Pakistani troops retake naval base from militants

[The Green Bean]

Not trying to discount your excellent points but Israeli aircraft were mostly old, even the Super-Mirages were no match for the Mig-21 fighters Egypt had. US didnt support Israel military until after 67 and only then just a little after that. What did you guys have?

We used Syrian and Egyptian planes.

 

[OutHouse]

We used Syrian and Egyptian planes.

see below he flew a British jet that belonged to the Royal Jordanian Air Force.

Hawker Hunter

 

[OutHouse]

The Six-Day War started with a far-reaching air attack, code named “Moked”, to shatter the Arab air forces while their aircraft were still on the ground. The attack was planned even before General Mordechai (Moti) Hod, had been appointed Air Force Commander. The main element of the plan was to carry out a massive, simultaneous attack of Israeli first-line aircraft against all Egyptian air force bases - the main Arab air force. This required exact and detailed planning of departure times and approaches of each of the attacking forces, in order to ensure the element of surprise on every target

. On the morning of June 5, the aircraft of the IAF took off from their bases and attacked Egyptian air force bases in Sinai and Egypt. During the first wave, eleven fields were hit (among them some that had also been attacked in the first wave).


In a short, efficient and decisive blow, approximately 300 Egyptian aircraft, including bombers, combat planes and helicopters, were destroyed in less than 2 hours. The main air threat against Israel was eliminated and the Israel Defense Forces achieved air supremacy when Jordanian, Syrian and Iraqi aircraft attacked targets in Israel. Once it was clear that King Hussein, the Jordanian leader, had chosen to undertake a military campaign on the Jerusalem front, the Israel Air Force turned to the Jordanian airfields in Amman and Mafrak and destroyed a large part of the Jordanian Air Force. When the confrontation was further extended on the same day over Syria and Iraq, Israeli aircraft continued their combat against these countries and also destroyed their aircraft. Airfields attacked in Syria included Damascus, Damir and Seikel. In Iraq, the H-3 airfield in the vicinity of the Jordanian border was attacked. Before the end of the first day of fighting, the air forces of the participating Arab states had been destroyed, thereby determining the fate of the entire war. Israeli armored forces could then fight the battle under “clear skies”, and air force pilots were free to provide support to IDF ground forces in all the sectors, the breakthrough and transportation axes without leaving the rear of the State of Israel in danger of air attack.

Israel Air Force losses in the fateful day of the battle were a total of 20 aircraft. Twelve pilots were killed, five were wounded and four captured.

 

[OutHouse]

We used Syrian and Egyptian planes.

Saiful Azam is a not heard of much in aircombat. Azam has the unique distinction of having kills against airforces of two different countries. as a young flying officer during the 65 Conflict, Saiful Azam managed to shoot down an IAF Gnat on Sept 18th, a rarity as such the Gnat was seldom lost in Aircombat. his victim Fg Off V Mayadev ejected to become a POW.

Azam participated two years later in the Arab Israeli conflict of June 1967. deputed to the Royal Jordanian Air Force, flying Hunters, the RJAF Hunters were flown out to the Iraqi Airbase of H-3 in an attempt to put them out of range of Israeli Air Force. It was here he accomplished a unique feat, flying in a Hawker Hunter as a No.2 His formation intercepted an Israeli formation of Four Vautours and Two Mirage IIIs. One of the Mirage IIIs was flown by Capt. Gideon Dror. Dror shot down Azam's Wingman, but himself fell to Azam's Guns. Dror ejected to be taken POW. Moments later, Azam intercepted the formation of four Vantour Bombers and bought down one of them flown by Capt Golan, who ejected. . Azam had earlier bought down a Super Mystere the previous day over Jordan. Azam , being a Bengali did not fly in the 71 conflict.

In the final reckoning Azam ties up with Alam in terms of kills, but his tally has a range of kills including the enviable credit of a Mach 2 Mirage III Fighter.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Interesting.

'New kind of militant' behind Pakistan Karachi attack"

"Military formation: One injured sailor told an official that the attackers "moved and dressed like us". The militants moved in tactical military formation and spoke in military parlance. They spoke between themselves in Urdu, as well as a foreign language.

Clothing and equipment: The militants wore combat fatigues, according to officials - and had night vision goggles, carrying rocket propelled grenades [RPGs]. "It takes months of training for ease with the goggles, and years to be expert," one official told me.

Tactics and a plan: One witness said that even though the militants had clear sight of them, "they ignored us... Instead, they just aimed RPGs at the two Orions [planes] parked on the tarmac." They were clearly under instructions to destroy military hardware. They also changed tactics easily and broke away in groups, which clearly had different aims.

Crack shots: "They were excellent shots - as good as any we have," said one security official involved in the operation. They used their night vision goggles to maximum effect, witnesses say - and that was an advantage they had until the SSG-N team arrived at the scene. When the gun battle began, one security official said, it was clear that these men could "hold their own" in a firefight. The fact that they had M16 carbines and sniper rifles also set them apart."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13508864

In any case, RIP to the fallen, seems something is going on here and they were caught in the middle.

 

[Baasha]

Sure, and the second through tenth would still get ruined by USA alone.

LOL... The US is scared of China... It won't even go to a full scale war with North Korea.. a nuclear-armed pest much smaller than China..

 

[Baasha]

Many armed gods?

Actually, with no arms or any attributes at all. The formless, transcendent, yet immanent reality that is [Nirguna] Brahman.

You are too stupid as an untouchable to understand.

You're better off worshiping that dead jew on a stick. XD

Barely ever heard of IITS, MIT is in the news every week.

You barely hear of anything because you don't read. You're too stupid to know anything about any other place than the dump you live in.

Read up on IITs; that is, if you can read at all.


---------------------------
Take your racial and religious bigotry elsewhere. It is not welcome here.

Common Courtesy
AT Admin

 

[Baasha]

The Indian Air Force did no such thing in 2008. That exercise had 12 IAF jets set against 4 USAF F-15s with downgraded capabilities (to allow the IAF to simulate exercises against likely enemies). Most of those capabilities involved to ability to fight beyond visual range, which meant that the F-15s were almost certainly going to lose.

It also wasn't meant as some sort of Olympic event to score nations on their relative ability - it was a friendly exercise to help each nation learn lessons about fighting war.

Here's an Indian television network overreacting to a USAF debrief about the performance of the IAF. Doesn't sound like things went all that well for the IAF - which is exactly the point of these exercises, to expose your weaknesses so you might start to address and correct them. Unfortunately sometimes civilians get involved and blow everything out of proportion.

That's interesting. I suppose I saw only side of the story then. I know it was a 'friendly exercise' but I was really surprised to read about the performance of the IAF pilots. Of course, the Sukhoi MKI will trounce the F-15 in a dogfight. The F22 will beat the Sukhoi MKI but the current PAK-FA being developed by Russia/India is supposed to be the best 5th Gen. fighter jet.

Also, are the F22s seeing any action in Afghanistan/Iraq? I heard something about the US govt. cutting the orders/program short due to cost overruns etc.

 

[Baasha]

To become second best; you have to train against the best.

India should request Israel or the US to play in the sandbox.

Yes, joint exercises definitely help each country.

Here's an Indian/US joint exercise that took place in Alaska called Yudh Abyas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjAOUKYsPcA&feature=related

Celebration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud-BCRxXoCk&feature=related

 

[Baasha]

The Baloch insurgency sponsored by India and the Kashmiri one by Pakistan have cost us trillions in opportunity costs. The main beneficiary of this? The USA. Divide and rule. And Wikileaks suggests that the USA rules us--and according to many they are worse than the British. We need another independence struggle.

LOL.. conspiracy theories must give you Pakistanis migraines no?

And, I agree that the west has the last laugh at the conflicts in the subcontinent.

If you actually read about Kashmir, you must know that the real struggle is about water, not land.

 

[Karl Agathon]

LOL.. conspiracy theories must give you Pakistanis migraines no?

And, I agree that the west has the last laugh at the conflicts in the subcontinent.

If you actually read about Kashmir, you must know that the real struggle is about water, not land.

I hear they think the jews control the weather too. Among other silly conspiracies.

 

[Zebo]

Well we haven't gone to all out war but the proxy wars have caused far more damage. The Baloch insurgency sponsored by India and the Kashmiri one by Pakistan have cost us trillions in opportunity costs. The main beneficiary of this? The USA. Divide and rule. And Wikileaks suggests that the USA rules us--and according to many they are worse than the British. We need another independence struggle.

Uh don't you have free will? Must be nice to blame others for your problems, does you no favors but if it makes you sleep better in those shacks okay.

 

[Karl Agathon]

LOL... The US is scared of China... It won't even go to a full scale war with North Korea.. a nuclear-armed pest much smaller than China..

LOL are you serious? North Korea would start shelling Seoul the moment the U.S. went to "full scale war" with her. So why exactly would the U.S. attack North Korea first? it has nothing to do with being scared. its about stopping millions of deaths in South Korea. Not to mention the mass casualties should the U.S. pulverize North korea which it easly could. As for China, just how is the U.S. scared? What reason would there be? Nuclear weapons? The U.S. has more then enough to end Red Chinas existance if China used one first. Navy? Umm still not much of a match there. China is of course building theirs up, still wont be a direct match for decades, if ever. China and North Korea have defined borders, target rich enviornments and armed forces that can be easly targeted. it wouldnt be like fighting insurgents who dont wear a uniform and dont represent one specific country.

 

[Zebo]

Ever is a long time. If there is one sure fire thing about history is empires rise and fall at a rapid pace.

 

[pcgeek11]

The beloved patriot military couldn't shoot its way out of a paper bag.

Better watch the P word ...

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I also thing there is a foreign hand in this. Security analysts say that the Taliban would have nothing to gain by attacking a naval base. The navy has not been conducting any operations against them, nor are the destroyed orion 3C surveillance aircraft going to to be used against them. They could have chosen other, softer targets and caused more damage and panic.

Of course you do. None of us are shocked.

LOL @ Pakistan and their "military." It is amazing the lengths you go through to defend or justify their complete ineptitude.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

A team of 10 to 15 militants armed with rocket launchers, AK-47s and hand grenades stormed the Mehran Naval Station late Sunday, destroyed two U.S.-supplied maritime surveillance aircraft at the base and then engaged Pakistani navy commandos and soldiers in a pitched firefight that ended late Monday afternoon.


He stole an unarmed low-level tank from a national guard facility as a former soldier himself. A dozen militants stormed an active naval facility, blew things up, and kept everybody busy for a day with shooting. Nope, no comparison at all!

It's TGB -- logic has no place!

 

[IndyColtsFan]

India split Pakistan in half in 4 days in the 1971 war. Indian air-force also handed the US air-force its ass on a platter at Operation Red Flag at Nellis in 2008; with subpar equipment too.

Link? Because that isn't what I've read and the details paint a different picture.

Red Flag Air Force Exercise 2008 is where USA's F-15's and F-16 Pilots out-performed India's SU-30MKI's.

 

[JTsyo]

Interesting.

'New kind of militant' behind Pakistan Karachi attack"

"Military formation: One injured sailor told an official that the attackers "moved and dressed like us". The militants moved in tactical military formation and spoke in military parlance. They spoke between themselves in Urdu, as well as a foreign language.

Clothing and equipment: The militants wore combat fatigues, according to officials - and had night vision goggles, carrying rocket propelled grenades [RPGs]. "It takes months of training for ease with the goggles, and years to be expert," one official told me.

Tactics and a plan: One witness said that even though the militants had clear sight of them, "they ignored us... Instead, they just aimed RPGs at the two Orions [planes] parked on the tarmac." They were clearly under instructions to destroy military hardware. They also changed tactics easily and broke away in groups, which clearly had different aims.

Crack shots: "They were excellent shots - as good as any we have," said one security official involved in the operation. They used their night vision goggles to maximum effect, witnesses say - and that was an advantage they had until the SSG-N team arrived at the scene. When the gun battle began, one security official said, it was clear that these men could "hold their own" in a firefight. The fact that they had M16 carbines and sniper rifles also set them apart."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13508864

In any case, RIP to the fallen, seems something is going on here and they were caught in the middle.

:hmm:

 

[IndyColtsFan]

LOL... The US is scared of China... It won't even go to a full scale war with North Korea.. a nuclear-armed pest much smaller than China..

LOL! You ARE delusional. Why would the US fear China? If there were a conflict over Taiwan, for example, the US would easily turn the Chinese back. Why do you think China hasn't invaded Taiwan? Why do you think that when they start rattling their sabers about Taiwan and the US sends a CBG to the area, they back down?

Also, do you have any common sense? Please enlighten all of us why it would be worth American lives and tax dollars to invade/subdue/defeat North Korea. What would the US gain? What does NK have that the US would want? Why is North Korea the problem of the US? Have you noticed how North Korea always wants direct talks with the US but the US refuses and says SK, Japan, China, and Russia need to be involved? Why do you suppose that is?

Seriously, you guys have zero clue about how powerful the US military is. You use Iraq and Afghanistan as signs of "weakness" without using an ounce of common sense to see that the military is completely constrained politically with what it can do. Trust me, if the gloves came off and Afghanistan became a full-scale war, the US could wipe the country out in very little time.

Oh, and before you scream about how much money the US owes China, allow me to repeat a great quote from Zebo:

When you owe the bank $1000, that's your problem. When you owe the bank $1 billion, that's the bank's problem.

 

[dabuddha]

Sadly Baasha's ignorance is quite common in India :/ I have to hear the same shit from some of my cousins when I go visit. It comes from an inferiority complex mostly. But given that, they're still miles better than our neighbors from the north

 

[Zargon]

just an FYI

being afriad != avoid conflict because its not worth it

 

[busydude]

"Sadly Baasha 's ignorance is quite common in India :/ I have to hear the same shit from some of my cousins when I go visit. It comes from an inferiority complex mostly. But given that, they're still miles better than our neighbors from the north "

Baasha is not your typical Indian, he was born and raised in the US IIRC. He tries to spin everything in India's favor... But yeah I think he has inferiority complex. Baasha seems to be extremely well educated.. Probably brain washed himself.

 

[Karl Agathon]

LOL! You ARE delusional. Why would the US fear China? If there were a conflict over Taiwan, for example, the US would easily turn the Chinese back. Why do you think China hasn't invaded Taiwan? Why do you think that when they start rattling their sabers about Taiwan and the US sends a CBG to the area, they back down?

Also, do you have any common sense? Please enlighten all of us why it would be worth American lives and tax dollars to invade/subdue/defeat North Korea. What would the US gain? What does NK have that the US would want? Why is North Korea the problem of the US? Have you noticed how North Korea always wants direct talks with the US but the US refuses and says SK, Japan, China, and Russia need to be involved? Why do you suppose that is?

Seriously, you guys have zero clue about how powerful the US military is. You use Iraq and Afghanistan as signs of "weakness" without using an ounce of common sense to see the the military is completely constrained politically with what it can do. Trust me, if the gloves came off and Afghanistan because a full-scale war, the US could wipe the country out in very little time.

Oh, and before you scream about how much money the US owes China, allow me to repeat a great quote from Zebo:

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[The Green Bean]

Carrying forward the discussion about pilots, just recently, Pakistani F16 pilots beat the RAF's Eurofighters. An impressive feat:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/08/eurofighter_beaten_by_f16/

3-0. What does JohnOfSheffield think about his shit military?