Opinons on Ford and its future

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Hacp
What ford needs to do is have the Government help get rid of the pesky union contracts as well as pension obligations. Once wages dip down to 10-12 dollars an hour, Ford will instantly become competitive.

LOL. I was making $10/hour as a Best Buy tech back when I was in college. Most of us came in in the morning hungover as all hell and were rude to the customers. Pay $10/hour and that's what you'll get... a bunch of drunken bums doing crummy work to pay their bar tab.

You have to pay a little more if you want people who give two shits.

I worked for a company that had a unionized warehouse. I worked in the IS department doing support. They drove jacks around and moved boxes. I made $11/hr. They started at $15.50/hr and got a 50 cent raise every six months. I cannot even guess how much the senior, twenty-year guys made.

Anyway, they consistently goofed off, slacked off, missed their quotas, etc. They would all lean on their jacks back by the trucks for hours. They would line up at the punch clock a half an hour before every break and before leaving. The company had to implement a computer tracking system to ensure that they actually did work.

I also went to school with a bunch of guys who were from a unionized steel plant that closed. They got paid like $70k/yr. They always bragged about how they had a sleeping room, where a guy would sleep the entire shift, and how they would half-ass making their welds so they could go on break sooner.

You saying that paying people more ALWAYS makes them care about their job more is laughable. What utter nonsense. There's a reason all of our manufacturing is going overseas.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Phokus
If everyone doesn't consider buying a GM because it's 'government owned', then i hope you don't mind it being government owned indefinitely. This is a temporary stopgap measure. Trust me, Obama wants to unload GM asap.

I think you're full of 'bull', not intentionally - but full of it never-the-less.

For one, you have nothing other than guesses about what Obama wants. I think my guess is as good as your's - and I'm guessing he wants to do MORE than just get rid of it ASAP.

If you thought about it for more than a nonsecond, you'd realize your pronouncement here is a huge insult to Obama - so he 'took it on' to just rid of it'? Hahaha, he doesn't have an 'exit strategy' so far as any reasonable person can see and so he took it on to just rid of it?. If he took it on to just dump billions into without a plan he'd a enormous fool, even with a 'plan' he may turn out to look like one anyway.

No, to dump this kind of money money into GM he damn well better have plan other than just 'getting rid of it asap'. And, really, no matter what he wants the Dems in Congress control the 'show', and they want more than just to dump it 'asap'.

Fern

Obviously he wants it to fix it up before he gets rid of it, that was implied, but only someone dishonest thinks Obama wants to keep GM :roll:

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Hacp
What ford needs to do is have the Government help get rid of the pesky union contracts as well as pension obligations. Once wages dip down to 10-12 dollars an hour, Ford will instantly become competitive.

LOL. I was making $10/hour as a Best Buy tech back when I was in college. Most of us came in in the morning hungover as all hell and were rude to the customers. Pay $10/hour and that's what you'll get... a bunch of drunken bums doing crummy work to pay their bar tab.

You have to pay a little more if you want people who give two shits.

You saying that paying people more ALWAYS makes them care about their job more is laughable. What utter nonsense. There's a reason all of our manufacturing is going overseas.

I didn't say that more money was a guarantee of good work. I said that less money was a guarantee of poor work.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Hacp
What ford needs to do is have the Government help get rid of the pesky union contracts as well as pension obligations. Once wages dip down to 10-12 dollars an hour, Ford will instantly become competitive.

LOL. I was making $10/hour as a Best Buy tech back when I was in college. Most of us came in in the morning hungover as all hell and were rude to the customers. Pay $10/hour and that's what you'll get... a bunch of drunken bums doing crummy work to pay their bar tab.

You have to pay a little more if you want people who give two shits.

You saying that paying people more ALWAYS makes them care about their job more is laughable. What utter nonsense. There's a reason all of our manufacturing is going overseas.

I didn't say that more money was a guarantee of good work. I said that less money was a guarantee of poor work.

The Chinese workers who work their butts off for pennies a day kind of debunk your theory. So do the union workers who sleep all day and make $70k/yr.

 

[GTaudiophile]

I was in the UK two weeks ago and saw A TON of Fords...each and every one of them cooler than the Fords we get here in the USA.

As was reported today, Ford is already makin inroads against the competition as of late.

So, what do I think?

Ford + NOBAMA + No GOVT $$$ + No GOVT Involvement + Bring some EU cars to the USA = FTW

Meanwhile, GOVT/UAW controlled GM will die a long, expensive death.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Hacp
What ford needs to do is have the Government help get rid of the pesky union contracts as well as pension obligations. Once wages dip down to 10-12 dollars an hour, Ford will instantly become competitive.

LOL. I was making $10/hour as a Best Buy tech back when I was in college. Most of us came in in the morning hungover as all hell and were rude to the customers. Pay $10/hour and that's what you'll get... a bunch of drunken bums doing crummy work to pay their bar tab.

You have to pay a little more if you want people who give two shits.

You saying that paying people more ALWAYS makes them care about their job more is laughable. What utter nonsense. There's a reason all of our manufacturing is going overseas.

I didn't say that more money was a guarantee of good work. I said that less money was a guarantee of poor work.

The Chinese workers who work their butts off for pennies a day kind of debunk your theory. So do the union workers who sleep all day and make $70k/yr.

Cost of living? Cultural differences? The original post was to pay Ford's American workers less.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Hacp
What ford needs to do is have the Government help get rid of the pesky union contracts as well as pension obligations. Once wages dip down to 10-12 dollars an hour, Ford will instantly become competitive.

LOL. I was making $10/hour as a Best Buy tech back when I was in college. Most of us came in in the morning hungover as all hell and were rude to the customers. Pay $10/hour and that's what you'll get... a bunch of drunken bums doing crummy work to pay their bar tab.

You have to pay a little more if you want people who give two shits.

Not really, you have to pay what the job is worth. If people like you won't do them then those jobs will go elsewhere.

I really don't know what a typical Ford factory job is worth, just saying...

I'd argue the jobs are paid what they're worth, but it's the benefits (primarily the pensions of retired employees) that go over the barrel. If the government wanted to save the American car companies, they should have taken over the pensions from them. Also, they needed to get rid of union protections on the jobs, so they could fire/lower salaries when times were tough or the company under-performed.

 

[Xellos2099]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Hacp
What ford needs to do is have the Government help get rid of the pesky union contracts as well as pension obligations. Once wages dip down to 10-12 dollars an hour, Ford will instantly become competitive.

LOL. I was making $10/hour as a Best Buy tech back when I was in college. Most of us came in in the morning hungover as all hell and were rude to the customers. Pay $10/hour and that's what you'll get... a bunch of drunken bums doing crummy work to pay their bar tab.

You have to pay a little more if you want people who give two shits.

Not really, you have to pay what the job is worth. If people like you won't do them then those jobs will go elsewhere.

I really don't know what a typical Ford factory job is worth, just saying...

I'd argue the jobs are paid what they're worth, but it's the benefits (primarily the pensions of retired employees) that go over the barrel. If the government wanted to save the American car companies, they should have taken over the pensions from them. Also, they needed to get rid of union protections on the jobs, so they could fire/lower salaries when times were tough or the company under-performed.

Yes, they are excellent choice but Obama will never do that as that would anger union and cost him valuable union vote. Obama is not trying to save GM or Chrysler, he wanted the union's support.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Hacp
What ford needs to do is have the Government help get rid of the pesky union contracts as well as pension obligations. Once wages dip down to 10-12 dollars an hour, Ford will instantly become competitive.

LOL. I was making $10/hour as a Best Buy tech back when I was in college. Most of us came in in the morning hungover as all hell and were rude to the customers. Pay $10/hour and that's what you'll get... a bunch of drunken bums doing crummy work to pay their bar tab.

You have to pay a little more if you want people who give two shits.

Not really, you have to pay what the job is worth. If people like you won't do them then those jobs will go elsewhere.

I really don't know what a typical Ford factory job is worth, just saying...

I'd argue the jobs are paid what they're worth, but it's the benefits (primarily the pensions of retired employees) that go over the barrel. If the government wanted to save the American car companies, they should have taken over the pensions from them. Also, they needed to get rid of union protections on the jobs, so they could fire/lower salaries when times were tough or the company under-performed.

Last I heard, getting fired at GM meant getting asked to "please leave" with massive buyout incentives in hand, which is a whole different world than most Americans live in. Employees that have been there less than a year are getting somewhere in the range of $25K cash and a $25K car voucher to leave. This from a company that is BANKRUPT. Does no one see a problem with that?? Those incentives are our tax dollars. They laid off a bunch of people at my company a few weeks ago. Where the fuck are their 50K taxpayer funded buyouts, in addition to unemployment?? In short, the UAW needs to be dismantled, and the entire culture around it dismantled. The wages and benefits unions try to extract from their companies' are incompatible in this global economy. They cannot co-exist in a global economy where foreigners will work for pennies a day. That is undisputable FACT.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

i think that if US taxpayers wanted to own Ford, GM or any other company they would have done so by buying stock.

 

[Vic]

Ford is looking good.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: Phokus
If everyone doesn't consider buying a GM because it's 'government owned', then i hope you don't mind it being government owned indefinitely. This is a temporary stopgap measure. Trust me, Obama wants to unload GM asap.

LOL, why should we trust you?

Obama himself said it was temporary.

He Lies! he's a politician. Crap giving the UAW part of the company was a huge kickback for getting him elected. Anyone denying that is being dishonest. Chicago politics is all about the kickbacks!

Temporary my ass He likes being in charge. His buddies the Sierra Club and other environmentalists will dictate policy will make tin cans and call them Yugos and they will subsidize the shit out of them actually making them attractive to purchase until they realize the quality is crap and they dump it for a real car made by someone who makes cars and not rjust someone who runs campaigns.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: Phokus
If everyone doesn't consider buying a GM because it's 'government owned', then i hope you don't mind it being government owned indefinitely. This is a temporary stopgap measure. Trust me, Obama wants to unload GM asap.

LOL, why should we trust you?

Obama himself said it was temporary.

Read up on the history of Amtrak then come back and say you still believe the ownership of GM will be temporary.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: Phokus
If everyone doesn't consider buying a GM because it's 'government owned', then i hope you don't mind it being government owned indefinitely. This is a temporary stopgap measure. Trust me, Obama wants to unload GM asap.

LOL, why should we trust you?

Obama himself said it was temporary.

Read up on the history of Amtrak then come back and say you still believe the ownership of GM will be temporary.

Totally different situation. The Rail(specifically Passenger Rail) was a dying Industry. The Automotive Industry will continue on for quite some time.

 

[smack Down]

Ford will be bankrupt by 2010. Toyota will be shortly after Ford. Just like with the airlines you will have rolling bankruptcy for a while.

 

[charrison]

THere are few scenerios for ford. Ford has a very good product line and is well positioned for recovery.

1. Ford does well and gains market share and is unaffected by gm/Chrysler bankruptcy.
2. Ford is unable to compete with slimmed down and debt free GM/Chrysler and goes bankrupt itself.
3. Ford does well and gains market share, which hurts GM/Chrysler more. Government keeps changing rules to help GM/Chrysler and eventually drags Ford down too.

 

[PottedMeat]

I think Ford is doing very well in the US and in Europe. They've stayed wisely out of the spotlight while GM and Chrysler soak up the bad press at the same time advertising their products. They should get together with VW and Mercedes and lobby to bring all those nice diesel vehicles over. GM is supposedly doing well in China ( where Ford has little to no presence ), what does that mean for the Govt's stake in the company - do profits in China -> US taxpayers? I have no idea where Toyota is going.

 

[Genx87]

It depends how long and how much time the govt wants to play with GM and Chrysler. FORD is in an odd position of having to compete against the govt. The same govt that writes regulation and pushes an agenda based on who is in power. The same govt that is willing to plow as much tax payers money into the corp to make it work. Time will tell how good of a position FORD holds.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Genx87
It depends how long and how much time the govt wants to play with GM and Chrysler. FORD is in an odd position of having to compete against the govt. The same govt that writes regulation and pushes an agenda based on who is in power. The same govt that is willing to plow as much tax payers money into the corp to make it work. Time will tell how good of a position FORD holds.

exactly. it depends on how badly the government wants to control all of the automakers. Right now i wouldn't trust the government at all.

Ford is in the best position (well if it was a level playing field..and we know it is not) to succeed

 

[Pulsar]

Ford is already starting to have difficulty competing against GM and Chrysler. How, you might ask?

Well, one way is that GMAC, (owned by Cerberus and now the gov. as well) has been designated a 'bank'. That means they can get loans from the gov. around prime. Which means they get charged 2-3% interest right now, while Ford Finance is getting nailed with 7-9%.

Another way: You now have the UAW invested in both GM and Chrysler. How, exactly is Ford going to manage to get a fair Union bargain in the next negotiations when the UAW has a vested interest in GM and Chrysler beating Ford?

HOWEVER, Ford is doing fine. We have more powertrain launches in the next year than every before. Our new small engines (boosted and turboed) kick absolute ass - 350+ horsepower at 25+ mpg... yeah we can do that. On non-premium fuel.

Our cars are looking better than ever. The new Taurus in 2010 is totally kick-ass and looks it (finally). The other new vehicles, like the hybrids and the new Fusion Plug-In in 2011 with a 100 mile range is going to rock too.

We're doing better. Thank god for Bill Ford, Alan Mulally, and Mark Fields. Thank Bill for knowing he was in over his head and getting Mark and Alan. Thank Mark and Alan for seeming knowing how to place product ahead of quanity.

 

[ElFenix]

ford's FLM market share is the highest in 3 years right now, ford may have beaten toyota for the second straight month, and ford canada posted it's 7th straight month of market share growth

 

[sactoking]

Ford is in a pretty good position to compete, but every Ford product I've ever driven has been a steaming pile of garbage, so it looks like I'll be a Toyota guy for a while.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: sactoking
Ford is in a pretty good position to compete, but every Ford product I've ever driven has been a steaming pile of garbage, so it looks like I'll be a Toyota guy for a while.

You need to try driving some of their newer offerings or their vehicles in Europe. They have the ability to make great vehicles and they have the management now who is pushing for better products and better globalization of those products.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: Pulsar
Ford is already starting to have difficulty competing against GM and Chrysler. How, you might ask?

Well, one way is that GMAC, (owned by Cerberus and now the gov. as well) has been designated a 'bank'. That means they can get loans from the gov. around prime. Which means they get charged 2-3% interest right now, while Ford Finance is getting nailed with 7-9%.

Another way: You now have the UAW invested in both GM and Chrysler. How, exactly is Ford going to manage to get a fair Union bargain in the next negotiations when the UAW has a vested interest in GM and Chrysler beating Ford?

HOWEVER, Ford is doing fine. We have more powertrain launches in the next year than every before. Our new small engines (boosted and turboed) kick absolute ass - 350+ horsepower at 25+ mpg... yeah we can do that. On non-premium fuel.

Our cars are looking better than ever. The new Taurus in 2010 is totally kick-ass and looks it (finally). The other new vehicles, like the hybrids and the new Fusion Plug-In in 2011 with a 100 mile range is going to rock too.

We're doing better. Thank god for Bill Ford, Alan Mulally, and Mark Fields. Thank Bill for knowing he was in over his head and getting Mark and Alan. Thank Mark and Alan for seeming knowing how to place product ahead of quanity.

Some interesting perspective. What do you do for Ford Pulsar?

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I was in the UK two weeks ago and saw A TON of Fords...each and every one of them cooler than the Fords we get here in the USA.

As was reported today, Ford is already makin inroads against the competition as of late.

So, what do I think?

Ford + NOBAMA + No GOVT $$$ + No GOVT Involvement + Bring some EU cars to the USA = FTW

Meanwhile, GOVT/UAW controlled GM will die a long, expensive death.

The fords over in Europe do kick a lot of ass. I particularly wish the new Focus RS was coming this way...but I'd settle for a Focus ST. We are still stuck with a Focus based on the original platform which is decent for the money...but ugly and in need of an upgrade.

The Ford Ranger has a platform that is like 30 years old...but in Thailand you can get a fantastic Ranger.

The good thing is that Mulally see's the benefit of improving globalization of their product line...so hopefully we will see more of the foreign Ford products on this side of the ocean. The Fiesta is coming soon...although I really hope they give the option of the hatchback and not only that ugly sedan prototype that I've seen pics of.