P&N atmosphere

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
It doesn't have to be like it is. People can talk politics civilly without rudeness and name calling. Anyone who balks at that statement is part of the problem.

I've never seen such on the Internet with its curtain of anonymity, except with some extremely heavy-handed moderation.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: jbourne77
But hey, congratulations on breaking the seal on four letter words, personal attacks, and gutter innuendo in this thread. If you see yourself in what's being described here, don't blame us. Either way, take it back to P&N.

Wow. If only you could turn this sharp analytical eye onto yourself.

It's funny that you keep repeating this. It seems that the last time you and I interacted, I was actually admitting fault to someone else and you wanted to play Troll:

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski
Not quite. He suggested a Police Escort, like as a normal procedure and not pout of the ordinary. I said that simply needing a Police Escort was over the line already.

Nuance.

Gotchya :thumbsup:

You will now be known as jpalin77. Congratulations.

What about my post is Palin-esque? The fact that I admitted I misunderstood the "nuance" of the post? The fact that I said "Gotchya" instead of "Oh ok, I understand what you were trying to say"?

Grow up, troll.

Another imaginative post from jpalin77. Keep 'em coming. The nonsense is entertaining.

It's most curious that you said a few days ago that you hadn't posted here for a while and that you only came back to assert your views on the subject of a particular thread - and yet you're still here. We've certainly missed your authoritarian pov...

Of course, the thread died at that point: you were allowed the last word 😉 .

Son, you are central to the problem being described, as evidenced there and here. Don't expect any more replies from me.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
It doesn't have to be like it is. People can talk politics civilly without rudeness and name calling. Anyone who balks at that statement is part of the problem.

This has to be one the dumbest posts I've ever read...

So, when did you stop beating your cat? 😀

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: moshquerade
It doesn't have to be like it is. People can talk politics civilly without rudeness and name calling. Anyone who balks at that statement is part of the problem.

I've never seen such on the Internet with its curtain of anonymity, except with some extremely heavy-handed moderation.

To be honest, I've not seen such "IRL" either. I have friends and family from both sides of the aisle who are quite passionate about their beliefs, and whenever politics comes up it rarely ends well. Other than my wife, I refuse to get into any deep political discussion with people I care about, even if we agree. It either turns into wanton bashing of people who aren't there to defend themselves, or it turns into wanton bashing of the people right there in the room. Lose/lose.

I think the P&N rules stipulating OP commentary and fact-base thread titles were a step in the right direction, but I think it needs to be followed up with rules stipulating some level of civility. This past election cycle saw a particularly low level of civility, which the mods stated would be tolerated because it was an election cycle, but I don't think the forum ever really recovered. That hostility became the norm.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: seemingly random
...
Another imaginative post from jpalin77. ...

...

Thanks for reminding me about your new nickname, jpalin77. It is indeed fitting.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
ProJo says he doesn't insult or call people names, he's right he doesn't. What he is though is a partisan hack who posts threads whose purpose is to incite those who have a different opinion than him

EVERYONE in there is a partisan hack, Red. It's telling that you still can't refrain from excusing PJ's treatment in there just because you don't agree with his views.

Why Jbourne are you accusing me of being biased? If so can you give an example when I intervened on anthers behalf when they were given the same treatment as PJ by other members? I bet you can't at least not as a Moderator.

 

[Greenman]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: chalmers
I'm not sure why people get so angry over politics.

Decisions made by our government affect most people financially and morally. So right off the bat, the subject hits home. Then add in the fact that many people do not handle dissent well, and you have a volatile mixture. People who are interested in politics usually feel that they've arrived at their own personal beliefs through a logical process. When that process is challenged by someone who disagrees with their views, some people feel personally insulted. Sometimes it even forces them to confront the notion that what they've believed all along may not actually be correct or the best solution to a certain problem.

I'm sure you've heard of children's "terrible twos". It's a stage of development that is particularly difficult for toddlers (and parents!) because of the fits and tantrums. It occurs because it's the first time a recognizes that mommy, daddy, brother, sister, and playmates don't all have the same needs and desires that they do, and it's so overwhelming and unsettling to them that they break down emotionally. When it comes to politics, I'm convinced that some people still cannot handle/tolerate knowing that not everyone is "smart enough" to agree with them.

Wow. If only you could turn this sharp analytical eye onto yourself.

So, everybody else is fucked up except you (and ProfJohn; hope the reach around is reciprocated). Got it.

And there it is. This was a discussion, ideas were being exchanged, the views of others were being examined, but you couldn't allow that. You had to bring sarcasm, foul language and lewd rhetoric into the mix. In a properly moderated forum you'd be excluded from the thread.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
ProJo says he doesn't insult or call people names, he's right he doesn't. What he is though is a partisan hack who posts threads whose purpose is to incite those who have a different opinion than him

EVERYONE in there is a partisan hack, Red. It's telling that you still can't refrain from excusing PJ's treatment in there just because you don't agree with his views.

Why Jbourne are you accusing me of being biased? If so can you give an example when I intervened on anthers behalf when they were given the same treatment as PJ by other members? I bet you can't at least not as a Moderator.

The "as Moderator" is your qualifier, not mine.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
ProJo says he doesn't insult or call people names, he's right he doesn't. What he is though is a partisan hack who posts threads whose purpose is to incite those who have a different opinion than him

EVERYONE in there is a partisan hack, Red. It's telling that you still can't refrain from excusing PJ's treatment in there just because you don't agree with his views.

Why Jbourne are you accusing me of being biased? If so can you give an example when I intervened on anthers behalf when they were given the same treatment as PJ by other members? I bet you can't at least not as a Moderator.

The "as Moderator" is your qualifier, not mine.

And?

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
ProJo says he doesn't insult or call people names, he's right he doesn't. What he is though is a partisan hack who posts threads whose purpose is to incite those who have a different opinion than him

EVERYONE in there is a partisan hack, Red. It's telling that you still can't refrain from excusing PJ's treatment in there just because you don't agree with his views.

Why Jbourne are you accusing me of being biased? If so can you give an example when I intervened on anthers behalf when they were given the same treatment as PJ by other members? I bet you can't at least not as a Moderator.

The "as Moderator" is your qualifier, not mine.

And?

... and, as a member, yes, you're biased. You selectively apply standards, just like everyone else does. You say PJ is a partisan hack, but propped up against most of P&N, he's a Nobel Peace Prize candidate. Yes, he has an agenda. Name one person in there who doesn't. He (and PJABBER, while we're on it) gets called out for posting content that he's selected to support his stance. It's hilarious that he's chided for it; he's a partisan hack for not doing the opposition's work for them. At least he does it in a civil manner that doesn't rely on insults and shouting to deliver a message; it's done in a manner conducive to discussion, regardless of whether you think he has an agenda and has filtered his sources. That's what this thread is about. Unfortunately, in P&N, it's not about who poses the best argument, but rather who can rally the largest mob and lob the most insults.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: jbourne77
[... and, as a member, yes, you're biased.

Yes I am but as a Moderator I try my best not to be.

You selectively apply standards, just like everyone else does. You say PJ is a partisan hack, but propped up against most of P&N, he's a Nobel Peace Prize candidate. Yes, he has an agenda. Name one person in there who doesn't. He (and PJABBER, while we're on it) gets called out for posting content that he's selected to support his stance. It's hilarious that he's chided for it; he's a partisan hack for not doing the opposition's work for them. At least he does it in a civil manner that doesn't rely on insults and shouting to deliver a message; it's done in a manner conducive to discussion, regardless of whether you think he has an agenda and has filtered his sources. That's what this thread is about. Unfortunately, in P&N, it's not about who poses the best argument, but rather who can rally the largest mob and lob the most insults.

Kind of like Town Halls, News Talk on the Radio and Cable News Programs like you see on Fox and MSNBC. In essence P&N directly reflects society.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Greenman
... In a properly moderated forum you'd be excluded from the thread.

And everybody else would be asleep - or else it would be like a prayer meet'n.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jbourne77
[... and, as a member, yes, you're biased.

Yes I am but as a Moderator I try my best not to be.

Fair enough :thumbsup: . FWIW, I honestly was not speaking to the actions of Red Dawn the moderator, but rather Red Dawn the poster.

Kind of like Town Halls, News Talk on the Radio and Cable News Programs like you see on Fox and MSNBC. In essence P&N directly reflects society.

It directly reflects the vitriol and fear mongering of the loudest proponents of the two primary parties. It reflects a small, but disgusting segment of society.

edit - fixed jacked quotes

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: jbourne77
It directly reflects the vitriol and fear mongering of the loudest proponents of the two primary parties. It reflects a small, but disgusting segment of society.

Yeah those that are actively involved with discussing politics.

 

[spittledip]

This really isn't the place to be calling out mods- from what I understand that is a bannable offense. The mods, when posting as "posters" have every right to act the same as everybody else. They obey the rules that they have established. Occasionally they might show some bias in modding a thread, but this is to be expected from humans.

This does not mean that new rules can't be established. It is also silly to think that people can't discuss news/politics in a civil manner. If anyone has noticed, there are many posters in P&N who post without being rude or insulting. What that means is that choosing to not be insulting is just that- a choice. If some people can make that choice, then everyone can make that choice. Some people might not want to make that choice, but that is what rules are for.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: spittledip
I am just wondering why people are allowed to be so rude to one another and insult one another on P&N.
-snip-

This is often a topic of discussion by the moderator group. It's tough to know where to draw the line, and no matter where you draw it someone's gonna be unhappy. I'll point out we now have others complaining about over-moderation in OT.

BTW: I'm speaking only for myself as a moderator in P&N and not in any offical capacity.

Fern

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: spittledip
I am just wondering why people are allowed to be so rude to one another and insult one another on P&N.
-snip-

This is often a topic of discussion by the moderator group. It's tough to know where to draw the line, and no matter where you draw it someone's gonna be unhappy. I'll point out we now have others complaining about over-moderation in OT.

BTW: I'm speaking only for myself as a moderator in P&N and not in any offical capacity.

Fern

Can we make a trade? More moderation in P&N, less for OT?

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: spittledip
I am just wondering why people are allowed to be so rude to one another and insult one another on P&N.
-snip-

This is often a topic of discussion by the moderator group. It's tough to know where to draw the line, and no matter where you draw it someone's gonna be unhappy. I'll point out we now have others complaining about over-moderation in OT.

BTW: I'm speaking only for myself as a moderator in P&N and not in any offical capacity.

Fern

The moderation in the thread dissing women was entirely justified. A wake-up call was in order. The only thing that should have been different is that harvey should have called the mothers and informed them how their sons 'joke around' about women. Sorry guys - you were going down an ugly path and needed to be smacked...

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Greenman

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The sad thing is that it doesn't have to be that way.

Just outlaw the name calling, insults and excessive trolling and see what happens.

Force members to behave like adults or send them packing. And make sure the rules apply to all members equally too.

That's where your system is going to fall apart, and it's why P&N has to be a shit hole. There is no one to watch the watchers.
If they really wanted it to work, the mods wouldn't be allowed to post anything in P&N. That ain't never going to happen.

You know why? Because they wouldn't be able to find anybody to moderate that forum if the Mods weren't allowed to post there. Even without the name calling and insults P&N is hateful place, the Right and Left hate each other and the Moderates hate them both. It's a blame game. ProJo says he doesn't insult or call people names, he's right he doesn't. What he is though is a partisan hack who posts threads whose purpose is to incite those who have a different opinion than him and he's not the only one that does it. When you piss people off they aren't going to behave civilly.

Exactly!!!
BTW well said description of P & N!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
It doesn't have to be like it is. People can talk politics civilly without rudeness and name calling. Anyone who balks at that statement is part of the problem.

Actually you are totally wrong!!! You disclaimer at the end is bogus!
As guyver01 stated -- two kinds of discussions that will never occurr civilly:
Politics
Religion

when it comes down to it... everyone is a fanatic on one side or the other.

to expect a civil discussion from two different, very strong minded and stubborn sides... just will never happen... it will always degrade down to name calling.

if you don't like it... don't visit or open threads like those.

plain and simple.

Go read some of the more inflamatory posts....see where the thread starts to break down....

Also one thing the mods have done recently to get a hand on the out and out lies that permeate P&N is to make the OP of threads accountable for not mis-representing the title of the thread and for not allowing the Op`s to out and out lie in order to create instant threrad havoc!!.

 

[chalmers]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: chalmers
I'm not sure why people get so angry over politics.

Decisions made by our government affect most people financially and morally. So right off the bat, the subject hits home. Then add in the fact that many people do not handle dissent well, and you have a volatile mixture. People who are interested in politics usually feel that they've arrived at their own personal beliefs through a logical process. When that process is challenged by someone who disagrees with their views, some people feel personally insulted. Sometimes it even forces them to confront the notion that what they've believed all along may not actually be correct or the best solution to a certain problem.

I'm sure you've heard of children's "terrible twos". It's a stage of development that is particularly difficult for toddlers (and parents!) because of the fits and tantrums. It occurs because it's the first time a recognizes that mommy, daddy, brother, sister, and playmates don't all have the same needs and desires that they do, and it's so overwhelming and unsettling to them that they break down emotionally. When it comes to politics, I'm convinced that some people still cannot handle/tolerate knowing that not everyone is "smart enough" to agree with them.

Ah gotcha. I'm glad I don't care about any of that crap.

edit: That crap being government and politics that is. It is fun to watch armchair politicians argue over it though.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: spittledip
I am just wondering why people are allowed to be so rude to one another and insult one another on P&N.
-snip-

This is often a topic of discussion by the moderator group. It's tough to know where to draw the line, and no matter where you draw it someone's gonna be unhappy. I'll point out we now have others complaining about over-moderation in OT.

BTW: I'm speaking only for myself as a moderator in P&N and not in any offical capacity.

Fern

The moderation in the thread dissing women was entirely justified. A wake-up call was in order. The only thing that should have been different is that harvey should have called the mothers and informed them how their sons 'joke around' about women. Sorry guys - you were going down an ugly path and needed to be smacked...

The people complaining about the bans are the ones who know they went over the line and honestly believe that they couold say anything they want in OT and get away with it.

OT is moderated differently that P&N...get over it!!!

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
The people complaining about the bans are the ones who know they went over the line and honestly believe that they couold say anything they want in OT and get away with it.

OT is moderated differently that P&N...get over it!!!

I notice you post similar things in just about every thread in this forum. While that's certainly the most stress-free way to handle it, voicing concerns and displaying problems can make the forums better for everyone.

Also, as someone's sig almost-says, we're all customers. It's our policy to bitch. 😛

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: spittledip
I am just wondering why people are allowed to be so rude to one another and insult one another on P&N.
-snip-

This is often a topic of discussion by the moderator group. It's tough to know where to draw the line, and no matter where you draw it someone's gonna be unhappy. I'll point out we now have others complaining about over-moderation in OT.

BTW: I'm speaking only for myself as a moderator in P&N and not in any offical capacity.

Fern

How about you go take a look at that Bob Novak death thread? If you can't read that and see where the line has been crossed then you must be blind. I can guarantee you when Ted Kennedy passes due to his bout with brain cancer the types of comments seen in that thread will result in vacations. It is even more disgusting than I expected to find when I learned of his passing today.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: moshquerade
It doesn't have to be like it is. People can talk politics civilly without rudeness and name calling. Anyone who balks at that statement is part of the problem.

This has to be one the dumbest posts I've ever read...

So, when did you stop beating your cat? 😀

I have to ask you... what are you even talking about?