Orange stain second term results thread

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nakedfrog

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
62,208
18,043
136
Brovane said:
You are the one that said that we wouldn't be talking about illegal immigration today if walls worked.

Securing the border with physical walls is just one part of a solution for illegal immigration. Along with reforms to the immigration system. Have we implemented reforms to the immigration system? No, so we still have a problem with illegal immigration because politicians would rather not solve the problem. Clear example of that is when Trump deliberately scuttled attempts last year to reform the system.

The question that I have, do you think the US should have no physical border wall/Fences/Barriers at all along the US border?
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Why no mention of harsher punishments for those found employing undocumented workers?
 
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VashHT

VashHT

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2007
3,330
1,390
136
Brainonska511 said:
There are probably a literal handful of people that have argued for absolutely no wall. It's effectively a straw man argument. I don't think anyone has an issue with a fencing of some kind where you also have border checkpoints and whatnot on both sides of the border.

A border wall stretching through uninhabited desert is a huge waste of money and resources and is horribly damaging to migratory species and the environment (like when they rip up saguoro that are 100+ years old [they only tend to get their first "arm" around 75-100 years of age]). It's also especially stupid when most people are coming through legal crossings.

It wouldn't be such an issue if we didn't have a horribly broken-by-Republicans immigration system that requires people fill out huge amounts of paperwork and wait years for resolutions. We should be making it easier for people to immigrate here - both those that want to stay after being educated here, and those that simply want to make a better life for themselves. I welcome people that have the want to enrich my country culturally and economically, and I also think it's a moral imperative that we try and help those fleeing economic, social, and political persecution.
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It's like the people who claim Biden supported open borders and was waving illegal immigrants into the country, the borders were definitely not "wide open" and I've never heard anyone support open borders, but right wing morons claim all liberals support it.
 
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nakedfrog

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
62,208
18,043
136
VashHT said:
It's like the people who claim Biden supported open borders and was waving illegal immigrants into the country, the borders were definitely not "wide open" and I've never heard anyone support open borders, but right wing morons claim all liberals support it.
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It's mostly the far leftists who support it, the ones that take being referred to as a liberal as an insult.
 
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Y

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
6,788
1,825
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JD50

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,899
2,804
136
VashHT said:
It's like the people who claim Biden supported open borders and was waving illegal immigrants into the country, the borders were definitely not "wide open" and I've never heard anyone support open borders, but right wing morons claim all liberals support it.
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"The borders were wide open, here's pictures of people being detained by border patrol agents at check points on the border to prove it" - conservatives
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,756
54,775
136
brycejones said:
Weird how conservatives hate due process for immigrants.
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And remember, Democrats and Senate Republicans came up with a bill to address exactly this issue, giving greater enforcement funding as well as additional resources to process claims quickly and then Republicans in the House torpedoed it and refused to allow it up for a vote out of fears it would pass.

It's been their MO for years to complain about immigration and then actively thwart any attempt to address immigration. It's because they like it as a campaign issue more than they like fixing problems.
 
G

gothuevos

Diamond Member
Jul 28, 2010
3,361
2,373
136
fskimospy said:
And remember, Democrats and Senate Republicans came up with a bill to address exactly this issue, giving greater enforcement funding as well as additional resources to process claims quickly and then Republicans in the House torpedoed it and refused to allow it up for a vote out of fears it would pass.

It's been their MO for years to complain about immigration and then actively thwart any attempt to address immigration. It's because they like it as a campaign issue more than they like fixing problems.
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Waited too long.
 
P

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
15,053
9,932
136
Brovane said:
But all the more power to you if you think you know more than the Finland, Poland and Latvia governments and how to control their borders.
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There's an element of hypocrisy with regard to Poland especially - given the mass exodus of Poles to the rest of the EU (and, in large numbers, pre-Brexit, to the UK). They pretty much solved their unemployment problem and hugely boosted their economy by such measures, yet aren't very happy about anyone entering Poland (to be fair, that doesn't seem to apply in the case of white Ukrainians - despite the history of Polish/Ukrainian conflict, I guess a kind of solidarity against Russia kicks in - but anyone from outside Europe gets treated very differently)
 
Muse

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,527
10,007
136
Robert Reich. Can't remember thinking he was wrong. Posts seemingly daily. This from today:

robertreich.substack.com

Vote of No Confidence in Our Current Federal Government

You may want to add your name
robertreich.substack.com robertreich.substack.com

Friends,

Here’s a document I’ve just signed. You may want to add your name, and share. [You can do that at the link]

***

We, the People of the United States, declare a vote of no confidence in our current federal government.

We do so out of love for our country and our liberties and to defend our democracy from an autocratic regime that aims to destroy it. Our goal is to help speed the winds of democratic change.

Exercising our constitutional right to peaceful protest, we offer this petition as an online march on Washington.

DECLARATION OF GRIEVANCES

The President of the United States:

• Has shredded the Rule of Law and violated his solemn oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States;

• Has attacked First Amendment freedoms of speech, press, and assembly by intimidating those who oppose him;

• Has misused the military and federal law enforcement to create a climate of fear;

• Has abused his power by pardoning those who attacked the Capitol on January 6, 2021 and by dangling future pardons to encourage criminal conduct on his behalf;

• Has violated the principle of no taxation without representation by imposing tariffs through executive orders alone and by threatening tariffs to advance his personal agenda;

• Has violated the constitutional principles of due process and the equal protection of the laws by using masked agents to kidnap law-abiding refugees for expedited deportation without judicial hearings and by detaining them in unspeakable conditions;

• Has fueled racism and white supremacy by scapegoating communities of color;

• Has endangered lives and our planet by disregarding science;

• Has sought to manipulate the results of the midterm elections by using the FBI and the Department of Justice to facilitate gerrymandering by States his party controls;

• Has violated the Constitution by soliciting and accepting bribes;

• Has undermined the judiciary by attacking judges who rule against him and by failing to comply with court orders; and

• Has denied justice to those he disfavors by exercising unwarranted control over the Department of Justice.

The abuse-enabling members of the Congress of the United States:

• Have abdicated their constitutional duty to be check on presidential excesses;

• Have gutted essential federal functions by accepting budget cuts Congress has not approved, rescinding monies appropriated for public services, and permitting the demolition of agencies and departments established by law;

• Have willfully ignored challenges in healthcare, education, employment, housing, climate change, public safety, campaign finance and the preservation of democracy;

• Have reinforced income inequality by enacting legislation that redistributes wealth from the poor to the rich; and

• In the case of the United States Senate, have repeatedly confirmed unfit presidential nominees.

A majority of the Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States:

• Has placed the President and his acolytes above the law;

• Has evaded ethical accountability by tolerating conflicts of interest by its justices

• Has demonstrated subservience to the President by using the so-called shadow docket to overturn without explanation well-reasoned lower court orders; and

• Has squandered centuries of respect for the Court by rendering decisions that undermine legislation protecting civil and voting rights and other laws enacted by Congress.

NOW THEREFORE, we, the citizens of the United States of America at least 18 years of age, cast a Vote of No Confidence in the current federal government of the United States. We call for the redress of the grievances declared here and oppose the current regime’s assault on the rule of law, just as the signers of the Declaration of Independence rejected the tyranny of “The Mad King,” George III.
 
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