Opinion on the teacher strikes?

[Mai72]

BBC video on Oklahoma teachers who are pretty much treated like dirt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQyW5X7IGIQ

 

[Sunburn74]

Oklahoma teachers caved. Totally caved. They had all the leverage and could only sit out 9 days. Heck they sit out months during summer break. Even more so they could always just move to states with much better pay rates like tx right across the border or Massachusetts where they'd made 2.5-3x as much on average. The point of a walkout is to hold people's feet to the fire.

 

[SNC]

Oklahoma teachers caved. Totally caved. They had all the leverage and could only sit out 9 days. Heck they sit out months during summer break. Even more so they could always just move to states with much better pay rates like tx right across the border or Massachusetts where they'd made 2.5-3x as much on average. The point of a walkout is to hold people's feet to the fire.

Whos feet? The school board, the elected officials or the people who are forced not only to pay the increased taxes to pay for the demands of the teachers but also to foot the bill for child coverage during the strike. What about the people who can't afford to pay for someone to watch their kid, and loses their job to stay home when the kiss are home, or worse lose their kids because losing their job is not an option and created a batch of latch key kids. Public servants should not be permitted to strike, the people using their services are forced to and have no other options. What conditions changes so much that an increase in wages is so important that they are willing to force a parent into a position of either leaving their kid alone or quitting\losing their job? Public servant jobs should be tied to the median income in the area they serve. Its not like anyone can go to their boss and say that because of the actions of the teachers and the increase of school taxes I need you to pay me more money to cover the increase. Its not like the person paying the bill can decide to reduce the level of service like they can with the internet or cable tv.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Oklahoma teachers caved. Totally caved. They had all the leverage and could only sit out 9 days. Heck they sit out months during summer break. Even more so they could always just move to states with much better pay rates like tx right across the border or Massachusetts where they'd made 2.5-3x as much on average. The point of a walkout is to hold people's feet to the fire.

But MA is full of libtards, so the OKer's can stay out

 

[fskimospy]

Whos feet? The school board, the elected officials or the people who are forced not only to pay the increased taxes to pay for the demands of the teachers but also to foot the bill for child coverage during the strike. What about the people who can't afford to pay for someone to watch their kid, and loses their job to stay home when the kiss are home, or worse lose their kids because losing their job is not an option and created a batch of latch key kids.

That sounds like a failure of leadership from those in charge. I know if I managed a group so poorly that they all walked out to protest it I would be held accountable. Sounds like the conservatives who decided cutting taxes for rich people was more important than compensating their employees reasonably should be held accountable, wouldn’t you agree?

Public servants should not be permitted to strike, the people using their services are forced to and have no other options. What conditions changes so much that an increase in wages is so important that they are willing to force a parent into a position of either leaving their kid alone or quitting\losing their job? Public servant jobs should be tied to the median income in the area they serve. Its not like anyone can go to their boss and say that because of the actions of the teachers and the increase of school taxes I need you to pay me more money to cover the increase. Its not like the person paying the bill can decide to reduce the level of service like they can with the internet or cable tv.

Of course they should be able to strike and the state should be free to replace them. If the state believes it can find teachers of similar quality for the same or lower wages they should do so. I suspect they can’t.

 

[thraashman]

Public servant jobs should be tied to the median income in the area they serve.

You realize that just means that most public servants would simply not work in low income areas and those areas would struggle to find teachers. Which would in turn cause those students to receive a poor education that would perpetuate a cycle of poverty.

 

[Zorba]

Whos feet? The school board, the elected officials or the people who are forced not only to pay the increased taxes to pay for the demands of the teachers but also to foot the bill for child coverage during the strike. What about the people who can't afford to pay for someone to watch their kid, and loses their job to stay home when the kiss are home, or worse lose their kids because losing their job is not an option and created a batch of latch key kids. Public servants should not be permitted to strike, the people using their services are forced to and have no other options. What conditions changes so much that an increase in wages is so important that they are willing to force a parent into a position of either leaving their kid alone or quitting\losing their job? Public servant jobs should be tied to the median income in the area they serve. Its not like anyone can go to their boss and say that because of the actions of the teachers and the increase of school taxes I need you to pay me more money to cover the increase. Its not like the person paying the bill can decide to reduce the level of service like they can with the internet or cable tv.

You obviously have no facts on the case in Oklahoma. First, the school boards almost all approved the walkout, making it a walkout not a strike. Second, Teacher pay in Oklahoma is terrible and has been for a very long time.

What finally pushed them over the edge was after being promised to have additional funding for years, every year over the last four education has taken MASSIVE cuts in funding. The current education funding in Oklahoma is lower in real dollars than it was 15 years ago. The funding situation is so bad that a quarter of the schools in the state only hold classes 4 days a week. The walkout started on the day the legislator by law had to fully fund school, which they didn't do.

Oklahoma has continued to push unfunded tax cuts year after year. Almost all of those tax cuts have been in the form of tax credits and exemptions to well off people. The capital gains exemption (no capital gains tax on Oklahoma businesses) alone costs the state $115M/yr and 89% of it goes to the top 1% of income earners. They have also made DOT funding the highest budget priority so it gets funding before education, health, etc, but they hadn't raised the gas tax since the 80s and it was the lowest in the country (they finally raised it by 3 whole cents). It also doesn't help that during this time the republican administration has authorized the creation of tons of new school districts so every tiny town has its own system (over 550 in the state).

The OKC school district has been averaging an annual turnover rate of 25%. One of the best school districts in the state (Edmond), has said they will need at least 300 new teachers next year to cover attrition and growth, but the entire state is only going to graduate 309 new teachers. Last year nearly 2000 teachers were certified through an emergency certification process because they were not actually qualified to be teachers.

The state constitution is also ridiculous in that it takes a 75% vote of each house to raise taxes, but only a simple majority to cut them. So even during a time when we've been having billion dollar budget gaps, they keep cutting revenue, while not raising any. Further, the only things republicans are willing to vote for are regressive taxes.

 

[Zorba]

Oklahoma teachers caved. Totally caved. They had all the leverage and could only sit out 9 days. Heck they sit out months during summer break. Even more so they could always just move to states with much better pay rates like tx right across the border or Massachusetts where they'd made 2.5-3x as much on average. The point of a walkout is to hold people's feet to the fire.

They did massively cave, very disappointing. The state was largely behind them, but now nothing will happen. What is really sad is how many will continue to vote republican.

 

[Sunburn74]

Whos feet? The school board, the elected officials or the people who are forced not only to pay the increased taxes to pay for the demands of the teachers but also to foot the bill for child coverage during the strike. What about the people who can't afford to pay for someone to watch their kid, and loses their job to stay home when the kiss are home, or worse lose their kids because losing their job is not an option and created a batch of latch key kids. Public servants should not be permitted to strike, the people using their services are forced to and have no other options. What conditions changes so much that an increase in wages is so important that they are willing to force a parent into a position of either leaving their kid alone or quitting\losing their job? Public servant jobs should be tied to the median income in the area they serve. Its not like anyone can go to their boss and say that because of the actions of the teachers and the increase of school taxes I need you to pay me more money to cover the increase. Its not like the person paying the bill can decide to reduce the level of service like they can with the internet or cable tv.

Hold the legislature's feet to the fire. Eventually parents and others will get sufficiently upset that action will have to be taken in the teachers favors. Teachers are much less replaceable than the legislature. Yet they caved. I don't get it.

If you can't afford to watch your kids at home, then pressure your reps to get the deal done or stop voting for reps that routinely choose to underpay teachers, use 50 year old textbooks held together by duct tape that call the internet "a new and upcoming thing" and that force children to sit on the floor when all the seats are taken. The fact of the matter is teacher pay and education quality is society' problem and so yes when teachers say its not good enough all of us have to deal with it. It also is probably part of the reason why Ok is pretty much at the bottom in terms of school quality (again 50 year old textbooks are still in use where DNA is a new idea).

In terms of changing conditions, when you adjust for inflation teachers in oklahoma make less money today than they did in 1990. They have been losing money steadily for decades due to cuts and constant 2% inflation. When the profession goes from being self sustaining to one where you need to have 2 or 3 side hustles, that is a problem that society has to deal with. When your teacher is also your waiter at applebees, things have changed enough to warrant a strike.

The teachers totally caved. Many of them have side jobs and they routinely go 3 months without pay due to summer break. You'd think they'd hold out longer to guarantee a massive pay raise and a huge boost to their quality of lives. Personally like I said, they should all just move out and get new jobs in real states.

 

[Moonbeam]

They did massively cave, very disappointing. The state was largely behind them, but now nothing will happen. What is really sad is how many will continue to vote republican.

Billions have been spent creating frustrated sheep. Maybe the next walkout will go better when America’s teachers have all been armed and completed tactical training.

 

[bshole]

Oklahoma teachers make less than 1/3 of what I do. Frankly it i

You realize that just means that most public servants would simply not work in low income areas and those areas would struggle to find teachers. Which would in turn cause those students to receive a poor education that would perpetuate a cycle of poverty.

Shit inner city schools are DESPERATE for teachers. My wife was making $75k/yr teaching in Milwaukee and had to quit because the stress was killing her. Inner city schools are completely fucked and it has nothing to do with the teachers. Schools in Milwaukee are a very violent place to be. Only when they start banning inner city thugs from school FOR LIFE will the inner city kids who want to learn have a chance. This should be a no-brainer.

 

[Sunburn74]

Billions have been spent creating frustrated sheep. Maybe the next walkout will go better when America’s teachers have all been armed and completed tactical training.

The problem is it undermines completely their ability to do a walkout next time. Not only are they still not even close to adequate pay after accounting for inflation despite this walkout and the limited concessions given but there can't be a next time because people will not be on their side as they just HAD a walkout and caved. You can't have a redo. A walkout only works if there is teeth behind it.

Basically at this point the only recourse for teachers is to leave the state in my opinion. There's a reason why Ok is 47th in the nation in education rankings.

 

[glenn1]

The problem is it undermines completely their ability to do a walkout next time. Not only are they still not even close to adequate pay after accounting for inflation but there can't be a next time because people will not be on their side as they just HAD a walkout and caved. You can't have a redo. A walkout only works if there is teeth behind it.

Basically at this point the only recourse for teachers is to leave the state in my opinion. There's a reason why Ok is 47th in the nation in education rankings.

The ones who can leave probably will. It then becomes the state's problem (if they even care) the only teachers who remain will be the ones who are basically bad enough they can't get hired anywhere else, or are stuck for family/personal reasons and will be so demoralized and negatively motivated they might act out in ways where it would be worse than not having a teacher at all. You get what you pay for and that includes teachers, if OK wants to prioritize saving money over hiring quality teachers that's on them.

 

[fleshconsumed]

I think it's a sad situation, and it angers me to no end when I read posts like SNC posted. I also think it's a bit insensitive and callous to use terms like "they totally caved", we don't know why they ended the strike, we don't know their reasons and circumstances, maybe they didn't want to harm the children, maybe they couldn't afford to? I do think they should have kept striking, it was a mistake to end the strike, but I cannot blame them either way, not for a second. I wish them all the best.

 

[Zorba]

Based on my discussions with co-workers that have teacher spouses, they were all still get their paychecks because the districts pay them on a year-round basis, i.e. they get paid less every month as opposed to more only in month they work. I think some districts allow teachers to pick, so it might have impacted those teachers more.

I don't the OEA actually voted on ending the walkout, and they weren't even who called for the walkout to begin with, they just declared it over. I think politicians were able to break them by claiming they were hurting the kids, etc. The republicans also did many things to try to wait them out and decrease having to interact with the teachers, like ending days early, starting late, not holding session on given days, etc.

I heard, but haven't seen it anywhere reliable, that continuing the walkout could've hurt federal funding and teachers didn't want to lose that.

 

[Stokely]

It's pretty sad that they are reduced to having to do it. How many jobs are as important as teaching young people? Unfortunate that they caved IMO. You get (more) good people if you pay for it. I'd argue the same goes for professions like police work. I wanted to be a teacher but I was able to choose between that and going into IT--and it's really hard to turn down double the money no matter how much you love to do something. Not to mention, while I loved teaching I HATED the layers of management involved (school board etc) and knew I wouldn't be a good fit for that bullshit...I have a hard enough time with IT management asshattery

As a society we are fine with CEOs getting balloon severances in the millions (they deserve it, they are the best!) and fine with shitting on people in the trenches involved with shaping the minds of the next generations. (they get the whole summer off, the lazy bums!) All you have to do is look at the states where these things are happening...

 

[Moonbeam]

The problem is it undermines completely their ability to do a walkout next time. Not only are they still not even close to adequate pay after accounting for inflation despite this walkout and the limited concessions given but there can't be a next time because people will not be on their side as they just HAD a walkout and caved. You can't have a redo. A walkout only works if there is teeth behind it.

Basically at this point the only recourse for teachers is to leave the state in my opinion. There's a reason why Ok is 47th in the nation in education rankings.

The problem is that democracy is dead. Government is owned by the 1% and they require a cavable population to stay in power. It will take a revolution to change this, not a teachers’ strike. Democrats blew their chance at that by not voting Sanders.

This is really the only issue there is. Revolution or crumbs. The revolution must be to end money’s grip on power. That will require campaign finance reform and an end to the SC decision that corporations are people and money is speech.

 

[Engineer]

As a society we are fine with CEOs getting balloon severances in the millions (they deserve it, they are the best!) and fine with shitting on people in the trenches involved with shaping the minds of the next generations. (they get the whole summer off, the lazy bums!) All you have to do is look at the states where these things are happening...

Not to mention what the people who shape the minds have to go through to try to do that very job. I wish I could multiple like your statement....I really do.

Oh, and on a side note, teachers out striking and protesting are causing kids to be molested, abused and trying drugs. Just ask KY governor Matt Bevin.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/state/sta...assaulted-poisoned-because-of-teacher-strikes

I'm sure it's happening in OK and other states too....right?

 

[WelshBloke]

What about the people who can't afford to pay for someone to watch their kid, and loses their job to stay home when the kiss are home, or worse lose their kids because losing their job is not an option and created a batch of latch key kids. Public servants should not be permitted to strike, the people using their services are forced to and have no other options.

If teachers are that important that everyone relys on them so much maybe they should be paid more and treated with a bit more respect.

Oh. And the right to withdraw ones labour is a fundamental human right.

 

[Zorba]

Not to mention what the people who shape the minds have to go through to try to do that very job. I wish I could multiple like your statement....I really do.

Oh, and on a side note, teachers out striking and protesting are causing kids to be molested, abused and trying drugs. Just ask KY governor Matt Bevin.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/state/sta...assaulted-poisoned-because-of-teacher-strikes

I'm sure it's happening in OK and other states too....right?

Yeah, OK governor said "Teachers asking for a raise is like a teenager asking for a nicer car." Even though at that point the teachers were mostly demanding restoration of school funding not a bigger raise.

 

[PlanetJosh]

The story gets one's attention due to the significant role they have with the students.

 

[Noah Abrams]

Oklahoma teachers make less than 1/3 of what I do. Frankly it i


Shit inner city schools are DESPERATE for teachers. My wife was making $75k/yr teaching in Milwaukee and had to quit because the stress was killing her. Inner city schools are completely fucked and it has nothing to do with the teachers. Schools in Milwaukee are a very violent place to be. Only when they start banning inner city thugs from school FOR LIFE will the inner city kids who want to learn have a chance. This should be a no-brainer.

I know things about teaching, some things. Teaching inner city Milwaukee and many other cities, I think many people won’t continue even if they are offered 750K

Heck it doesn’t even have to be inner city. Some suburbs are like that too. This is how fucked the society is. But yeah it’s all because they are victims

 

[sandorski]

Whos feet? The school board, the elected officials or the people who are forced not only to pay the increased taxes to pay for the demands of the teachers but also to foot the bill for child coverage during the strike. What about the people who can't afford to pay for someone to watch their kid, and loses their job to stay home when the kiss are home, or worse lose their kids because losing their job is not an option and created a batch of latch key kids. Public servants should not be permitted to strike, the people using their services are forced to and have no other options. What conditions changes so much that an increase in wages is so important that they are willing to force a parent into a position of either leaving their kid alone or quitting\losing their job? Public servant jobs should be tied to the median income in the area they serve. Its not like anyone can go to their boss and say that because of the actions of the teachers and the increase of school taxes I need you to pay me more money to cover the increase. Its not like the person paying the bill can decide to reduce the level of service like they can with the internet or cable tv.

School Boards, Politicians, and even the damned Tax Payers if need be.

 

[SNC]

As a society we are fine with CEOs getting balloon severances in the millions

I am not!

 

[SNC]

You obviously have no facts on the case in Oklahoma.

I was referring to all public service jobs. After reading a bit more about the situation it sounds really fucked. It does not change my opinion on striking.