You raise some interesting points, but you need more definitional clarity.
Well that's certainly reasonable - it was a wandering commentary about a vague topic.
It isn't clear what you mean by "religious state." I notice you wisely avoid Lemon Law's fallacious use of the word "theocracy," since no aspect of the recognized definition of that word resembles anything about the modern state of Israel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy
Israel is not ruled by clergy or governed by religious law and its state is not widely believed to be divinely anointed or guided.
That out of the way, I think there is some confusion about what the expression "Jewish state" means. It doesn't mean a whole lot legally, other than Israel's immigration policy which grants citizenship upon request to most Jews but others must go through naturalization. So when you are referring to it as a "religious state," be careful because not every state you think of as a "religious state" necessarily shares much in common.
Yes, the low end of religious state means that there is legally, an 'official religion' to the state. I cited examples of this which are not viewed as it causing issues.
I think the desires of Jews in Israel fall somewhere between that low end, and the 'high end', such as the theocracy you mention.
But whatever the specific advantages provided for the Jewish religion, the issue was just the conflict between having those treated specially, versus democracy.
There was a wide variety of possible policies in South Africa, for example, under white minority rule; they could have had slavery and didn't, they could have had oppressive laws that they didn't, they could have the 'Apartheid' system and they did, but whether they were on the lower or higher end of policies, having any special protection to keep whites in power, to provide them 'special rights', was at odds with democracy that would have given full voting rights to blacks as well.
I'm not that familiar with the actual demographics coming in Israel - but am pointing out some issues that would arise if they'd lead to a Jewish minority.
You dismiss the whole idea of a Jewish minority - but it's not clear why other than that they don't want one, which isn't enough by itself to prevent one. I'm unaware of any mandatory birth control for Muslims that might help prevent changes to the demographics. You mention Jews 'just leaving' if faced with minority status, but it seems to me they wouldn't be so quick to do so, if they could explore the 'official Jewish State' Netanyahu is demanding recognition for, if it would protect them.
When you ask for definition of the 'religious state', while that could mean a variety of things over time, I'm referring to the recognition of Jewish as an official Jewish state that Netanyahu is saying Palestinians must agree to currently, as the immediate definition.
You're right about the arab population of Israel being largely happy to be citizens of Israel and preferring that to changing to a Palestinian state; but it's not them that would be wanting to or having the power to bring about changes to somehow keep Israel with a majority of Jews, through whatever means, including such things as simply ending/reducing new citizenships for non-Jews.
I'm not talking so much about moving them physically, as some policy affecting citizenship or rights that would protect the Jewish power.
As I indicated in my post, for example, the US is happy to be 'proud that many Americans are Muslims with full equal rights', but if they were headed to a majority...
You query about would it be viable for Israel to be a "Jewish state" if the Jews are suddenly in the minority I think that misses the point. The project of Zionism is to create a state where Jews are in the majority, because everywhere they have been a minority they have been persecuted and/or slaughtered for 2000 years. Your scenario of Jews being in the minority is problematic for that basic reason: they Jews simply won't be in the minority, because faced with that possibility, they will leave rather than be slaughtered by the Palestinians who despise them. So the question of whether they could continue to identify it as a "Jewish state" under those circumstances is pretty much moot. Doubtless they could not maintain that identity and probably shouldn't be able to, but again, it's moot.
As to your last point of moving off some of Israel's Arab population into a new Palestinian state, that idea has been proposed by some Israeli politicians. It is generally considered a position of the Israeli right and is maligned as separatism by the Israeli and western left. Furthermore, the Arab population of Israel has no interest in living in a Palestinian state. All polling shows they are quite happy to be where they are, and hence moving them would be extremely problematic.
- wolf
You call the issue 'moot', but I think that' literally not correct.
I did a quick google and quickly found a sample of a discussion of the issues, from a right-wing Jewish perspective (which you mentioned), similar to the issues I raised.
Many people outside of Israel are not aware that over 20% of the Israeli population is Arab. They have full rights under Israeli law, including the right to vote and be elected to the Israeli parliament. The problem is that the Arab population grows much more rapidly than the Jewish population, and according to demographic experts, in a few decades the majority of Israeli citizens will be Arab. They will then be able to vote in the Israeli elections, win a majority of seats in the Knesset, and transform Israel into another Arab State.
Israeli Arabs have assisted in several terrorist attacks against Israel, and have even carried out some of them. Arab members of Knesset fully cooperate with Israel's enemies, and although this is openly reported in the Israeli media, nothing is done about it!
...In reality, Israeli Arabs feel very discriminated. For example, the Israeli National Anthem speaks of "a Jewish spirit..." and a "hope of 2000 years..." but for the Arab spirit this Jewish state is not a hope but a tragedy, not a dream but a nightmare. No wonder no Israeli Arab ever sings the Israeli National Anthem. Another point bothering the Israeli Arabs is the "Law of Return", which enables every Jew to return home and become an Israeli citizen. Israeli Arabs complain this is a racist law because it only applies to Jews. Have you ever heard of an Arab making a contribution to the Jewish National Fund or to the Jewish Agency?
Israeli leftists have already come up with one of their bright solutions: "Lets cancel the Law of Return, and change the Israeli National Anthem!" From this we learn that the Arabs don't need to become a majority in Israel. There are plenty of Israeli Jews that will happily assist them in their plan to destroy Israel. As their actions reflect, leftists actually don't want Israel to be a Jewish State. It's a shameful reality that many Jews want to assist Israel's enemies, just like the Jewish kappos assisted the Nazis. They still believe they will profit from their betrayal to the Jewish Nation.
So what can be done? The answer to this question is very hard, but there is an answer. Most Jews in Israel and abroad would prefer that there would be no Arabs in Israel. Israel would become a much nicer and safer place to live in. But the actions that must be taken to achieve this are not very nice, so most people prefer to just ignore the problem hoping it will just disappear. A few have been brave enough to propose solutions. Some have said that Arabs should not be Israeli citizens, but Israeli residents. This would give them full rights under the law, except for the right to vote and to be elected to the Knesset.
Others have come up with another peace proposal. In 1971, Rabbi Meir Kahane proposed the transfer of the Israeli Arab population, including the Arabs living in the territories liberated in 1967, to one of the 23 Arab states in existence. It must be said that Rabbi Kahane was not the first nor the last person to come up with this peace proposal. Polls taken in Israel show that at least since the 1980's, a large majority of Israeli Jews support this proposal. The only question is how to implement it.
The transfer of Arabs to Arab lands should be done, not because of hatred for the Arabs, but because of love to the Jewish People. This peace plan will work, and will save the lives of thousands of innocent Jews, and Arabs. Let the Arabs run their own governments and rule over their own people in their own land. As part of this plan, Judea, Samaria and Gaza must be annexed and become an integral part of the State of Israel.
Just before being banned from Israeli politics in 1988, Rabbi Kahane said: "Today you must decide, it's either Kahane or Arafat!" The Israeli establishment chosed Arafat. Now we must turn Israel into a true democracy and decide between life and death. Do you want Israel to be a Jewish State? Or would you prefer Israel to be destroyed and become another Arab State? And make no mistake, the plans the Arabs have for the Jews are similar to the plans the Nazis had for the Jews just a few decades ago.
It is interesting how similar some of the fallacies of the right are here and there, such as the right frequently misrepresenting the views and motives of the left here, while the writer above claims that the reason the 'Israeli left' might want to do something like make the Israeli national anthem not have things that are only for one part of the population is that they're trying to 'sell out to the arabs in hope for rewards when the arabs destroy Israel'. They're nutty just like some of our right.
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