Pakistan: Still Showing Us the Love

[Fern]

Pakistan spy agency accused of directing attacks against US targets

The Pakistani government, through its intelligence service, is "actively involved" in directing the militant Haqqani network to launch terrorist attacks against U.S. and Afghan government targets in Kabul, U.S. military officials tell NBC News.

The officials told NBC News the ISI, Pakistan's powerful spy agency, directed the attacks by Haqqani militants on the U.S. Embassy on Sept. 13 and on the Inter-Continental Hotel on June 28. It's suspected ISI also had a role in the massive truck bombing targeting an American base in eastern Afghanistan on the eve of the 10th anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks, the officials said

In a congressional hearing Thursday, Joint Chiefs Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen called the Haqqani network a "veritable arm" of the ISI. Testifying alongside Mullen, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said the U.S. has warned Pakistani authorities it will not tolerate a continuation of the group's cross-border attacks.

According to one senior military official, "the attacks are aimed at undermining the credibility of the Afghan government" so when the Americans leave, Pakistan will wield some influence over Kabul, NBC reported. "They're double-dealing," cooperating with the U.S. against al-Qaida in Pakistan, on the other undermining (hand) U.S. efforts in Afghanistan."

Repeating a charge he made earlier this week, Mullen said Thursday that with Pakistani support the Haqqanis were behind not only the Sept. 13 embassy assault but also a recent truck bomb that wounded 77 U.S. soldiers and a June 28 attack against the Inter-Continental Hotel in Kabul — as well as "a host of other smaller but effective operations."

With friends like this who needs enemies?

So when we withdraw from Iraq we must be concerned with Iran inserting itself. Now when we withdraw from Afghanistan we have the Pakistanis ready to jump and destabilize the Afghani govt?

We've got a lot of fires burning all at once. What's Obama gonna do?

Fern

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Time for a few of those intelligence agents to meet a cruise missile.

 

[Karl Agathon]

Time for a few of those intelligence agents to meet a cruise missile.

:thumbsup:

 

[Nebor]

We are in such a bad situation with Pakistan... We need to just abandon Afghanistan immediately. They want to fuck with us, they can deal with all the weapons and military training we've dumped into Afghanistan after we leave and Afghanistan returns to a completely lawless non-state.

 

[JS80]

Can we bomb Pakistan now? Or can't cuz they got nukes?

 

[benzylic]

Not suprising the ISI would keep close ties with Haqqani. Him and Hekmatyar were two of the Islamic mujaheddin commanders that were heavily favored by the ISI when it came to distribution of supplies and weapons that the CIA funneled through Pakistan. Now both these commanders are leading the insurgency in afghanistan.

 

[Infohawk]

Enough with this bizarro foreign policy. If it quacks like a duck...

 

[Kadarin]

Pakistan is the enemy of the US, and they deserve to be bombed back into the stone age.

 

[Double Trouble]

Time for a few of those intelligence agents to meet a cruise missile.

I'd say it's time to bomb that terrorist country into the stone age, but they're already very close. A few cruise missiles aimed at the homes of some of the senior ISI officials should get the message across.

 

[Nebor]

Can we bomb Pakistan now? Or can't cuz they got nukes?

It's hard to say what they'd do. It would certainly behoove us to move the hundreds of thousands of US ground forces out of their intermediate missile range before trying it though.

 

[DaveSimmons]

1. Leave Afghanistan
2. Inform Pakistan that we no longer need them as a supply route, so if they ever want another dollar of aid from us they can start earning it.

 

[Kadarin]

It's hard to say what they'd do. It would certainly behoove us to move the hundreds of thousands of US ground forces out of their intermediate missile range before trying it though.

They do that, and they will cease to exist as a country (or as inhabitable land).

 

[Nebor]

They do that, and they will cease to exist as a country (or as inhabitable land).

Yeah, but even a freakin' Scud could probably hit Bagram, Kandahar or Salerno from Pakistan. And each of those camps have ~50,000 troops at them.

 

[EagleKeeper]

They supported the Taliban against the occupation by Russia.

Now they support the next group of militants against the occupation.

Rinse/repeat.

As others have stated, pull everything out;provided material/logistical support to existing Afghan government and cut off aid to Pakistan.

Maybe even add closer ties to India to show our displeasure with the way the Pakistani government/system is acting.

 

[Rainsford]

I hate to say it, but I really feel like Pakistan is pretty clearly more enemy than friend at this point. Between them and China, I feel like our focus for an ally in the region should really be on India. A democracy with some cultural ties to the western world seems like our best bet.

 

[Rainsford]

...

Maybe even add closer ties to India to show our displeasure with the way the Pakistani government/system is acting.

I really like that idea. I like the idea of diplomatic relations with as much of the world as possible. But the age of consequence free foreign policy by other countries HAS to be over.

 

[Pocatello]

China is already taking over as Pakistan's best friend, some day China will regret the decision, just as the U.S.

 

[Udgnim]

it's a scary prospect that Pakistan has nukes

 

[badb0y]

China/Pakistan cockriding has been going on for a long time. In fact I think Pakistan was one of the first nations to recognize China's government. (Obviously after Soviet Union et al.)

 

[woolfe9999]

Get out of Afghanistan in the shortest amount of time that is remotely feasible, then cut all aid to Pakistan. I'm tired of paying those bastards and having them stab us in the back.

 

[busydude]

China is already taking over as Pakistan's best friend, some day China will regret the decision, just as the U.S.

China is looking out for its own interest and Pakistan is crying on China's shoulder for support.

America is slowly distancing itself from Pakistan... the problem is US is going to lose a lot of influence in that region as India is bit weary of the US. Economic relations have improved a lot and I see them improving for some time to come.. but the diplomatic relations are pretty weak and still at its infancy between India and The US.

 

[The Green Bean]

Well the USA has very little credibility. They said that Saddam had nukes ready to launch against London and Paris within hours and now they're saying this. They have lost the Afghan war and are looking to put all blame on us. 10 years and Afghanistan is worse than it was to begin with.

The problem for the USA today is that it's not irreplaceable. Senator Mccain has said the USA will not isolate Pakistan like they did in the past. The USA is still the biggest investor in Pakistan but China will overtake them by 2015. They are still our main export market but that is set to change to as we develop stronger trade relations with our neighbors. Besides, the American market is shrinking with their economy struggling. We, on the other hand are out of immediate economic and financial collapse and we won't be needing an IMF loan and we won't have a problem paying them back either.

We no longer need to depend on the USA for our military needs either. Our main enemy in the region is India. However, I don't think we will be able to afford a conventional arms race with them and I think our generals agree with that. We are still aggressively upgrading our conventional arsenal but the strategic focus has shifted towards WMDs. I do think that since Kargil, our approach towards India has shifted to a more defensive approach.

As for the Afghan war, it's over for America. Their only potential sphere of influence in Pakistan has plans of its own. Once the USA leaves, Afghanistan will be another battle zone between the regional powers including Russia, China, Iran and India.

And to those that think that American aid is actually significant: you are getting a great deal. You are getting to use our resources and even have CIA operatives here. The few million in "aid" that we are getting is nowhere near the $70 billion we have suffered in economic losses. Most of your aid is used in fighting militants. There is some aid that has been used for development but it's peanuts compared to what needs to be done. You refuse to grant us better market access. You refuse to give us access to civilian nuclear tech. You refuse to let us build gas pipelines to Iran. You really think you are helping?

The absolute worst that will happen is unilateral military sanctions. I don't think the USA will be successful in imposing an outright arms embargo on us and that could be dangerous. The solution is simple: the USA needs to stop acting like world police. It needs to realize that all is lost in Afghanistan. They need to declare victory, get out and let everybody else figure out what to do with Afghanistan.

Then there is another version: America is blaming Pakistan in public to save face for it's imminent defeat while the situation is different behind closed doors.

 

[crisscross]

Well the USA has very little credibility. They said that Saddam had nukes ready to launch against London and Paris within hours and now they're saying this. They have lost the Afghan war and are looking to put all blame on us. 10 years and Afghanistan is worse than it was to begin with.

The problem for the USA today is that it's not irreplaceable. Senator Mccain has said the USA will not isolate Pakistan like they did in the past. The USA is still the biggest investor in Pakistan but China will overtake them by 2015. They are still our main export market but that is set to change to as we develop stronger trade relations with our neighbors. Besides, the American market is shrinking with their economy struggling. We, on the other hand are out of immediate economic and financial collapse and we won't be needing an IMF loan and we won't have a problem paying them back either.

We no longer need to depend on the USA for our military needs either. Our main enemy in the region is India. However, I don't think we will be able to afford a conventional arms race with them and I think our generals agree with that. We are still aggressively upgrading our conventional arsenal but the strategic focus has shifted towards WMDs. I do think that since Kargil, our approach towards India has shifted to a more defensive approach.

As for the Afghan war, it's over for America. Their only potential sphere of influence in Pakistan has plans of its own. Once the USA leaves, Afghanistan will be another battle zone between the regional powers including Russia, China, Iran and India.

And to those that think that American aid is actually significant: you are getting a great deal. You are getting to use our resources and even have CIA operatives here. The few million in "aid" that we are getting is nowhere near the $70 billion we have suffered in economic losses. Most of your aid is used in fighting militants. There is some aid that has been used for development but it's peanuts compared to what needs to be done. You refuse to grant us better market access. You refuse to give us access to civilian nuclear tech. You refuse to let us build gas pipelines to Iran. You really think you are helping?

The absolute worst that will happen is unilateral military sanctions. I don't think the USA will be successful in imposing an outright arms embargo on us and that could be dangerous. The solution is simple: the USA needs to stop acting like world police. It needs to realize that all is lost in Afghanistan. They need to declare victory, get out and let everybody else figure out what to do with Afghanistan.

Then there is another version: America is blaming Pakistan in public to save face for it's imminent defeat while the situation is different behind closed doors.

Stop blaming other countries for your problems.

 

[Double Trouble]

Once the USA leaves, Afghanistan will be another battle zone between the regional powers including Russia, China, Iran and India.

Hey, have at it, they can all share that piece of garbage of a country, just like they can share pakistan, another terrorist piece of garbage country.

The few million in "aid" that we are getting

Few million? Try $20 billion since 2002. For that kind of money we could have just flattened that garbage heap of a country and converted it into a walmart with a giant parking lot :|

 

[Ausm]

With friends like this who needs enemies?

So when we withdraw from Iraq we must be concerned with Iran inserting itself. Now when we withdraw from Afghanistan we have the Pakistanis ready to jump and destabilize the Afghani govt?

We've got a lot of fires burning all at once. What's Obama gonna do?

Fern

I think we should pull out of ALL the shitholes over there and have permanent flight paths for drones.