Parents sue school over same-sex fairy tale.

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Same-sex marriage isn't normal nor will it ever be. A male organism will never be able to fertilize another male organism no matter how many times it's tried. Being a homosexual is a conscious choice that is taken by the individual. No one is born gay/straight. Men naturally have attractions to the opposite sex as do women. Men fantasizing about other men is something that one does because one wants to, NOT because that's his natural orientation.

Marriage in itself is not normal. Evolution wise, it is bad; it limits people's mates.

Also, when making statements like that, please provide evidence to support.

Not to be rude or disrespectful, but the evidence is all around us. Marriage between two members of the opposite sex is as normal as normal can be. Since the beginning of time, men have married women in order to reproduce after their own kind. How can people say that gay marriage is normal when since the beginning, marriage has been the act of joining one man and one women in holy matrimony? How often/if at all have you heard of two males successfully fertilizing one another? That's exactly zero times.

I can not answer your other statement as I do not understand what you mean. Please expound.

And please do not take this as a personal flame of sorts. I have nothing against you or anyone else at all.

Your logic fault is in associating marriage with reproduction. I will never reproduce with another person, no matter if I marry a female or male. Since I cannot reproduce by any means, does that mean I cannot marry, since reproduction is your basis?

 

[RapidSnail]

In that post I was only replying to your statement that "Marriage in itself is not normal."

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: aidanjm

The state is more or less a stand-in for "the people" or the society you live in. Kids do need to be taught about the values of the society at large (the society outside of your household). Within your household, you may find it acceptable to treat gay people with contempt. However that is probably not going to fly outside in the "real world" (i.e., at work, at school, at university) and kids need to be taught this, for their own good, and also for the good of the people they will be living and working with.

You would be the first to complain if a child demonstrates poor socialisation by screaming and shouting in a public place such as a library or shoppiung center. Parents and schools have an obligation to the larger society to teach their children how to function and work and live harmoniously with other people. This includes teaching them basic social behaviors live saying please and thankyou, teaching them about appropriate behavior in public spaces, teaching them to be honest, work hard, etc. It also involves teaching them that our society is made up of different types of people.

Our government was not set up to take away parental rights and tell parents how to raise their children.

What does that setence even mean, in the context of this discussion?

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
and there is a big difference between telling children they need to learn manners and taking away a parents right to tell their children what is and is not acceptable.

No-one has taken away your right to tell your children anything. You are still free to indoctrinate your child with a hatred or contempt for gay people. However your child may well receive competing messages that same-sex relationships are acceptable from school, the media, and their own experiences.

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Screaming and shouting in public does not equate to all parents having to take a back seat to what they should believe as far as religion, sexuality and marriage. the analogies just dont gibe. it is mixing apples and pears.

What we are talking about here is expected social behaviors and values. Your children are living in a pluralistic society where gay marriages and relationships are just another variety of family. Where gay individuals are just another variety of citizen. Your child is also living in a society where values of fairness and social equality are prized. The school would be neglecting its duties not to convey this to your child.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: Number1
Scociety has decided that same sex couple are OK. Its not your decision. Just like black people are ok.

So whatever society says goes then?

 

[RapidSnail]

I still believe that homosexuality is morally wrong and unnormal outside of reproduction. Having an attraction to a same-sex individual is not necessarily wrong. For example, I love all my male friends deeply, but this does not mean that I desire sexual intercourse with them.

Homosexuality as a sexual attraction and lust is what I have problems with. It is a twisted thinking that goes against our very nature. Women were created for men by God. To go against the natural desires and attractions that are inside us is to go against God's plan for mankind. Lusting after other men is something that requires a choice. It has never been nor will it be natural for a man to yearn after another man. Why do you think women are here to begin with? Why do you think the natural tendency not only with humans but in the animal and plant kingdoms is to mate with a member of the opposite sex? Why do you think the vast majority of society shuns homosexuality? It is because it is universally recognized that men are supposed to join with women, not the other way around. Any other ideology is an unnatural/learned thought process. Homosexual "love" is not true love; it is lust.

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: aidanjm

The state is more or less a stand-in for "the people" or the society you live in. Kids do need to be taught about the values of the society at large (the society outside of your household). Within your household, you may find it acceptable to treat gay people with contempt. However that is probably not going to fly outside in the "real world" (i.e., at work, at school, at university) and kids need to be taught this, for their own good, and also for the good of the people they will be living and working with.

You would be the first to complain if a child demonstrates poor socialisation by screaming and shouting in a public place such as a library or shoppiung center. Parents and schools have an obligation to the larger society to teach their children how to function and work and live harmoniously with other people. This includes teaching them basic social behaviors live saying please and thankyou, teaching them about appropriate behavior in public spaces, teaching them to be honest, work hard, etc. It also involves teaching them that our society is made up of different types of people.

Our government was not set up to take away parental rights and tell parents how to raise their children.

What does that setence even mean, in the context of this discussion?

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
and there is a big difference between telling children they need to learn manners and taking away a parents right to tell their children what is and is not acceptable.

No-one has taken away your right to tell your children anything. You are still free to indoctrinate your child with a hatred or contempt for gay people. However your child may well receive competing messages that same-sex relationships are acceptable from school, the media, and their own experiences.

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Screaming and shouting in public does not equate to all parents having to take a back seat to what they should believe as far as religion, sexuality and marriage. the analogies just dont gibe. it is mixing apples and pears.

What we are talking about here is expected social behaviors and values. Your children are living in a pluralistic society where gay marriages and relationships are just another variety of family. Where gay individuals are just another variety of citizen. Your child is also living in a society where values of fairness and social equality are prized. The school would be neglecting its duties not to convey this to your child.

I am not surprised how you are trying to twist this around. hahaha... it is so predictable.

it went from parents having the right to know if things are gonna be taught to their children that directly goes against their beliefs, to how ppl are still allowed to teach their children hated.

firstly, do me a favor... stop pointing this personally at me.. how I can still do this and that in derogatory manner. I have not mentioned me personally and how i raise my children or anything about me personally. so cut it out.

schools are meant to teach. the problems in schools started when they got all kumbya and decided that making kids feel good about themselves was more important than teaching them reading skills. many ppl still believe that schools should not be the source of teaching children what is and what is not acceptable in marriages and relationships... forced on them thru court orders not withstanding.

it is a parents role to teach children respect, honor and a value system. teachers should not ursurp parental authority, especially not in matters of morals. in your life, gay marriages are just another variety of society... not everyone feels the same.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

KarenMarie, I'm posting this in reply to you, but not necessarily implicating you, just addressing the general point you are making: that the school shouldn't be teaching morality.

In a certain sense I agree with you. That really should be up to the parents and the schools shouldn't be teaching morality. The problem is really whether or not parents actually do? Many parents like to get up in arms when something like gay sex/relationships are part of a curiculum in school, but then blame the school when the kid is 15 and doesn't know many very important things about sex because the school didn't teach them. Meanwhile the school is living in the Bible Belt and isn't allowed to do that, but the parents are too lazy/don't want to, and give the schools a hard time. There are many other cases of teachers/schools teaching morality and sexual issues in schools besides this (gay relationships), but this really draws your ire. Why is that? I think I know why, but if I said so it would just insult you.

It would be nice if the schools could focus on academics and leave the teaching of morality to the parents. But in order for that to work the parents have to actually teach their kids. In the absence of that you are left with a society of rotten children, unless the schools step up to the plate and provide what the parents aren't.

 

[Nebor]

A parent can't say that their kid's can't learn about reality any more than they can say they can't learn math, or history or science. You think there aren't nuts out there opposed to the very principles of science? Because there are.

The fact that some parents want to deny their child exposure to the real world is not a legal liability for the school, but instead a statement pointing out the bad parents to the world.

If same-sex relationships are as wrong as these right wing wackos would have everyone believe, then they shouldn't have to tell their children how wrong it is, or sheild them from it's existence; if it's that wrong, their kids will figure it out for themselves. But of course, we all know that's not how things are actually going. Society is growing more and more tolerant, and a few nuts want to hold their kids back.

 

[Cuda1447]

I suppose I'll chime in since Ive got a lot of thoughts.


First of all I'd like to say the morality is relative. I don't believe there to be any universally valid moral principles. However, that is another debate. I think its safe to say that regarding homosexuality it certainly isn't a universal moral, and is relative to each individual and their belief system.


Now this specific case is gay propoganda, to call it anything else is just ignorant. It is obvious their is an agenda at work here. Like someone else mentioned, there are 100's of fairly tales that could be read, so why pick a fairly tale that is centralized around being a homosexual? Propoganda.


Thats one thing that schools should not be doing, regardless of the subject. Their is seperation of church and state. The government should not be 'advertising' if you will, things as controversial and relative as something like this. There is a reason religion is not taught in public schools. Each person has their own viewpoints on religion. The death penalty also is hardly ever discussed because it is something that is of very sensitive nature and whether it be right or wrong depends on who you talk to. Now these sorts of subjects can be covered at the university or possibly highschool level (Im more inclined to say university because than the classes are not mandated). However at such a young age kids are very impressionable and should not be exposed to such blatant propoganda. You would not want your child to be told what to think about the death penalty, what religion to choose, what political party is correct or other things of that nature, so this should be be touched on either.


Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that homosexuals are bad or wrong or anything like that. All Im saying is that is a subject that is relative dependent upon who you are speaking to. Thats something that will not change. Just like an opinion on religion/political party/death penalty/abortion is all relative dependent upon belief system/morals.


There is no reason to allow the state to choose what is 'right' and what is 'wrong'. Subjects of this matter should be left up to the parents until the child is of an age at which they can make an informed decision. Until then, leave the propoganda to the guardians of the parent and keep the state out of it.


Unless of course you think this is China and you like living in a dictatorship where you let the state dictate what is 'right' and what is 'wrong'.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

It would be easier to care about this if every other drama queen parent in this country didn't sue schools over everything ranging from the Pledge of Allegiance to private prayer in school (who gives a sh*t) to homosexual and multicultural "issues" to what books are read in class.

If you have the money to sue your kid's public school over every ridiculous non-issue, then you have the money to send your kid to a private school. So either find one that agrees with your whiny, self-important beliefs, or shut the fvck up and let the horny female teachers decide what book your kid has to read.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Cooler
Same-sex fairy tale is tame to some of stuff i read in Oedipus, The inferno, and hamlet.

I was never told these epics at 7 either........

 

[mugs]

Would they have complained about them teaching "sex-ed" if it was a heterosexual couple in the fairy tale?

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

I am not surprised how you are trying to twist this around. hahaha... it is so predictable.

it went from parents having the right to know if things are gonna be taught to their children that directly goes against their beliefs, to how ppl are still allowed to teach their children hated.

firstly, do me a favor... stop pointing this personally at me.. how I can still do this and that in derogatory manner. I have not mentioned me personally and how i raise my children or anything about me personally. so cut it out.

schools are meant to teach. the problems in schools started when they got all kumbya and decided that making kids feel good about themselves was more important than teaching them reading skills. many ppl still believe that schools should not be the source of teaching children what is and what is not acceptable in marriages and relationships... forced on them thru court orders not withstanding.

it is a parents role to teach children respect, honor and a value system. teachers should not ursurp parental authority, especially not in matters of morals. in your life, gay marriages are just another variety of society... not everyone feels the same.

I disagree completely.

School is much more than learning basic skills like how to read and how to add. It *is* about learning social interactions. The classic books we read in high school are read not only because they are high level reading but also because they are good books. And they are good books because they reflect the life we live in, and say something about the life we live in. They demonstrate certain values that the reader can empathize with or examine.

Morals are in the eye of the beholder. A parent can be a Neo-Nazi, teaching his kid that the Holocaust was the right thing to do. Does that mean schools should not be able to teach about the horrors of the Holocaust? Should they have to get permission from the parent for that?

In Massachusetts, gay marriages are acceptable, and not recognized as morally incorrect in any law. Parents are free to promote gay hatred like the Neo-Nazi, but the school should continue to teach a reflection of what real life is.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Same-sex marriage isn't normal nor will it ever be. A male organism will never be able to fertilize another male organism no matter how many times it's tried. Being a homosexual is a conscious choice that is taken by the individual. No one is born gay/straight. Men naturally have attractions to the opposite sex as do women. Men fantasizing about other men is something that one does because one wants to, NOT because that's his natural orientation.

Marriage in itself is not normal. Evolution wise, it is bad; it limits people's mates.

Also, when making statements like that, please provide evidence to support.

In case you hadn't noticed, human beings are capable of rational thought and CHOSE to create the institution of marriage. Jealousy is a natural human reaction in non-monogamous relationships. There is nothing unnatural about monogamy, even if animals don't practice it.

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

I am not surprised how you are trying to twist this around. hahaha... it is so predictable.

it went from parents having the right to know if things are gonna be taught to their children that directly goes against their beliefs, to how ppl are still allowed to teach their children hated.

firstly, do me a favor... stop pointing this personally at me.. how I can still do this and that in derogatory manner. I have not mentioned me personally and how i raise my children or anything about me personally. so cut it out.

schools are meant to teach. the problems in schools started when they got all kumbya and decided that making kids feel good about themselves was more important than teaching them reading skills. many ppl still believe that schools should not be the source of teaching children what is and what is not acceptable in marriages and relationships... forced on them thru court orders not withstanding.

it is a parents role to teach children respect, honor and a value system. teachers should not ursurp parental authority, especially not in matters of morals. in your life, gay marriages are just another variety of society... not everyone feels the same.

I disagree completely.

School is much more than learning basic skills like how to read and how to add. It *is* about learning social interactions. The classic books we read in high school are read not only because they are high level reading but also because they are good books. And they are good books because they reflect the life we live in, and say something about the life we live in. They demonstrate certain values that the reader can empathize with or examine.

Morals are in the eye of the beholder. A parent can be a Neo-Nazi, teaching his kid that the Holocaust was the right thing to do. Does that mean schools should not be able to teach about the horrors of the Holocaust? Should they have to get permission from the parent for that?

In Massachusetts, gay marriages are acceptable, and not recognized as morally incorrect in any law. Parents are free to promote gay hatred like the Neo-Nazi, but the school should continue to teach a reflection of what real life is.

Please respond to my post. And do not use such off-examples as comparing the holocaust to homosexuality. Because they are clearly not the same thing. I think most people would agree that mass murder is wrong, and that is the difference. Whereas, the moral line on an issue such as this is not nearly as onesided, therefore the parents should have the option of which side of the line they choose to be on, and the state should not push for one or the other.

 

[Koing]

WHAT ABOUT THE VIDEO GAMES? :Q

Koing

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Now this specific case is gay propoganda, to call it anything else is just ignorant. It is obvious their is an agenda at work here. Like someone else mentioned, there are 100's of fairly tales that could be read, so why pick a fairly tale that is centralized around being a homosexual? Propoganda.

So what if they chose a story book that portrayed a (white) seagull and a (black) blackbird who become friends, despite the disapproving attitudes of all the other seagulls..? (there is a storybook that portrays exactly this, forgotten what it is called) I.e., a book that promotes the ideals of tolerance between the races... Would such a book be propaganda? If it is "propaganda" does that necessarily make it inappropriate?

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: aidanjm
So what if they chose a story book that portrayed a (white) seagull and a (black) blackbird who become friends, despite the disapproving attitudes of all the other seagulls..? (there is a storybook that portrays exactly this, forgotten what it is called) (I.e., a book that promotes the ideals of tolerance between the races) Would that be propaganda? If it is "propaganda" does that necessarily make it inappropriate?

The reasons people disapprove of homosexuality are very different from the reasons people disapprove of people of other races. You know that.

I'm not arguing in Cuda's defence, I'm just saying, come on, you're playing dumb aidanjm.

 

[deejayshakur]

lol

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Golgatha
Cliffs:
1) Teacher reads gay fairy tail to 7year olds without informing parents.
2) Parents say teacher broke law by not informing them about sex ed.
3) Lawsuit coming soon.

Your spelling sucks. Here's an example to clarify. "After reading a gay fairy tale to his class that morning, the homosexual teacher went to a bar and got some gay fairy tail that night."

aidanjm is really holding back in this thread...I'm surprised.

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Now this specific case is gay propoganda, to call it anything else is just ignorant. It is obvious their is an agenda at work here. Like someone else mentioned, there are 100's of fairly tales that could be read, so why pick a fairly tale that is centralized around being a homosexual? Propoganda.

So what if they chose a story book that portrayed a (white) seagull and a (black) blackbird who become friends, despite the disapproving attitudes of all the other seagulls..? (there is a storybook that portrays exactly this, forgotten what it is called) I.e., a book that promotes the ideals of tolerance between the races... Would such a book be propaganda? If it is "propaganda" does that necessarily make it inappropriate?

There is a very fundamental difference between the two. Not to mention, the majority of society accepts the difference between races. However, as has already been stated, the majority of the society does not neccessarily support the gay rights movement, and this is something that the majority of people may never accept. Until they do, it is something that should be left up to the parents to teach their children about.



The bottom line here aidanjm, is that you are defending this because it is about homosexuality. However, if it were a different case I wonder if you would be so quick to say the state can teach the children whatever they want.


Currently in texas the death penalty is legal. Would you like the state to insert propoganda into schools advocating the death penalty simply because it is currently legal? I would hope any responsible citizen would say no. Regardless of their stance on the subject.

 

[GTaudiophile]

This sh!t just doesn't belong in schools for fvck's sake! Teach them what they really NEED to know, like how to read and write, add and subtract...instead of undermining parents!

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
This sh!t just doesn't belong in schools for fvck's sake! Teach them what they really NEED to know, like how to read and write, add and subtract...instead of undermining parents!

Since a lot of parents see school as more of a cheap day care service, I don't see where the undermining comes in.

 

[Mallow]

I'm sure at least 10 ppl turned gay b/c of it!!! riiiight.