Ossama Bin Laden was not armed.

[zinfamous]

The gentlemanly thing would have been for one of the SEALS to challenge him to a duel.

 

[cubby1223]

I suspect they're is more to this story. I really think they would have preferred to take him alive. I mean he would have been a great source of information. Those other high level guys gave up good intel it seems.

No. Much, much, much, much more unnecessary hassle if he were taken alive.

Where will he be detained? What conditions is he given? How many cable channels does he have access to watch? What lawyer is he getting? Where is his trial being held? Can we use evidence obtained from waterboarding in the trial? He deserves family visitation while imprisoned. And OMG the SEAL team didn't properly marandize him!!!!!!! Osama's wife was sexually discriminated during the raid...

No, it's better he is dead and over with. The longer time passes, the more the lunatics would begin sympathizing with Osama, the more parasitic lawyers would begin scheming profitable ideas from Osama.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

How would this be any different than launching a cruise missle at the compound, where could have easily been killed in his sleep?


Please don't get all bleeding-heart on me know just because a (D) is in power.


Our UAV Hellfires have probably killed people while they are screwing, eating, taking a shit, etc.

Yeah, I wonder what the reaction would be if the original plan (carpet bombing the compound with a pair of B-2s) would have been used instead.

"But...but.....Osama didn't have SAM launchers on his compound! He was DEFENSELESS!!!! Those were stealth bombers! SAMs wouldn't have even worked!!! No fair!!!"

 

[zinfamous]

Cover story.

You only need a cover story when you are faking something or hiding something or both. Special effects used to fool a family into thinking someone had been executed would take at least a few minutes to prepare, and they had to brief OBL on what to expect, if he wanted his family to leave there alive. That was the bargaining chip they had and used on him to get him to cooperate. They didn't want to release the pics of OBL because they looked fake and wouldn't hold up to detailed scrutiny, since the special effects were rushed, not because they were so gruesome. Of course, the real pics of the others killed were gruesome enough anyhow to try to convince other doubters just how gruesome they might be. Those other pics were released on purpose, as part of the cover story. That was no accident the beloved patriot's sold them to the press.

If you think there is any way they planned for months to take him alive, then executed him when they got him unarmed, then I really have nothing else to say about it to you. You're on your own in politically correct fantasy land.

And another thing, all this "he was reaching for his gun BS" is just that, because he had plenty of time to arm himself when he heard the copters flying into the compound and they were crashing on the way in, ect. Trust me, he would have been already armed and ready to defend himself, not just reaching for his gun when they FINALLY got into the upstairs room, where he was locked inside. Honestly, what a BS cover story.

Their orders were explicit. Take OBL ALIVE and fake the death, otherwise they would have bombed the hell out of the compound when they discovered he was in it months ago and not given him 7 months or more to escape.

I do hope you aren't serious.

with any of this. particularly the bolded. if you can't see why that is the dumbest possible option, then, well....damn.

 

[zinfamous]

It's how babby formed. You indiscriminate the female.

I always wondered how one wayinstains mother.

:thumbsup:

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I do hope you aren't serious.

with any of this. particularly the bolded. if you can't see why that is the dumbest possible option, then, well....damn.

Well in his defense, I did read that the original plan WAS to bomb the hell out of it using B-2s to evade Pakistan's radar. That plan was (wisely) abandoned.

 

[zinfamous]

lol. any fool trying to use this to make Obama look bad is one petty, pathetic, self-involved idiot.

kindly: go fuck yourselves.




(and as much as I hate Bush & Cheney Co, as any patriotic red-blooded American would, I would be saying the same damn thing were Bush involved in this operation.)

 

[zinfamous]

Well in his defense, I did read that the original plan WAS to bomb the hell out of it using B-2s to evade Pakistan's radar. That plan was (wisely) abandoned.

exactly. abandoned for the very reason that it leads to absolutely no verification.


People need to realize what would have happened if this op, INSIDE PAKISTAN, turned into another Black Hawk Down, or the Carter incident (forget what that one is called--in Iran). Imagine bin Laden escaping (and we still would never have known if he was there), US troops killed, captured by al Qaeda and/or Pakistani military.

Imagine the utter shitstorm of US military in a pakistani prison, with no verification that they were on the trail of bin Laden, two countries teetering on the brink of war in the view of the world.

There is simply no greater example of a shitstorm had this failed. This could very, very easily have been suicide for the US, and for Obama. He chose the most potentially damaging, most dangerous, and ultimately proper plan, and gave the go. I'm not saying it was his plan, of course, but only he could authorize this--knowing that only he would get shit if things failed. And yoiu do that as POTUS--all the blame with failure, mixed praise with success.

BALLS.

 

[Lemon law]

From what I understand, the US authorized the raid without any real evidence that Osama was in the house. The only real evidence was it was the frequent visiting point of Osama's personal courier.

But the place was monitored extensively since last August and finally Obama said we had enough evidence to act.

The other thing to say, is that animals as dumb as ground squirrels know enough to have alternate escape routes, so it looks like OBL was not very smart in the end.

 

[Throckmorton]

Fixed as the Bush krew would have painted it.


Seriously though, people are looking at this too hard to make Obama look bad. Simple fact is that Bin Ladin was justifiably taken down. If there is video of the entire encounter it will backup what the SEAL members are reporting. Supposedly Obama and his staff were watching the encounter as it unfolded live, wasn't this via video feed?

Apparently nobody watching the video knew what was happening because the story keeps changing.


I've lost all faith in Obama. How the FUCK do you botch the PR after killing OSAMA BIN LADEN?

I can't wait to see what the next story is and how bad it makes us look.

 

[zinfamous]

From what I understand, the US authorized the raid without any real evidence that Osama was in the house. The only real evidence was it was the frequent visiting point of Osama's personal courier.

But the place was monitored extensively since last August and finally Obama said we had enough evidence to act.

The other thing to say, is that animals as dumb as ground squirrels know enough to have alternate escape routes, so it looks like OBL was not very smart in the end.

yep. Panetta said exactly this the other day. Both surprising, and not surprising to me at the time.

Honestly, how could they know for sure without having someone inside the compound? You can't risk gathering intel from within the town, either, as I'd think any kind of suspicion would have botched everything.

Panetta said that while the evidence strongly pointed to a very High priority target, and, in their minds, quite likely bin Laden (make up of compound, grainy sat images of a subject resembling bin Laden waking around the compound, frequented by his most trusted couriers), they had no irrefutable confirmation of who was in that compound until the SEALs would arrive, and place his face right in their crosshairs.

Their orders, as he stated, were to investigate swiftly, grab Osama if he's there, gtfo swiftly if he isn't. And, he did say grab alive; authorize to kill if he resits. I believe that is BS. Most here understand, I think, that this was a kill mission.

 

[zinfamous]

Apparently nobody watching the video knew what was happening because the story keeps changing.


I've lost all faith in Obama. How the FUCK do you botch the PR after killing OSAMA BIN LADEN?

I can't wait to see what the next story is and how bad it makes us look.

what video? There was no video during the raid. all intel was black during the first 20 minutes. t least, this is the most consistent account from everyone involved.

Obama has botched nothing. you are a petty fool.


let me repeat: THE VIDEO WAS BLACK DURING THE ASSAULT. No one has told a conflicting story regarding that particular issue. Much of the conflicting info came out prior to the SEAL debriefing. And you have all sorts of info streams coming from various sources within various levels of the admin, the CIA, and those in Afghanistan (I think). Remember that much of the CIA was involved in this mission in VA; while the Pres team was at the White House.

I can't figure out if you guys are just stupid enough to assume that instant news through 3 or 4 levels of filtering should be taken as rote truth as it happens, or you simply want to create a ridiculous image of the event that jibes closer to your own petty biases.

 

[Throckmorton]

what video? There was no video during the raid. all intel was black during the first 20 minutes. t least, this is the most consistent account from everyone involved.

Obama has botched nothing. you are a petty fool.


let me repeat: THE VIDEO WAS BLACK DURING THE ASSAULT. No one has told a conflicting story regarding that particular issue. Much of the conflicting info came out prior to the SEAL debriefing. And you have all sorts of info streams coming from various sources within various levels of the admin, the CIA, and those in Afghanistan (I think). Remember that much of the CIA was involved in this mission in VA; while the Pres team was at the White House.

I can't figure out if you guys are just stupid enough to assume that instant news through 3 or 4 levels of filtering should be taken as rote truth as it happens, or you simply want to create a ridiculous image of the event that jibes closer to your own petty biases.

You idiot, I'm an Obama supporter. He botched this plain and simple. He told one story, then another, then let Panetta give yet another. The admin admitted that a SEAL shot OBL even though he was unarmed.

I hope when that SEAL goes on trial in an international court, Obama personally serves as his defense attorney.

Haven't you seen the picture of Obama and his staff watching the god damn video?

 

[davmat787]

Yeah, I wonder what the reaction would be if the original plan (carpet bombing the compound with a pair of B-2s) would have been used instead.

In the interest of splitting hairs, I don't think the original plan was to "carpet bomb" the compound as it would have resulted in tremendous collateral damage and civilian deaths. My understanding is the B-2 plan would have involved several 1000 pound laser guided bombs. Even that would have resulted in some collateral damage, and possible unintended deaths.

When I hear the term carpet bombing, I think of B-52's dropping 100's of unguided dumb bombs. *shrug*

 

[IndyColtsFan]

In the interest of splitting hairs, I don't think the original plan was to "carpet bomb" the compound as it would have resulted in tremendous collateral damage and civilian deaths. My understanding is the B-2 plan would have involved several 1000 pound laser guided bombs. Even that would have resulted in some collateral damage, and possible unintended deaths.

When I hear the term carpet bombing, I think of B-52's dropping 100's of unguided dumb bombs. *shrug*

Yeah, you're splitting hairs, but you're technically correct. I should have just said "bombed the crap out of" instead.

 

[Craig234]

How would this be any different than launching a cruise missle at the compound, where could have easily been killed in his sleep?

Wow, what idiocy.

Say there's a WWII gunfight between US and Nazi ground troops.

The US troops call in airstrikes, killing some of the Nazi troops.

Then a group of Nazi troops holds up a white flag, and walks out with their hands in the air, towards the US troops.

The US troops then shoot them, unarmed, in cold blood. No difference.

 

[Throckmorton]

How does an administration full of lawyers so readily admit responsibility for killing unarmed people?

 

[Craig234]

You idiot, I'm an Obama supporter. He botched this plain and simple. He told one story, then another, then let Panetta give yet another. The admin admitted that a SEAL shot OBL even though he was unarmed.

I hope when that SEAL goes on trial in an international court, Obama personally serves as his defense attorney.

Haven't you seen the picture of Obama and his staff watching the god damn video?

There's no reason it isn't possible the video wasn't black for part of the assault - perhaps the first phase when bin Laden was killed - and active after, when the photo was shot.

I'd say it's also possible they were watching the video of someone telling them an update or other info, except the reaction by Hillary suggests it was probably more dramatic.

 

[OCGuy]

Wow, what idiocy.

Say there's a WWII gunfight between US and Nazi ground troops.

The US troops call in airstrikes, killing some of the Nazi troops.

Then a group of Nazi troops holds up a white flag, and walks out with their hands in the air, towards the US troops.

The US troops then shoot them, unarmed, in cold blood. No difference.

What practical difference is there?

At least the SEAL knew his target, and the risk for collateral damage was very small.

Bombs/missles are indiscriminate, and dont care if you are holding up a white flag, or if you are holding your dick in the bathroom.


But your analogy is false, because I don't believe Jihadis fall under any international law. They are not associated with any country, they do not wear uniforms, and they sure as hell don't follow any international law themselves.

Don't agree? Then tell my why our (D) president can kill them at will, via predator, commandos, etc.

 

[Craig234]

How does an administration full of lawyers so readily admit responsibility for killing unarmed people?

A sense of immunity from any oversight from any authority, combined with knowing most of the public won't mind, combined with preferring to just tell the truth, combined with knowing that witnesses will contradict another version (which they did seem to offer up initially, including a '40 minute gunfight' that was not too believable)?

 

[hal2kilo]

lol. Obama is bad at this.

Bush and his krew would paint it as some kind of epic battle where Bin Laden shoots at the US troops then he jumps at one with a knife and it has some kind of struggle or something then the heroic marine (who is now alone btw) kicks Bin Laden away, runs to his gun, and shoots Bin Laden in the head.

And there would be a forest of American Flags behind him.

 

[ShawnD1]

But your analogy is false, because I don't believe Jihadis fall under any international law. They are not associated with any country, they do not wear uniforms, and they sure as hell don't follow any international law themselves.

So the only time you would take prisoners is if someone forced you to?

Killing him could easily be a mistake. You just shot a bunch of guys who were armed, you're a bit on edge, you see some guy, you instinctively shoot him.

 

[zinfamous]

You idiot, I'm an Obama supporter. He botched this plain and simple. He told one story, then another, then let Panetta give yet another. The admin admitted that a SEAL shot OBL even though he was unarmed.

I hope when that SEAL goes on trial in an international court, Obama personally serves as his defense attorney.

Haven't you seen the picture of Obama and his staff watching the god damn video?

I saw them staring intently at something that was out of frame.

What did you see?

The story has always been that comm went down during the first ~20 minutes of the raid, which was the fire fight. All of the intel getting to them was via the in-country commander of the operation.

 

[Craig234]

What practical difference is there?

At least the SEAL knew his target, and the risk for collateral damage was very small.

Bombs/missles are indiscriminate, and dont care if you are holding up a white flag, or if you are holding your dick in the bathroom.


But your analogy is false, because I don't believe Jihadis fall under any international law. They are not associated with any country, they do not wear uniforms, and they sure as hell don't follow any international law themselves.

Don't agree? Then tell my why our (D) president can kill them at will, via predator, commandos, etc.

So, your whole basis for saying that a bombing operation and shooting an unarmed person in cold blood are the same thing, is the legal definitions of troop vs. Jihadi?

I don't think that covers the shooting of an unarmed person in cold blood as a moral and possibly legal issue, though there are some differences in their rights.

But change my analogy, then, to a few Jihadists deciding to leave terrorism, and walking to a US base, hands in the air, unarmed, to surrender, and instead of just being ordered to stop while being searched and then taken into custody, they're just shot in cold blood.

 

[Uhtrinity]

How does an administration full of lawyers so readily admit responsibility for killing unarmed people?

Based on Osama's history of being slippery and for the number of deaths he was responsible for this shouldn't even be an issue in the minds of most Americans regardless of political leaning.