P-4 puts Thunderbird to shame !!!!!!!!!!!

[mechBgon]

SammySon, I hope you are right. The general "work smarter, not harder" idea is a good one. Let's hope that optomization actually accomplishes something this time around.

 

[MaJik]

jesus christ you guys are still posting on this topic?
what is the big discussion?
P4=fastest thing out
tbird=very fast/affordable

if you can buy a P4 and overclock it to 1.7Ghz+ great
most people can hardly aford a tbird 1.0Ghz thats why more people have them, because they are are the best thing for your money.

I dont get why everybody is bitching about AMD is way better then intel or intel is better then AMD.
Intel doesn't keep its prices high because its fun there are reasons behind it.
And AMD doesn't sell them for cheap because they are crappy

 

[dennilfloss]

"P4=fastest thing out"

MaJik,

I'm pretty sure that this 2GHz DDR Athlon (not mine BTW) would smoke a 1.7GHz P4 in most tasks.

Me drools...

 

[Zephyr]

<< Trying to be as fair and impartial as possible (something you should try) >>


Hopefully you don't see yourself as impartial. At least NOS and frustrated2 admits to being Intel fans. Eiter you are trying to give your statemnts more weight by claiming to be impartial or you're in serious selfdenial.


<< B) don't keep up with stocks >>


Yes I keep up with key stocks that are important to me on a daily basis


<< Again, Intel is first and foremost answerable to their stockholders, so pricing behavoir that WE think is screwing people over is in fact an attempt to keep the greedy people who own stock in the company happy. >>


Exactly my point about not blaming Intel as a company for charging the prices they typically have been. Who's not reading who's posts here?


<< As far as Palomino is concerned, I really don't see it as too much of a threat, since it is widely assumed that in order to reach >1.5 Ghz, they are going to have to resort to some of the pipelining tricks used in P4, thereby crppling performance... >>


Hardly &quot;widely assumed&quot;. There have been speculations about it. However they will hardly need to redesign the core to reach >1500MHz, there are two other (IMO much more attractive solutions) 1) A die shrink to .13micron process (FAB 30 is .13micron ready, meaning this can be done without a retool, which means relatively easy) 2)The switch to SOI process technology. SOI seems very promising AMD had demoed a 1500MHz palomino ES. built on SOI fittred with only passive heatsink, and cool enough to touch (~ <50 degrees C)


<< You brought up the intersting topic of what Intel has done to be anti-competitive...keep in mind that they could be doing a lot more of that (they can afford) it but they did not. >>


And they would if they could get away with it. However as a near monopoly Intel is walking a tightrope, controlling the market as much as possible without calling the wrath of the authorities upon them. Personally I believe the legislation is way too weak on this field and that Intel gets away with way too much as it is, but that's my personal political opinion.


<< Again, the primary point of my posts is to get people like youself (and by extention tom from Tom's Hardware) is to get people like yourself to quit the Intel OR AMD bashing... >>


I see nothing wrong with a heated debate. If it offends anyone they'll know to stay out of it by reading the first few posts (50 or so).


<< since the facts will be twisted on personal bias to suit whatever their personal opinion is. >>


Now there's something wrong with having an opinion? And here I thought all along discussion forums were all about opinions... Also, yes facts are twisted on both sides (or rather I'd say selected carefully)... if this upsets you I'd suggest never to watch a political debate


<< . I have read reports of Engineers at Intel who wanted a stronger FPU and larger caches, but they could not...NOT BECAUSE IT WAS RUSHED OUT THE DOOR!! instead the did it because they could not do it with the current .18 mu process. >>


Now we're getting somewhere, finally a good debate on a technical level
First of all, I don't see how my statemen about it being rushed is contradictionary to yours. I did no state the reasons for it being cripples to rush it out the door. My point is this, if you can't build the chip properly on .18 mu process, then it was rushed out the door to be built on .18 mu process rather than wait for the .13 mu process technology upon which it could be built with an adequate FPU. Hereby assuming your statement is correct, I'm still inclined to belive Intel sacrificed preformance in order to reach higher clockspeeds for marketingreasons. Nevertheless the conclusion must be, the P4 IS a crippled design, and my question is, should we accept and pay fortunes for crippled designs just because they come with an Intel insde sticker?


<< Zephyr, and to others on both sides....could we PLEASE, PLEASE stop all this bull!!! Zephyr, you in particular, could you at least TRY to be fair, and not gloat or boo or hiss either processor? >>


I will gloat, boo and hiss in anyway this helps to express my opinion on a product. Furthermore I tell it like I see it, if you think that is being unfair, well then that is your opinion. Besides the concept &quot;fairness&quot; died with the reviews of the original K7 model 1 Several prominent hardware review sites actually withheld benchmarks showing the K7 mob the floor with Intels katmai offerings, because it was seen unfit to get in trouble with the sponsors with such unwanted facts. Take this as a load of BS if you like, I will not produce any kind of evidence to back up this statement, I have to protect my sources


<< ? I think we all know that Intel is NOT marketing hype alone. >>


Since the release of the K7 it has been.. IMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (if I'm allowed to have one that is)


<< Friends have wondered why I prefered Intel and went in for AMD bashing, even in the last year when they were obviously were producing the better product? Well, I did it as a statement against AMD Zealots....I don't go in for bandwagons, especially bandwagons with this kind of unreasonable bitterness and hatred...I just don't get it....even the arguments against Intel are never delivered with anything but sarcasm and harsh words (that's my issue with Tom Pabst). >>


That's pretty funny, almost ironic. See te reason I never went for Intel is that I don't go for bandwagons. I'll clarify the background for this &quot;cpu war&quot; a bit for you. See back in the days of the 486 AMDs and Intels offerings were 99% identical in design and preformance. So what Intel did, a stroke of genious btw, was to differtiate their product on a marketing level, the &quot;intel inside&quot; campaign. With this brilliant plan they went forth and established themselves as representatives for quality and stability. All based on a lie since there was no actual difference. It worked however combined with bogging down AMD with groundless lawsuits of patent infringement, they got the leap ahead they needed. The rest is history I believe. This raises two issues, 1) Should I as a political consumer accept being lied to and not take a consequence of this when placing my purchases? and 2) Can I as consumer trust anything Intel says? The answer to both questions must ofcourse be a loud NO.


<< Again, this is not really a real criticism of Zephyr or anyone else, merely a plea for an end to this partisan bickering. How much longer with this go on? >>


I still find debating the issues a healty process of promoting the better product, I see nothing wrong with voicing an opinion.

EDIT: a couple (or more *hehe*) typos

 

[NOS440]

I see things are still cookin along well good I will be back on later today and we can have some more fun

 

[Z24]

wow

 

[skace]

I don't understand why this thread is still going... The whole argument is weak. I mean, when someone states 1 cpu is better than the other based on his own good/bad experiences and refuses evidence otherwise he is already doomed to criticism.

But without even arguing that, let me ask you all something... what the hell are you using these 1.4/1.5 ghz processors for? The reason I ask this is (NSO's original argument for the p4 was its &quot;smoothness&quot I am running an athelon 700@700, stock HSF, lame case, geforce 1 non-overclocked, only 1 fan for outtake. Guess what? everything runs smooth, suprise. By smooth I mean I never need to reboot unless I need to add something to my computer or go to a lan/etc and everything I run, runs flawlessy to my eyes (no stuttering in 3d/etc). Cpus are already ahead of most of the other computer parts so what is the point of bickering between them. The only real argument I see here is the fact that some people would prefer to waste more money than they actually need to waste (but those people have also stated money is no object). Personally I think people put too much blaim on the processor in game related cases, instead of the games. I've seen way too many games pushed out too fast that only support 1 specific graphics card and caused 324234 other problems with everything else.

But, back to the subject, I have jumped back and forth between many processors during the course of owning a computer and I have found 1 thing to hold true 99.99% of the time. This 1 thing is that almost all of my problems were either caused by myself or caused by the operating system. I have found very few problems that were actual flaws in the cpu that would lead me to sheer rage (everything has its minor flaws). Doing any research before buying (which most intelligent people do) will usually inform you of these problems. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Cpu's have platformed or are perfect in anyway, I am just saying arguing which one is better is a minor issue.

I guess this is the simplistic view, but I would rather see some REAL useful ram and hard drives come out instead of faster and faster cpu's. I don't consider RDRAM or DDRAM to be a big step in the right direction.. and I tire of how slow eide is catching up to scsi which is barely crawling along also.

FYI: Anyone who can't form readable sentences already loses most of my respect (NSO).

Cya,
Skace

 

[NOS440]

skace I'm glad your satisfied with your 700 mhz PC and think it runs smooth. But what your post proves to me is you haven't had any experience with the faster side of computers when I had a 300mhz I thought it was fast and smooth and a 400,500,600,700,800,900,1ghz and so on. You have no right saying the things you just said because you have no Experience with the latest technoligy.

Oh and one more thing


<< FYI: Anyone who can't form readable sentences already loses most of my respect (NSO). >>



If you can't form readable sentences then I LOOSE ALL RESPECT FOR YOU

 

[mechBgon]

Good, my daily entertainment thread is rolling again

NOS440, check your spelling. &quot;LOOSE&quot; means &quot;not tight.&quot; I think you meant &quot;LOSE&quot; as in &quot;cease to have.&quot;

 

[cpars]

Nos you must have a better crew than me, I have to leave every once in a while and go check to make sure they are awake and working. seems like you are always here. Oh almost forgot MY CPU IS BIGGER THAN YOURS

<><><><>

 

[skace]

Well Nos, I hope to speak for a multitude of people in this thread when I say, once again you've managed to take something and twist it out of context until it fits your needs. *ahem* I _never_ once said I hadn't used a machine faster than 700mhz. You cannot sit there and tell me that I don't know what I am missing, because I do, and its not even worth the time it would take me to unscrew my case and put in the new hardware, much less my money.

I won't even comment about you pointing out my single typo even though I was commenting on grammar, but ironically you mispelled a word anyways.

 

[Techie333]

I just bought an AMD CUP 1GHZ because AMD ROCKS

 

[dougjnn]

cpars --

I'm just giving you fair warning.

I mean I'll try to continue to control myself and all.:Q

--- but sometimes it's HARDdddd.

You look MIGHTY tasty to me!!!

You're not from, ahhh, the Chesapeake, now are you.

Never mind, it'd be better if you don't tell me!! Much better. Especially if you ARE.

 

[mechBgon]

dougjnn, and if you didn't notice, we now have snails too!

 

[cpars]

WTF????:|

 

[dougjnn]

Ahhhh, yes, l'escargot!!

 

[cpars]

Im outta here r>>->>>u>>->>>n>>>->>n>>>->>i>>->>>n>>>->>g

 

[NOS440]

skace So what your saying that just because you don't find the upgrade worth while no one should ??? I bet your still driving a car from the 50s too

 

[Zephyr]

I'd hardly say an athlon Classic 700 is obsolete just yet... guess it depends on what you use it for I suppose, but for most needs it should be quite sufficient

 

[NOS440]

Zephyr I never said that it was in anyway outdated. He was making it sound like because he doesn't see the need for speed that no one should.

 

[dougjnn]

Tom's today does a comparison of comparably priced OEM assembled Atlon 1.0ghz / P4 1.3ghz, and Athlon 1.2 / P4 1.5ghz systems today.

The Athlon systems are by Gateway and Micron, the P4's are both from Dell.

Guess who loses, big?

 

[NOS440]

that review is so bias and silly it gets the point across somewhat about OEM's trying to ride Intels Advertising blitz that is soon to start. But to compare a crippled P-4 with a sh!tty Video card to a Thunderbird with a GF2 Ultra is just plain stupid.

on a side note
Why is it that you can post the word ASS but not SH!T

Because ass isn't forbidden and sh*t is.

AnandTech Moderator

 

[dougjnn]

The point, of course, is that Dell CHOSE to cripple the system not only by skimping on the video card, but also the lack of burner (vs. Micron's good one), lack of NIC, and in the software bundle, to keep the P$ machine from looking as horrendously more expensive and price non-competitive as it really is.

 

[AdamK47]

Ooooooooo! The mods slammed NOS. Booyah!

 

[jsbush]

And 600, God you guys have WAY to much spare time!