Palestinians say Netanyahu speech obstacle to peace

[EagleKeeper]

I'm still waiting for the US to return to her original chartered colonies. As we all know, the UN and the world won't recognize any territorial conquest.

That now apparently only applies after the creation of the UN and does not apply to the Palestinians/Arabs or China

 

[Lemon law]

I'm still waiting for the US to return to her original chartered colonies. As we all know, the UN and the world won't recognize any territorial conquest.

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Where have you been for the past 65 years Lupi? Prior to the end of WW2, land by conquest was accepted as semi-legal, but with the formation of the UN, all members States recognize land by conquest as illegitimate. Land Israel refuses to give back after 44 years of military occupation.

Now its just a question of how much longer the larger world will tolerate the Israeli charade?

 

[Lemon law]

That now apparently only applies after the creation of the UN and does not apply to the Palestinians/Arabs or China

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Of course it applies to Arabs and Palestinians, what land by conquest were those two entities granted post 1945?

As for China, two points to make? (1) When the commies took over by a revolution, it was simply regime change by a Chinese civil war and not land by conquest. (2) China did not become a UN member until the time of Nixon. But still China had to somewhat cede it rights to Taiwan as a break away Provence? China may want Taiwan back, but so far seems to content to prefer a joint Taiwanese Chinese reconciliation. Likewise places the Gobi desert were also parts of China although the new China is now reasserting its rights to govern.

 

[EagleKeeper]

China - Tibet

The Arabs & Palestinians wanted what was granted to Israel and attempted to take it.
Little ol' Israel was able to stop such actions - but no one did anything to those that tried and failed.

Hamas still does wants to take over the land - no one is doing anything about that.

Syria had control of Lebanon for how many years.

The Soviets had control of how many countries for how many years after the UN was formed. How many more did they send the military into to control after WWII

So my statement stands

The UN does not care about land taken by conquest if it is done by the Palestinians/Arabs or Communists
I am not saying that they bless such - I am saying that they will not do anything about it; no fuss; just look the other way.

 

[Lemon law]

What a stupid contention for CC to ask, as he asks, "Syria had control of Lebanon for how many years."

Talk about a contention with so little wit, when the Israeli occupation of Lebanon lasted far longer than the corresponding later Syrian peace keeping occupation.

So let us now review the results of both the Israeli and Syrian occupations of Lebanon.

The point is and remains, the initial Israeli occupation of Lebanon was so brutal and Israeli short sighted, not only did Israeli alienate all Lebanese people, it led to the creation of the dual wings of Hezbollah as a social and military organization when such an Hezbollah entity never existed before?

When Israel finally gave up in 2000 the Syrians became the next lucky nation to assume the Lebanese peace keeping burden. For what it is worth, the Syrian occupation was far better than the previous Israeli one.

Then suddenly Harri got assassinated, and with no evidence everyone just assumed that Syria done it. Making the Syrian occupation of Lebanon no longer tenable. But by then, thanks to maybe a better Syrian occupation, Lebanon itself was ready fore self government again.

But when the Israelis pushed the idea of prosecuting Hezbollah for playing a role in the Harri assassinations, the Lebanese people instead sided with Hezbollah and Syria instead. As the previous brutal Israeli Lebanese occupation was more remembered.

As Israeli has to somewhat say, curses foiled again. As Hezbollah is not as Israeli wanted, discredited in Lebanon, and instead is regarded as vital to the interests of Lebanon.

Tell is again CC, what was your point in this post? As the Israeli rape of Lebanon continues to buy Israel nothing but hatreds.

 

[Zebo]

Just look at Cyprus who the Turks took over in you wanna see post 45 acquisitions. Not a peep.

While fools like LL prattle on about the Israeli lobby that's nothing compared to the oil lobby, that real money and livelihood you're talking about there, so this israel/pal thing is an ongoing issue and it should not be. By all rights of the rules of warfare and postwar settlement, israel should keep what they got and the saini they had, the same rules that entitled Italy to keep the Algo Adige even though population is 95% ethnic German, or the French to incorporate the Alsace-Lorraine from aggressive Germans.

These rules suddenly cease to apply when it comes to Israel's victories because of OIL LOBBY and of course age old anti Semitism.

 

[Karl Agathon]

Well what if Castle Greyskull were to be placed geographicially in between Israel and a future Palestinain state. Would that help any?

 

[Doboji]

Hey I'm happy to see Nabil Abu Rudineh still has a job... He worked for Arafat for so long. I actually knew his son in college. Really nice guy.

This is all bullshit posturing anyway. The only speeches that matter are the ones we don't hear behind closed doors.

 

[kylebisme]

China - Tibet

That was annexation through treaty:

Despite the Chinese military presence, the Dalai Lama had ample time and opportunity to repudiate and denounce the draft agreement that would affirm Chinese sovereignty over Tibet; indeed, he was instigated to do so with promises of support by the United States. However, he did not, and several months after the start of the negotiations, the Tibetan representatives signed a seventeen-point agreement of May 1951 in Beijing with the PRC's Central People's Government, which affirmed China's sovereignty over Tibet. The agreement was ratified in Lhasa a few months later. Point 15 of the agreement stated that the PRC government would set up a military and administrative committee and a military area headquarters in Tibet that would employ local personnel. PLA troops set up this base in Lhasa in late 1951.

That's basically the same as how Israel legally annexed the land between the their side of the UN Partition Plan and the 1967 borders, through the Oslo Accords. That's also why neither Jordan nor Egypt ever had any legal claim to Palestine, they never produced any treaty with Palestinians to felicitate any such annexation.

Just look at Cyprus who the Turks took over in you wanna see post 45 acquisitions.

Please, look at Cyprus:

The international community, with the exception of Turkey, does not recognise Northern Cyprus as a sovereign state, but recognises the de jure sovereignty of the Republic of Cyprus over the whole island. The United Nations considers the declaration of independence by Northern Cyprus as legally invalid in several of its resolutions.

Much the same is true of Israel's occupation an colonization beyond the 1967 borders; it's legally invalid as acknowledged in many UN resolutions, and by the vast majority of the world.

the same rules that entitled Italy to keep the Algo Adige even though population is 95% ethnic German, or the French to incorporate the Alsace-Lorraine from aggressive Germans.

Those are examples of annexation by treaty, like China with Tibet, and like the their side of the UN Partition Plan and the 1967 borders.

These rules suddenly cease to apply when it comes to Israel's victories because of OIL LOBBY and of course age old anti Semitism.

The oil lobby has no qualms with Israel, as they are both happy to prop up the same Arab dictatorships, and most people who are bigoted against Jews have no love for Arabs either. You're just coming up with nonsense to the contrary in a vain attempt to rationalize your flagrant misunderstanding of the rules of international law.

 

[JEDIYoda]

You're just coming up with nonsense to the contrary in a vain attempt to rationalize your flagrant misunderstanding of the rules of international law.

International law is rarely observed.....the term International law is a joke and you know it...sort of like the UN is a joke...

 

[Lemon law]

International law is rarely observed.....the term International law is a joke and you know it...sort of like the UN is a joke...

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That must be excellent news for all the Palestinians and Arabs. Since the State of Israel was legitimized by the UN, and now JediY tells us that the UN had no initial ability to create Israel in the first place, it must mean the country of Israel does not exist.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Kind of like how the UN stepped in to protect Israel all the times from the Arab countries.

And stopped the Palestinians from continuing to attack Israel.

The UN only is effective when it protects the Arabs from their mistakes. It is not intended to protect Israel.

 

[JEDIYoda]

That must be excellent news for all the Palestinians and Arabs. Since the State of Israel was legitimized by the UN, and now JediY tells us that the UN had no initial ability to create Israel in the first place, it must mean the country of Israel does not exist.

That was then this is now....back then there was high hopes the the new kid on the street namely the UN....
That was then...fast forward to today --- joke,joke,joke.......the UN has no teeth at all.....sort of like your counterparts rantings about International Law...lolol

 

[Abwx]

International law is rarely observed.....the term International law is a joke and you know it...sort of like the UN is a joke...

You are right, sir...
The UNO resolution that created israel is a pure joke
and as such, it should be definitly declared null and void...

 

[GuitarDaddy]

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Since the State of Israel was legitimized by the UN, and now JediY tells us that the UN had no initial ability to create Israel in the first place, it must mean the country of Israel does not exist.

You have finally honestly and correctly stated the true Arab/Palestinian position that has not changed since 1948. They never recognized the UN's right to create the state of Israel and thus have never accepted the state of Israels right to exist. Until that changes there will be no peace and no soverign Palestinian state. PERIOD! End of story.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

You are right, sir...
The UNO resolution that created israel is a pure joke
and as such, it should be definitly declared null and void...

I understand you guys still cling to the belief that you can right a wrong that was committed against you 63 years ago, but surely you can see that this position has gotten you nowhere for 60+ years and will get you nothing but pain and heartache in the future.

Do you really expect the UN countries to suddenly say "Opps we made a mistake 63yrs ago, we will now banish the Jews and give you back that which you believe is yours"

Or do you believe your Arab brothers who have forsaken you since 1967 and want no part of the Palestinians will suddenly rise up and try to wipe Isreal from the map again and bring the wrath of the western world who have lined their pockets for decades down upon them?

Until you guys realize that you are your own worst enemy not the evil Zionist, nothing will change for the better.

 

[Lemon law]

You have finally honestly and correctly stated the true Arab/Palestinian position that has not changed since 1948. They never recognized the UN's right to create the state of Israel and thus have never accepted the state of Israels right to exist. Until that changes there will be no peace and no soverign Palestinian state. PERIOD! End of story.

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What a bogus thing to say, if the Pals are illegitimate so are the Israelis. Either bring back the British Mandate, or return Israel to its former owners, namely to Ottoman Turk empire. Or well hell how far back can we go? Maybe return Israel to the Roman's in the land of their successors, namely the Italian people. Or better yet from the Israeli fan clubbers standpoint, it should go to the Jews. But wait, maybe its true owner is the Babylonians, who conquered Israel a long t5ime ago, or maybe we can go even further back, return it to the peoples, whom ever they were, who occupied Israel before there was a single Jew in the region.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

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What a bogus thing to say, if the Pals are illegitimate so are the Israelis. Either bring back the British Mandate, or return Israel to its former owners, namely to Ottoman Turk empire. Or well hell how far back can we go? Maybe return Israel to the Roman's in the land of their successors, namely the Italian people. Or better yet from the Israeli fan clubbers standpoint, it should go to the Jews. But wait, maybe its true owner is the Babylonians, who conquered Israel a long t5ime ago, or maybe we can go even further back, return it to the peoples, whom ever they were, who occupied Israel before there was a single Jew in the region.

I never said the Pals were illegitimate, and I see you beat all around the bush but did not deny that the Arabs\Pals refuse to accept the creation of Isreal. Come on prove me wrong! Show me one instance where Arabs\Pals have accepted the Jewish state with any borders and accepted their right to exist in peace!

 

[Lemon law]

I never said the Pals were illegitimate, and I see you beat all around the bush but did not deny that the Arabs\Pals refuse to accept the creation of Isreal. Come on prove me wrong! Show me one instance where Arabs\Pals have accepted the Jewish state with any borders and accepted their right to exist in peace!

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Don't be a fool, Guitar Daddy, even Fatah and Arifat recognized the Israeli right to exist in the Oslo process, as did a Arab league proposal in 2001, and at the later Annapolis conference.

Its always been and remains, a matter than not only does the Israelis demand everything while conceding nothing to the Palestinians, it becomes a 44 year process of Israelis settling on disputed lands they can never own and refuse to give back.

The Israeli danger is that when the world sees through their bullshit, a final settlement will go back to the days of pre-May 1948, when at that time, the Palestinian people owned some 60% of Israeli lands. Subsequently violently stolen and taken away from the Pals at the point of Israeli terrorists guns. The issue still exists and never will go away as its called the right to return.

Well we can only see what the future will be, the Israel risk in refusing to compromise, is that will end up with far less instead.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Compromise! Palestinians do not even understand that word.

Where were they for a 8 month period after Israel froze new settlements as Abbas requested.

Where have they been since then?

They want everything that they threw away.
They do not want to held accountable for their actions.

You bring up Oslo - what did Arafat do afterwards - encourage attacks on Israel
Camp David - same thing?

 

[JEDIYoda]

What a bogus thing to say, if the Pals are illegitimate so are the Israelis. Either bring back the British Mandate, or return Israel to its former owners, namely to Ottoman Turk empire. Or well hell how far back can we go? Maybe return Israel to the Roman's in the land of their successors, namely the Italian people. Or better yet from the Israeli fan clubbers standpoint, it should go to the Jews. But wait, maybe its true owner is the Babylonians, who conquered Israel a long t5ime ago, or maybe we can go even further back, return it to the peoples, whom ever they were, who occupied Israel before there was a single Jew in the region.

Common Lemon Law you know deep down that when GuitarDaddy says -- I understand you guys still cling to the belief that you can right a wrong that was committed against you 63 years ago, but surely you can see that this position has gotten you nowhere for 60+ years and will get you nothing but pain and heartache in the future.

Do you really expect the UN countries to suddenly say "Opps we made a mistake 63yrs ago, we will now banish the Jews and give you back that which you believe is yours"

Or do you believe your Arab brothers who have forsaken you since 1967 and want no part of the Palestinians will suddenly rise up and try to wipe Isreal from the map again and bring the wrath of the western world who have lined their pockets for decades down upon them?

Until you guys realize that you are your own worst enemy not the evil Zionist, nothing will change for the better.--- GuitarDaddy is spot on 100%!!!

Truth hurts huh???

 

[Lemon law]

CC claims on no basis, "Compromise! Palestinians do not even understand that word."

When it far more applies to Israel instead. Especially when we examine the basic Olmert Palestinian almost complete agreement Obama based his optimism on.

But wait, who do we believe, will it be Netanyuhu in the style of the Iraqi information minister, or will it be the judgement of a 7 billion people world in the UN?

To some extent its silly Israel, they forgot to have the equivalent of an AIPAC in every nation. And now all Israel has done is to remove the USA as any honest mid-east peace broker.

As sure as God made green apples, some other set of nations will become the new mid-east peace brokers, and then the Netanyuhu position will become toast.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I'm pretty sure they want Israel to stop bombing their impoverished country and bulldozing settlements. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

First of all it is not their country and second of all you honestly believe this is one sided??

 

[GuitarDaddy]

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The Israeli danger is that when the world sees through their bullshit, a final settlement will go back to the days of pre-May 1948, when at that time, the Palestinian people owned some 60% of Israeli lands. Subsequently violently stolen and taken away from the Pals at the point of Israeli terrorists guns. The issue still exists and never will go away as its called the right to return.

Oh yes the "right of return" demand. Just more evidence that the Palestinians never accepted the state of Israel. Accepting a sorvereign Isreali state only if you can occuply 60% of its land is not accepting anything. ROFL! I guess you guys are OK if Isreal acknowledges a Palestinian state only if they can have settlements on 60% of your land area! We will call it the Israeli right of return.


LL you are quickly becoming the Bagdad Bob of Palestine! You have no problem presenting the totally illogical and indefensible while you praise the virtues of conmen and hucksters with the zeal of a southern babtist preacher From this day forward you will be known as "Palestine Bob"

 

[dali71]

LL you are quickly becoming the Bagdad Bob of Palestine! You have no problem presenting the totally illogical and indefensible while you praise the virtues of conmen and hucksters with the zeal of a southern babtist preacher From this day forward you will be known as "Palestine Bob"

I still prefer "Lemon Lawl"