Pakistani troops retake naval base from militants

[EagleKeeper]

This thread is getting way out of topic, how did 10 people infiltrate one of the highly militarized camps in Pakistan and almost take control of it? and do we have to worry about the same with nuclear installations there?

Did they take control or just run around and do some damage?

 

[Baasha]

I'm Indian myself and to think the Indian military is the most powerful military in the world is about as retarded as the pakistanis that think their country isn't a shithole.

What part of "one of the most powerful" didn't you get? There's the US, Russia, China, and India. Read up on the history of conflicts in the sub-continent.

 

[lupi]

Unless this is some remote podunk coast guard satellite station, exactly how does a nuclear armed military lose control of a military base.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Unless this is some remote podunk coast guard satellite station, exactly how does a nuclear armed military lose control of a military base.

Reading the story; they never captured or controlled the base.

That is just headlines.

Cut the wire, snuck in, did some damage, were detected and ran. Some were killed, others escaped.

People can also do such at most any military installation in the world. It has been done to US and Soviet by civilians as well as trained military.

It is a matter of determination, planning and not worrying about getting caught.

The more damage one does; the higher risk of getting caught and the penalty that follows.

 

[tydas]

Well, that didn't take long..


NATO concern over Pakistan nuclear arsenal

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2011/05/201152494846175324.html

 

[The Green Bean]

Unless this is some remote podunk coast guard satellite station, exactly how does a nuclear armed military lose control of a military base.

It's not a excuse, but the base was located within settlements in a major urban centre. Apparently, they managed to jump the walls and break in through one of the sides after monitoring it for days. It's also suggested they got in via the sewage drain through one side.
http://propakistani.pk/2011/05/23/pns-mehran-govt-should-ban-google-maps-for-sensitive-locations/

It's more interested to analyze who actually carried out the attacks. Two parties are claiming responsibility: the Taliban and the Indian backed Baloch insurgency. It's hard to believe the Taliban carried out the attack without any foreign help. There are plenty of reasons to believe that Indian elements were involved. The main basis for India's claim that the Mumbai attacks were carried out by Pakistan was the sophisticated weaponry used. In the same way, it would be impossible for the terrorists to acquire the weapons used without a military backing them somewhere. Ofcourse, it is possible that elements within the Pakistani military itself was involved--we should analyze with an open mind.

The Navy has also said that they doubt that this is revenge for OBL's killing. They believe these attacks are related to attacks on Navy personnel in the previous weeks. Security analysts believe that there is no reason why the Taliban would attack a Naval base except show their strength. They could have chosen a softer target, or at least something that was being against them. What good does a naval surveillance aircraft do against terrorism?

India, on the other hand would have plenty to gain:

1) Revenge for the Mumbai attacks.
2) Cripple Pakistan's naval defence which was seen as a major threat to the Indian submarines.
3) Apply more pressure on Pakistan's nuclear assets.
4) Great timing to pounce after the OBL episide--anything that destabilizes Pakistan more.

What I find retarded is that nobody in the Pakistani leadership has taken a stand. The idiot Rehman Malik should be hanged along with Zardari. They keep claiming that this a difficult time but don't tell us what they are doing to make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

[The Green Bean]

Well, that didn't take long..


NATO concern over Pakistan nuclear arsenal

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2011/05/201152494846175324.html

The same story with a different headline is published here:
Pakistan's N-arsenal safe, well protected: Nato
http://geo.tv/5-24-2011/81725.htm

I think people in the media need to stop dramatizing headlines that mislead people into thinking what is not really what the article says.

"Based on the information and intelligence we have, I feel confident that Pakistan's nuclear arsenal is safe and well protected,'' Rasmussen said. "But of course, it is a matter of concern and we follow the situation closely."

It could be taken either way. Now that Aljazeera is owned by the West, bias....

 

[Zebo]

What's funny is after WW2 we gave Pakistan the love poured billions of dollars into that country’s economy, training and equipping its military and its intelligence services with the goal to create a reliable ally with strong institutions and a modern, vigorous democracy and gave nothing to India who tilted to USSR and got the ally and good results with India and Pakistan hates us and is a basket case.

 

[EagleKeeper]

TGB

Where are links regarding the potential for India to be involved in this.

Everything in the media is pointing toward the Taliban.

 

[The Green Bean]

TGB

Where are links regarding the potential for India to be involved in this.

Everything in the media is pointing toward the Taliban.

Looks like this will make headlines tomorrow:
http://tribune.com.pk/story/174523/...e-hidden-hand-indian-internal-or-existential/

 

[cirrrocco]

It's not a excuse, but the base was located within ..................The main basis for India's claim that the Mumbai attacks were carried out by Pakistan was the sophisticated weaponry used . In the same way, it would be impossible for the terrorists to acquire the weapons used without a military backing them somewhere. Ofcourse, it is possible that elements within the Pakistani military itself was involved--we should analyze with an open mind.

.......

............

What I find retarded is that nobody in the Pakistani leadership has taken a stand. The idiot Rehman Malik should be hanged along with Zardari. They keep claiming that this a difficult time but don't tell us what they are doing to make sure it doesn't happen again.

1a. The main basis India knew it was Pakistan is because they were tapping the conversation live and that is what pro-republica released.
1b. India also had GPS trackers from the dead pigs which showed that they started in Karachi. [LOL at freedom fighters attacking the same base where the pigs who attacked Mumbai were trained, Dharmic Karma is a real fucking bitch]

2. why is it the civvies have to be hanged. what about the army / navy guys who are ridiculous , I mean why isnt anyone resigning after all the shit that has happened there.

 

[The Green Bean]

What's funny is after WW2 we gave Pakistan the love poured billions of dollars into that country’s economy, training and equipping its military and its intelligence services with the goal to create a reliable ally with strong institutions and a modern, vigorous democracy and gave nothing to India who tilted to USSR and got the ally and good results with India and Pakistan hates us and is a basket case.

You gave us money until the Soviets were defeated. Then you left and imposed sanctions on us and now you are directly involved in state sponsored terrorism in our country. Even wikipedia agrees that drone strikes and incursions are acts of terrorism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2011

CIA is a terrorist organization.

 

[The Green Bean]

2. why is it the civvies have to be hanged. what about the army / navy guys who are ridiculous , I mean why isnt anyone resigning after all the shit that has happened there.

They'll only resign if the Americans approve. Most appointments are made by American like this Wikileaks suggets:
http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/22/2008-aziz-prefers-likable-but-weak-faheem-over-zardari.html
http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/22/2008-amin-faheem-unprepared-to-become-pm.html

The civilian government is a sham, and now the military top brass seem to be sold out American goons. Fuck all of them. Now you know why we blame the US for our problems. They rule us. They own us. We are a bullied vassal.

 

[K1052]

The utter inability for Pakistan (or Pakistanis in general) to accept ANY responsibility whatsoever for their current state of affairs never ceases to amaze.

Everything negative in Pakistan that happens MUST be a conspiracy crafted by India, the US, Europe, Israel, etc.

 

[Zargon]

You gave us money until the Soviets were defeated. Then you left and imposed sanctions on us and now you are directly involved in state sponsored terrorism in our country. Even wikipedia agrees that drone strikes and incursions are acts of terrorism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2011

CIA is a terrorist organization.

because wiki says it, it has to be true.

also here is the real non redirected link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_armed_conflicts_and_attacks,_2011

that doesnt call them terrorist incidents


but of course, why I would I call them terrorists when techinically they are doing this for the US's interests, you are on the other side of the coin.

 

[EagleKeeper]

You gave us money until the Soviets were defeated. Then you left and imposed sanctions on us and now you are directly involved in state sponsored terrorism in our country. Even wikipedia agrees that drone strikes and incursions are acts of terrorism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2011

CIA is a terrorist organization.

This article is incomplete and may require expansion or cleanup. Please help to improve the article, or discuss the issue on the talk page. (January 2011)

*Non-state attacks in Pakistan are most likely perpetrated by the Pakistani Taliban or a faction thereof, though the Balochistan Liberation Army is active largely in Balochistan alone; while state attacks are either the responsibility of the United States' Central Intelligence Agency's drone bombings or the Pakistan Army.

Drone attacks on Taliban militants
Incursion (Bin Laden - I expect is the issue) is due to Pakistan being unable to be trusted with information on AQ based on previous info exchanges.

The ISS can also be considered to be a terrorist organization.
People are targeted to be killed, kidnapped and interrogated by intelligence agencies all over the world. The CIA "stands out" only be of publicity and the USA

 

[EagleKeeper]

TGB

Where are links regarding the potential for India to be involved in this.

Everything in the media is pointing toward the Taliban.

Looks like this will make headlines tomorrow:
http://tribune.com.pk/story/174523/...e-hidden-hand-indian-internal-or-existential/

I suspect that this will not make headlines.

You have the musing of a security analyst; a couple of people making wild eye guesses.

Yet the security of the bases is well documented.

If Pakistan comes up with evidence and India did w/ that attack then questions that should be answered can be asked.

Here, without evidence, it points toward incompetence and refusal to prepare after previous incidents.

 

[Zebo]

You gave us money until the Soviets were defeated. Then you left and imposed sanctions on us and now you are directly involved in state sponsored terrorism in our country. Even wikipedia agrees that drone strikes and incursions are acts of terrorism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2011

CIA is a terrorist organization.

That just false. Soviets ended in 1990 - 1991. Sanctions on Pakistan were in 1998 after you secretly used all the aid and built nukes instead of helping your people for better life. epeen to keep up with India which is going to get you killed most likely if terrorists gain control of your country which won't surprise me one bit judging from you.

I generally agree with you those bombings are uncool. For the record I don't and have never supported these wars let alone bombing weddings.

 

[routan]

That just false. Soviets ended in 1990 - 1991. Sanctions on Pakistan were in 1998 after you secretly used all the aid and built nukes instead of helping your people for better life. epeen to keep up with India which is going to get you killed most likely if terrorists gain control of your country which won't surprise me one bit judging from you.

I generally agree with you those bombings are uncool. For the record I don't and have never supported these wars let alone bombing weddings.

Actually the Pressler ammendment was enacted in 1985. Please check your facts.

 

[Genx87]

Actually the Pressler ammendment was enacted in 1985. Please check your facts.

But wasnt enforced until 1989 after they developed nuclear weapons.

 

[yllus]

India split Pakistan in half in 4 days in the 1971 war. Indian air-force also handed the US air-force its ass on a platter at Operation Red Flag at Nellis in 2008; with subpar equipment too. Kind of like how IITs compete with harvard/mit when they have 1/1000th the funding.

The Indian Air Force did no such thing in 2008. That exercise had 12 IAF jets set against 4 USAF F-15s with downgraded capabilities (to allow the IAF to simulate exercises against likely enemies). Most of those capabilities involved to ability to fight beyond visual range, which meant that the F-15s were almost certainly going to lose.

It also wasn't meant as some sort of Olympic event to score nations on their relative ability - it was a friendly exercise to help each nation learn lessons about fighting war.

Here's an Indian television network overreacting to a USAF debrief about the performance of the IAF. Doesn't sound like things went all that well for the IAF - which is exactly the point of these exercises, to expose your weaknesses so you might start to address and correct them. Unfortunately sometimes civilians get involved and blow everything out of proportion.

 

[MotF Bane]

What part of "one of the most powerful" didn't you get? There's the US, Russia, China, and India. Read up on the history of conflicts in the sub-continent.

Sure, and the second through tenth would still get ruined by USA alone.

 

[Genx87]

The Indian Air Force did no such thing in 2008. That exercise had 12 IAF jets set against 4 USAF F-15s with downgraded capabilities (to allow the IAF to simulate exercises against likely enemies). Most of those capabilities involved to ability to fight beyond visual range, which meant that the F-15s were almost certainly going to lose.

It also wasn't meant as some sort of Olympic event to score nations on their relative ability - it was a friendly exercise to help each nation learn lessons about fighting war.

Here's an Indian television network overreacting to a USAF debrief about the performance of the IAF. Doesn't sound like things went all that well for the IAF - which is exactly the point of these exercises, to expose your weaknesses so you might start to address and correct them. Unfortunately sometimes civilians get involved and blow everything out of proportion.

Disciplinary action lmao. More concerned with saving face than actually improve their defense.

 

[MotF Bane]

Your worthless ancestors were running around naked murdering each other when Indians were discovering the nature of reality.

Many armed gods?

Kind of like how IITs compete with harvard/mit when they have 1/1000th the funding.

Barely ever heard of IITS, MIT is in the news every week.

 

[EagleKeeper]

India split Pakistan in half in 4 days in the 1971 war. Indian air-force also handed the US air-force its ass on a platter at Operation Red Flag at Nellis in 2008; with subpar equipment too. Kind of like how IITs compete with harvard/mit when they have 1/1000th the funding.

The Indian Air Force did no such thing in 2008. That exercise had 12 IAF jets set against 4 USAF F-15s with downgraded capabilities (to allow the IAF to simulate exercises against likely enemies). Most of those capabilities involved to ability to fight beyond visual range, which meant that the F-15s were almost certainly going to lose.

It also wasn't meant as some sort of Olympic event to score nations on their relative ability - it was a friendly exercise to help each nation learn lessons about fighting war.

Here's an Indian television network overreacting to a USAF debrief about the performance of the IAF. Doesn't sound like things went all that well for the IAF - which is exactly the point of these exercises, to expose your weaknesses so you might start to address and correct them. Unfortunately sometimes civilians get involved and blow everything out of proportion.

As stated, equipment was downgraded to simulate the capabilities of either Pakistan or China.

Also the performance parameters and tactics of the Eagles were adjusted to not be the US, but of the anticipated opponent.

Such was done at the request of the IAF planners of the exercise.

The Eagles were simulating and operating under rules of a previous generation technology below the Indian aircraft.
They were not operating as F15s in any sense of the word.

According to some of the F15 drivers, it was frustrating to have to do "dumb" things to allow "fair play" within the engagement rules.

It will be up to the Indian Air Force brass to decide if they want to come back for a "no holds" exercise.