, but I'm a computer nerd who has posted on AT for coming up on 17 years. ;) Unfortunately, IT in Healthcare is notoriously abysmal and physicians are poorly (on average) computer literate. That is changing as the demographics of physicians change so I expect it will get better. EPIC is a wonderful tool, but we are doing a very poor job of utilizing that tool and keeping it sharp. I see so many of my colleagues utilizing only 10-15% of what EPIC can do such that it becomes more of a hindrance than a help.

LOL that crack about your brother in law has me rolling! Just tell him that only Neurosurgeons sit at the right hand of the father.

I considered surgery as a specialty as I have small hands, long nimble fingers & had excellent fine motor skills. However my instructors told me my real skill set was in the taking of history & puzzling out a difficult DX. LOL, they also told me surgeons were " glorified mechanics" At any rate I wanted facetime with awake patients.

lol, right you are. ;) My BIL is an orthopedic surgeon and brilliant/wonderful guy, he would have been a great internist as well had he the desire. We have a good time over cracking the typical ortho "jock" and medicine "nerd" jokes. I couldn't agree with your points more. I was briefly trying to choose between Critical Care and Primary Care and chose the latter simply because I wanted to see my patients while they were awake. Thinking is a wonderful job requirement and I try to impress upon our residents that the "tool" of an internist is his or her mind, a tool that we need to work on sharpening regularly.

Being your own boss is not about money. It's about control. That's more important than money. I don't see too many doctors hurting for money even yrs after Obamacare. When I want to go to the summer cottage to use my Sea Ray boat, I want to get out the calendar and mark off my days. I don't want the hospital telling me when I can do that.

The dean of my medical school, on the day of my interview, spoke to the group at large and part of his speech was that "You'll never be poor as a doctor, so don't ever let that worry you." He was absolutely right. With that said, the days of what traditionally think of as the "doctor life" are over outside of a few subspecialties/surgical specialties. Medical school costs have risen dramatically, and reimbursement/payment has fallen significantly. My wife and I share roughly 550k in student debt just from medical school. She lived at home with her parents during school, and I lived on 30k a year, so we weren't exactly spending frivolously. It's just a reality. Now certainly we can make my loan payments (which are reduced to be commensurate to our household income), save for retirement, each own a car, and live comfortably in our small apartment with an occasional vacation, but it's not quite what it used to be. With regard to vacation days, I just put in my vacation requests like anyone else and haven't had issues taking the time. I'm not sure why you think simply being employed by a hospital means I'm not allowed to go on vacation?
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
You have to remember the GOP and the right aren't about getting their policies implemented, their number one goal and purpose is to make the left cry. It's simply a team sport to them and right now you are simply watching a team practice, nothing will get done because they don't intend on getting anything done.

Team sport implies playing in good faith. Purposeful degeneracy rather gives sport a bad name.
 

Geekbabe

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Oct 16, 1999
32,176
2,414
126
www.theshoppinqueen.com
It was certainly an unfortunate (and erroneous) statement on it's face. What he meant, he was "if you're doctor participates with an ACA compliant plan, you can keep your doctor." Essentially, the ACA didn't take away your doctor it was the plan that did. One can validly argue chicken and egg here, but it's not like Obama sat there laughing and breaking up physician-patient relationships.



Few persevere with such dedication through such adversity. I only hope for continued success. :)



I am, for better or worse. :) Immunology is fascinating field and I thoroughly enjoy it on an academic level. I would suspect there's A LOT to be done on the research side which could lead to major revolutions in treatment.



You hit the nail on the head. I find that Family Physicians are frequently participating in "direct care primary care" models due to the demographics of their patient panels, and I can appreciate the flexibility and increased pay it offers. I would also love the ability to spend as much (or little) time with a patient as necessary. Unfortunately, though, I find that the model leaves the sick out to dry. Very good model for younger/healthier people who do not have significant health care needs, much less ideal for the socioeconomically disadvantaged or ill. The model certainly has benefits and fills a need, but I just don't personally care for the type of panel that fits that need.



I actually love EPIC, but I'm a computer nerd who has posted on AT for coming up on 17 years. ;) Unfortunately, IT in Healthcare is notoriously abysmal and physicians are poorly (on average) computer literate. That is changing as the demographics of physicians change so I expect it will get better. EPIC is a wonderful tool, but we are doing a very poor job of utilizing that tool and keeping it sharp. I see so many of my colleagues utilizing only 10-15% of what EPIC can do such that it becomes more of a hindrance than a help.



lol, right you are. ;) My BIL is an orthopedic surgeon and brilliant/wonderful guy, he would have been a great internist as well had he the desire. We have a good time over cracking the typical ortho "jock" and medicine "nerd" jokes. I couldn't agree with your points more. I was briefly trying to choose between Critical Care and Primary Care and chose the latter simply because I wanted to see my patients while they were awake. Thinking is a wonderful job requirement and I try to impress upon our residents that the "tool" of an internist is his or her mind, a tool that we need to work on sharpening regularly.



The dean of my medical school, on the day of my interview, spoke to the group at large and part of his speech was that "You'll never be poor as a doctor, so don't ever let that worry you." He was absolutely right. With that said, the days of what traditionally think of as the "doctor life" are over outside of a few subspecialties/surgical specialties. Medical school costs have risen dramatically, and reimbursement/payment has fallen significantly. My wife and I share roughly 550k in student debt just from medical school. She lived at home with her parents during school, and I lived on 30k a year, so we weren't exactly spending frivolously. It's just a reality. Now certainly we can make my loan payments (which are reduced to be commensurate to our household income), save for retirement, each own a car, and live comfortably in our small apartment with an occasional vacation, but it's not quite what it used to be. With regard to vacation days, I just put in my vacation requests like anyone else and haven't had issues taking the time. I'm not sure why you think simply being employed by a hospital means I'm not allowed to go on vacation?

The ability to think & actually look at a patient closely is a huge thing as is asking the right questions. Given that I had a family I was considering becoming an Immunologist or oddly a Psychiatrist, the latter choice being downvoted by my advisors but back then Psychiatrists also did therapy, they weren't limited to 15 minute med refill visits.

In any case I follow the progress in Immunotherapy keenly, outside of my own situation it honestly excites me. The human immune system is amazing in its complexity & we have so much to learn.

Btw, I actually like EPIC, I think a lot of MD frustration comes with Institutions constantly making menu changes & the time needed to figure them out.
 
Last edited:

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,076
136
Btw, I actually like EPIC, I think a lot of MD frustration comes with Institutions constantly making menu changes & the time needed to figure them out.

Change is hard. :) We got the widescreen update 2 years ago maybe? I think our utilization is under 40% and it's a vast improvement.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
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I certainly disagree with you. Single payer may fall short of socialized medicine but it most certainly is a gov't takeover of our health system. It gives them all the power where healthcare matters.

You can disagree to your hearts content. You are wrong, I've shown you the accepted definitions and you simply cover your ears and eyes. Have a nice life.
 

Sea Ray

Golden Member
May 30, 2013
1,459
31
91
I'm not sure why you think simply being employed by a hospital means I'm not allowed to go on vacation?

I'm not sure why you took my comments to mean that you can't go on vacation. My guess is that you take far more vacation than I do. I want the control of when I take time off and who I hire and how much time I spend with patients. Do you have pressure from your employer to spend less time with patients than you'd like? If not then you're not feeling the pressure that other doctors are feeling
 

Sea Ray

Golden Member
May 30, 2013
1,459
31
91
You can disagree to your hearts content. You are wrong, I've shown you the accepted definitions and you simply cover your ears and eyes. Have a nice life.

Yeah, you've shown me your accepted definitions. I've shown you where the NY Times disagrees with you. I have a very nice life but thank you for your well wishes
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
Yeah, you've shown me your accepted definitions. I've shown you where the NY Times disagrees with you. I have a very nice life but thank you for your well wishes

All you were able to show is a story by 2 reporters who apparently didn't understand the topic that they were writing about. Continue to keep those eyes and ears blocked.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,076
136
I'm not sure why you took my comments to mean that you can't go on vacation. My guess is that you take far more vacation than I do. I want the control of when I take time off and who I hire and how much time I spend with patients. Do you have pressure from your employer to spend less time with patients than you'd like? If not then you're not feeling the pressure that other doctors are feeling

I'll make it clear. I can accrue 28 days of PTO per year. I earn roughly 8 hours (1 day) off per 2 week pay period. So I can, in theory, take roughly 28 days off a year. Of course, PTO also includes sick days, snow days, etc. Absolutely I am pressured to see patients much faster than I like. We're 20/40 here, and 20 minutes is an absurd amount of time to appropriately see a patient. All of us are feeling the crunch.
 

Sea Ray

Golden Member
May 30, 2013
1,459
31
91
All you were able to show is a story by 2 reporters who apparently didn't understand the topic that they were writing about. Continue to keep those eyes and ears blocked.

Yeah, everyone who doesn't agree with you is by definition an idiot who doesn't know what they're talking about. I get it. Sen Feinstein from that conservative haven of central CA is one of those I'm sure:

Feinstein: Single-Payer System Would Be ‘Government Takeover Of All Medicine’ In U.S.

http://californiahealthline.org/mor...e-government-takeover-of-all-medicine-in-u-s/

 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,247
48,437
136
There are a lot of differences. For example are there areas of Mass where there is no individual insurance plans offered?

Republicans never tried to sabotage Romneycare so that wasn't an issue. Again I can't help but be baffled by your total ignorance.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
The major Republican opposition to the ACA is that they didn't do it first.

Their major opposition is twofold. They're all about dependency on the whims of capitalists rather than the govt of the people. It also really chaps their hides that America's wealthiest pay surtaxes to support it.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,553
7,723
136
Yeah, everyone who doesn't agree with you is by definition an idiot who doesn't know what they're talking about. I get it. Sen Feinstein from that conservative haven of central CA is one of those I'm sure:

Feinstein: Single-Payer System Would Be ‘Government Takeover Of All Medicine’ In U.S.

http://californiahealthline.org/mor...e-government-takeover-of-all-medicine-in-u-s/
That you believe that Feinstein is anything but a centrist Democrat (which makes her a Rockefeller Republican 35 years ago) is hilarious and quaint.

The real son-of-a-bitch is that the Democratic party is the BigTent party and is partially composed of the conservatives that this country needs.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
Yeah, everyone who doesn't agree with you is by definition an idiot who doesn't know what they're talking about. I get it. Sen Feinstein from that conservative haven of central CA is one of those I'm sure:

Feinstein: Single-Payer System Would Be ‘Government Takeover Of All Medicine’ In U.S.

http://californiahealthline.org/mor...e-government-takeover-of-all-medicine-in-u-s/

My last attempt.

Please note who is providing the definition. It is *not* reporters* and it is *not* politicians.

Physicians For A National Healthcare Program:
What is Single Payer?

"Single-payer national health insurance, also known as “Medicare for all,” is a system in which a single public or quasi-public agency organizes health care financing, but the delivery of care remains largely in private hands. Under a single-payer system, all residents of the U.S. would be covered for all medically necessary services, including doctor, hospital, preventive, long-term care, mental health, reproductive health care, dental, vision, prescription drug and medical supply costs.

The program would be funded by the savings obtained from replacing today’s inefficient, profit-oriented, multiple insurance payers with a single streamlined, nonprofit, public payer, and by modest new taxes based on ability to pay. Premiums would disappear; 95 percent of all households would save money. Patients would no longer face financial barriers to care such as co-pays and deductibles, and would regain free choice of doctor and hospital. Doctors would regain autonomy over patient care.

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/what-is-single-payer

What is a single payer healthcare system?

In a single payer healthcare system, rather than multiple competing health insurance companies, a single public or quasi-public agency takes responsibility for financing healthcare for all residents. That is, everyone has health insurance under a one health insurance plan, and has access to necessary services — including doctors, hospitals, long-term care, prescription drugs, dentists and vision care. However, individuals may still choose where they receive care. It’s a lot like Medicare, hence the U.S. single payer nickname “Medicare-for-all.”

http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/single-payer-healthcare-pluses-minuses-means-201606279835

And, as I think I noted earlier, in Canada the 'single payer is not the federal govt. The individual provinces and territories run their own individual plans. The feds provide a portion of the funding, set the minimum requirements, ensure portability and have some enforcement ability (mainly financial) if provinces fail to meet these standards.

As a citizen in my province I see my private sector doctor and they prescribe appropriate treatments. No money is exchanged and no "checking with the insurance company to see if that's covered" is ever involved. I am also not limited to what doctor I wish to see by anyone other than the doctors themselves.
 

Sea Ray

Golden Member
May 30, 2013
1,459
31
91
That you believe that Feinstein is anything but a centrist Democrat (which makes her a Rockefeller Republican 35 years ago) is hilarious and quaint.

The real son-of-a-bitch is that the Democratic party is the BigTent party and is partially composed of the conservatives that this country needs.

If the single payer crowd can't get centrist Democrats on board, how are they ever going to get the country on board? The country as a whole is not ready to embrace this.
 

Sea Ray

Golden Member
May 30, 2013
1,459
31
91
My last attempt.

Please note who is providing the definition. It is *not* reporters* and it is *not* politicians.

Physicians For A National Healthcare Program:
What is Single Payer?

"Single-payer national health insurance, also known as “Medicare for all,” is a system in which a single public or quasi-public agency organizes health care financing, but the delivery of care remains largely in private hands. Under a single-payer system, all residents of the U.S. would be covered for all medically necessary services, including doctor, hospital, preventive, long-term care, mental health, reproductive health care, dental, vision, prescription drug and medical supply costs.

The program would be funded by the savings obtained from replacing today’s inefficient, profit-oriented, multiple insurance payers with a single streamlined, nonprofit, public payer, and by modest new taxes based on ability to pay. Premiums would disappear; 95 percent of all households would save money. Patients would no longer face financial barriers to care such as co-pays and deductibles, and would regain free choice of doctor and hospital. Doctors would regain autonomy over patient care.

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/what-is-single-payer

What is a single payer healthcare system?

In a single payer healthcare system, rather than multiple competing health insurance companies, a single public or quasi-public agency takes responsibility for financing healthcare for all residents. That is, everyone has health insurance under a one health insurance plan, and has access to necessary services — including doctors, hospitals, long-term care, prescription drugs, dentists and vision care. However, individuals may still choose where they receive care. It’s a lot like Medicare, hence the U.S. single payer nickname “Medicare-for-all.”

http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/single-payer-healthcare-pluses-minuses-means-201606279835

And, as I think I noted earlier, in Canada the 'single payer is not the federal govt. The individual provinces and territories run their own individual plans. The feds provide a portion of the funding, set the minimum requirements, ensure portability and have some enforcement ability (mainly financial) if provinces fail to meet these standards.

As a citizen in my province I see my private sector doctor and they prescribe appropriate treatments. No money is exchanged and no "checking with the insurance company to see if that's covered" is ever involved. I am also not limited to what doctor I wish to see by anyone other than the doctors themselves.

The individual provinces and territories are gov't. May not be the feds but it's a gov't takeover. You made my point.

In Canada, how is the healthcare financed? Where do they get the money? Income tax? Corporate tax? Withholding tax?
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,553
7,723
136
If the single payer crowd can't get centrist Democrats on board, how are they ever going to get the country on board? The country as a whole is not ready to embrace this.
A majority of the country is fine with single payer, depending on whether you describe it accurately, or shout about DEATH PANELS and SOCIALISM.

That a centrist Democrat is against doesn't portend much of anything, given the fact that Republicans are for their own AHCA that the public finds downright reprehensible in theory, and would likely hate in practice.

Or, in other words, the problem is that there is one side of the political spectrum that will debate policy, and another side that just shouts the pre-programmed panic words to their pre-programmed base in order to keep the conversation from ever veering remotely into actual policy and reality.
 

Azuma Hazuki

Golden Member
Jun 18, 2012
1,532
866
131
Stop trying to reason with SeaRay. He's so far up his own ass he has the complete unthinking gall to tell a woman suffering from stage 4 lung cancer he "feels her pain" because his insurance bills are high. And all the while he votes for the people preventing the US from having a decent healthcare system.

You know, it's possible to tell someone "fuck you and die" without saying the literal words "fuck you and die," and that is what he is doing.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Who knows what the country will be ready for after TrumpCare. Democrats should have an agenda and commit to it, eventually they will win and be able to pass it.