Opinion: Jordan Peterson has always been a crank

[Moonbeam]

Actually, Mister Peterson, I am very much NOT saying they wear it "to enhance their sex appeal and for other reasons". I'm saying they wear it for reasons not related to sexualization at all. I encourage you to put that large intellect of yours to use and do some research on the matter, I'm not here to spoon-feed you.

No, you are here to divert attention to the fact that you don't want to defend your statement because of fear of ridicule because you can't That was an unnecessary anxiety to have because I knew you couldn't and wouldn't for that reason. The chain of denials you are willing to expose to me as will just consist of you endlessly thinking up some new reason why you won't engage. You imagine yourself to be clever but you are as transparent as glass.

Here's an alternative to how this could have gone. You: Women simply want to conform to social norms. Women wear makeup as socially accepted behavior which circles right back to why is it socially acceptable and the reason it makes one look more appealing, sexually appealing.

 

[Moonbeam]

First of all, we would be able to have a much fuller conversation about this if women were involved, as neither you nor I nor Peterson can actually speak to how women generally or individually think and feel about wearing makeup. I think Peterson pointing at the origins/intentions of the makeup women wear in modern society as explicitly and exclusively sexualizing and just stopping there as if there could be no further nuance or understanding to be gained from women's point of view is reductive and selectively biased.

In the first place you stop after asking a question, the question being would a ban on women's makeup reduce sexual harassment. That discussion never happened because the interviewer came into the interview with a biased attitude and diverted the conversation. he didn't have what it takes to think. Secondly, women in the conversation would be just fine but the issues involved took place between two men, one asking the other his opinion. I am asking you what Peterson asked another man so don't hide behind a woman's skirts.

The idea that there are no rules or no one is sure what they are is absurd on its face. There are more rules regarding sexual harassment in the modern American workplace which are more explicitly spelled out and trained on than at any time in history.

God damn it, that issue. There are millions of them, which serve to reduce workplace harassment of women.

Any workplace of any significant size has written rules which they must provide and ensure employees understand on pain of lawsuits. And even if they don't the rules still exist as part of the fabric of anti-discrimination laws throughout this country. How many workplaces have no dress code whatsoever? How many workplaces exist where I can work in the office in a Borat-style banana hammock with Kiss makeup? Leaving legalities totally to the side, there are social rules that most people understand about how to interact with other people in polite society which are collectively enforced.

Yeah, I noticed how simpatico everybody was with igor's take on what the rules should be. We are in the middle of a culture war and you simply imagine your side won. I have news for you.

The bottom line however is that a woman can't cause me to sexually harass her because she's wearing red lipstick and rouge. She doesn't cause me to say, "nice tits!" just because she's wearing a blouse which enables me to see a sliver of cleavage. That's on me. The idea that women are responsible for men not harassing them at work is ridiculous.

Haha, so you are just like me, you don't give a shit about their feelings. We are more alike than many here but you just don't know it. You are god awful full of assumptions though that I don't have. I'm not really confused about the rules. I don't live by them and that confused others. I don't believe what I can't prove. I know I don't know. It is true however that I can forget that.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yeah, "modern" brainwashed women are like that. But there are many more who don't care how their husband presents himself to society. All she cares about is supporting her husband 100% through thick and thin. I have seen lucky men like that out there. The general pattern I've seen is that females who don't do so well in their education OR who only get educated because society expects them to, generally make better wives because they are not very ambitious. The smart and ambitious ones want their husbands to be even smarter and more ambitious than them. These are the type of women one needs to avoid if one wishes peace and quiet in their family life.

I grew really close to a woman who was making $500 more than me. When I brought up the subject of marriage, she hinted in the weird ways women do that she would like me to make twice what she makes. I stopped caring about developing any further relationship with her because I understood that she was looking for bigger fish to fry. Just wish women would come out and say directly what they want instead of wasting men's time.

A story I think you will like that I can't tell very well because I don't remember the characters names or the exact plot but it goes something like this. A man married a woman and the groom's father, a devout man, gave the daughter in law a copy of the Koran in which he sequestered a large sum of money a reward for her potential piety. His son and the wife fell on hard times and the son asked him for a loan whereupon the father let lose a tirade the daughter. As it happens the father was a follower of a certain Sufi teacher to whom he confided the story only to be informed teacher that his daughter in law could not read, could not recite the Koran, but perfectly reflected the inner teachings contained it every minute of the day. Luck groom, I would say.

PS: Be thankful that women treat you like dirt. See yourself as a saint. While some bitch abuses the hell out of you some lucky stiff somewhere else is free from her abuse. Thank you for that.

 

[Pontius Dilate]

In the first place you stop after asking a question, the question being would a ban on women's makeup reduce sexual harassment. That discussion never happened because the interviewer came into the interview with a biased attitude and diverted the conversation. he didn't have what it takes to think. Secondly, women in the conversation would be just fine but the issues involved took place between two men, one asking the other his opinion. I am asking you what Peterson asked another man so don't hide behind a woman's skirts.

I don't agree with your interpretation, and I don't agree with the premise of the question, but never mind that. The answer is no, it would not reduce sexual harassment because the cause isn't the makeup.

God damn it, that issue. There are millions of them, which serve to reduce workplace harassment of women.

I have no idea what you are saying here. Feel free to dunk on me for not understanding.

Yeah, I noticed how simpatico everybody was with igor's take on what the rules should be. We are in the middle of a culture war and you simply imagine your side won. I have news for you.

Igor said all women are bad for men in the workplace, in his experience. I personally think that says more about him than it says about women. The idea that there is a culture war is a red herring.

Haha, so you are just like me, you don't give a shit about their feelings. We are more alike than many here but you just don't know it. You are god awful full of assumptions though that I don't have. I'm not really confused about the rules. I don't live by them and that confused others. I don't believe what I can't prove. I know I don't know. It is true however that I can forget that.

Again, this doesn't appear to be at all responsive to what I said, which is that people are responsible for their own feelings and their own actions. Whose feelings do I not give a shit about? What in heaven's name are you talking about?

 

[nakedfrog]

No, you are here to divert attention to the fact that you don't want to defend your statement because of fear of ridicule because you can't That was an unnecessary anxiety to have because I knew you couldn't and wouldn't for that reason. The chain of denials you are willing to expose to me as will just consist of you endlessly thinking up some new reason why you won't engage. You imagine yourself to be clever but you are as transparent as glass.

Here's an alternative to how this could have gone. You: Women simply want to conform to social norms. Women wear makeup as socially accepted behavior which circles right back to why is it socially acceptable and the reason it makes one look more appealing, sexually appealing.

That's a lot of words for "no, I will not do any research, because I already know everything" (much like your hero, JBP)
Don't bother responding, as I won't be reading it, I've had enough of your pseudo-intellectual vapidity to get my fill for a while

 

[brycejones]

Yeah, "modern" brainwashed women are like that. But there are many more who don't care how their husband presents himself to society. All she cares about is supporting her husband 100% through thick and thin. I have seen lucky men like that out there. The general pattern I've seen is that females who don't do so well in their education OR who only get educated because society expects them to, generally make better wives because they are not very ambitious. The smart and ambitious ones want their husbands to be even smarter and more ambitious than them. These are the type of women one needs to avoid if one wishes peace and quiet in their family life.

I grew really close to a woman who was making $500 more than me. When I brought up the subject of marriage, she hinted in the weird ways women do that she would like me to make twice what she makes. I stopped caring about developing any further relationship with her because I understood that she was looking for bigger fish to fry. Just wish women would come out and say directly what they want instead of wasting men's time.

Are you an incel?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Are you an incel?

Yeah, every guy who has trouble with women somehow gets flagged as an incel. Women are blameless. Always.

 

[igor_kavinski]

A story I think you will like that I can't tell very well because I don't remember the characters names or the exact plot but it goes something like this. A man married a woman and the groom's father, a devout man, gave the daughter in law a copy of the Koran in which he sequestered a large sum of money a reward for her potential piety. His son and the wife fell on hard times and the son asked him for a loan whereupon the father let lose a tirade the daughter. As it happens the father was a follower of a certain Sufi teacher to whom he confided the story only to be informed teacher that his daughter in law could not read, could not recite the Koran, but perfectly reflected the inner teachings contained it every minute of the day. Luck groom, I would say.

Yeah, the story doesn't make sense, sorry.

PS: Be thankful that women treat you like dirt. See yourself as a saint. While some bitch abuses the hell out of you some lucky stiff somewhere else is free from her abuse. Thank you for that.

That figures because I'm No.9 and I tend to take abuse so others don't have to. Been a pattern throughout my life.

 

[brycejones]

Yeah, every guy who has trouble with women somehow gets flagged as an incel. Women are blameless. Always.

Have you read your posts? The only specific evidence you have given us in this thread is a woman who made a comment to a third party about you taking an elevator one floor. You have given no other evidence of any overtly hostile act against you by the women in your workplace.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Women wear makeup as socially accepted behavior which circles right back to why is it socially acceptable and the reason it makes one look more appealing, sexually appealing.

Yeah. When the pigs are bosses and make-up can make them treat their female employees better and the women can get better favors from those pigs, sure, then obviously women will wear make-up for career advancement purposes. If the boss isn't a pig, he would probably ask his female employees not to dress inappropriately or look too glamorous because that would interfere with his ability to judge them fairly based on their work performance.

 

[brycejones]

Yeah. When the pigs are bosses and make-up can make them treat their female employees better and the women can get better favors from those pigs, sure, then obviously women will wear make-up for career advancement purposes. If the boss isn't a pig, he would probably ask his female employees not to dress inappropriately or look too glamorous because that would interfere with his ability to judge them fairly based on their work performance.

You want to get in trouble with HR telling your employees to look more ugly is a quick way to it it’s also just inappropriate.

 

[igor_kavinski]

You have given no other evidence of any overtly hostile act against you by the women in your workplace.

Why would they do something overtly hostile? It's like you are pretending you have no idea about the games women play and the passive aggressive nature of their behavior with men they are not fond of. If you think only men want to surround themselves with beautiful women, well, I have news for you. Most women have a strong preference for being around attractive guys and I can assure you that while a man may tolerate an ordinary looking woman and even have the capacity to be kind to her, most women LACK that capacity when dealing with men they disapprove of, men who have done nothing to them other than wanting nothing to do with them because they are in the workplace to focus on their work and not charm or praise women to tickle such women's fragile egos.

 

[igor_kavinski]

You want to get in trouble with HR telling your employees to look more ugly is a quick way to it it’s also just inappropriate.

Most women are not ugly and you can judge a woman's intentions with how much make-up she wears in the workplace. Those with the most make-up usually have ulterior motives. My own Head of HR will look like a bum on most days but on certain days she looks like a European beauty. Wanna know why? Those certain days the top boss of the group companies visits his office in the building.

Women USE their sexuality in the workplace. I don't know why the feminist simps have trouble accepting this fact.

 

[brycejones]

Most women are not ugly and you can judge a woman's intentions with how much make-up she wears in the workplace. Those with the most make-up usually have ulterior motives. My own Head of HR will look like a bum on most days but on certain days she looks like a European beauty. Wanna know why? Those certain days the top boss of the group companies visits his office in the building.

Women USE their sexuality in the workplace. I don't know why the feminist simps have trouble accepting this fact.

You seem to have some serious self esteem issues. You should look into working on that. You’re like a post or two away from posting a manifesto.

 

[brycejones]

Why would they do something overtly hostile? It's like you are pretending you have no idea about the games women play and the passive aggressive nature of their behavior with men they are not fond of. If you think only men want to surround themselves with beautiful women, well, I have news for you. Most women have a strong preference for being around attractive guys and I can assure you that while a man may tolerate an ordinary looking woman and even have the capacity to be kind to her, most women LACK that capacity when dealing with men they disapprove of, men who have done nothing to them other than wanting nothing to do with them because they are in the workplace to focus on their work and not charm or praise women to tickle such women's fragile egos.

I go out of my way to try to ignore my female coworkers and I wonder why they don’t like me is certainly a take. You need to work on you, you are the problem.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Most women are not ugly and you can judge a woman's intentions with how much make-up she wears in the workplace. Those with the most make-up usually have ulterior motives. My own Head of HR will look like a bum on most days but on certain days she looks like a European beauty. Wanna know why? Those certain days the top boss of the group companies visits his office in the building.

Women USE their sexuality in the workplace. I don't know why the feminist simps have trouble accepting this fact.

Reminds me of the other days i had a meeting with my manager, and we turn video on for those, so i made sure i was all cleaned up and wore a shirt with a collar. Guess its just the feminist simp in me.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Reminds me of the other days i had a meeting with my manager, and we turn video on for those, so i made sure i was all cleaned up and wore a shirt with a collar. Guess its just the feminist simp in me.

You are deflecting. Most decent managers or bosses don't care about what you wear or what you look like. They care about the value you bring to the workplace with your work.

 

[igor_kavinski]

You’re like a post or two away from posting a manifesto.

Nah. I don't care enough to do that. The world is messed up. My actions can't do anything to change that so why bother? Only reason I'm voicing my thoughts in this thread is because it's pertinent to understanding what JP's ramblings are about.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I go out of my way to try to ignore my female coworkers and I wonder why they don’t like me is certainly a take.

You are proving my point with that statement. Do females come to a workplace to be liked? I thought a workplace is meant for work, not for validation of one's personality or appearance.

I will never turn away a female if she has a genuine work related thing to discuss with me. But outside of that, I don't care about them. They are more trouble than they are worth.

I hear often how women from my company branches try to "seduce" my co-workers with their playful voices when they call for support (they usually put them on speaker). The same women don't do that with me because they know it doesn't work on me. I refuse to respond to anything from them that has nothing to do with my work.

 

[brycejones]

You are proving my point with that statement. Do females come to a workplace to be liked? I thought a workplace is meant for work, not for validation of one's personality or appearance.

Workplaces are a collection of humans, human behavior happens, it’s why there is such as thing as office politics and different personalities mesh or don’t mesh in different ways. Your view of what should be the only behavior in the office is frankly unrealistic. So no, I didn’t prove your point. You need to figure out how to interact with your co-workers. Getting work of any kind of complexity and value done is a team sport. When you refuse to build connections wirh your coworkers you are failing as a team member.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You are deflecting. Most decent managers or bosses don't care about what you wear or what you look like. They care about the value you bring to the workplace with your work.

Its the same thing you described in the post i quoted. Standard behavior.

Do you shower? Shave? Why?

 

[dlerious]

You are proving my point with that statement. Do females come to a workplace to be liked? I thought a workplace is meant for work, not for validation of one's personality or appearance.

I will never turn away a female if she has a genuine work related thing to discuss with me. But outside of that, I don't care about them. They are more trouble than they are worth.

Didn't you say you lost a job when you were playfully bouncing a ball with a female co-worker in post 356? Doesn't sound like a work related thing.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Didn't you say you lost a job when you were playfully bouncing a ball with a female co-worker in post 356? Doesn't sound like a work related thing.

I didn't lose the job because of that particular incident. The Finance Director A-hole was just pissed that his ex was being cheerful with me. And I was only being playful with that female coz she was a genuinely nice, frail little thing and when she passed the ball to me, I didn't want to hurt her feelings so played along.

One of my worst issues with women is that they love putting me in their friendzone so I've stopped interacting with them altogether. Too old now for their crap.

The slogan that would best describe me: Igor - The brother girls never had!

 

[mikeymikec]

One of my worst issues with women is that they love putting me in their friendzone so I've stopped interacting with them altogether. Too old now for their crap.

The slogan that would best describe me: Igor - The brother girls never had!

This is another example of you using such stereotypically incel language that it's like you went out of your way to sound like one. Honestly, if you found yourself a gathering of incels and spouted the crap you've been spouting here, they would welcome you like one of their own.

Personally I think your problem is that you treat women like an alien species that you desperately want to fuck, it shows when you interact with them and therefore you get rejected, and each time the same old strategy doesn't work, it further radicalises you against them. For the sake of self-preservation, women have to recognise that many men just want to get into their pants, and for women that scenario carries many risks, and far worse risks than it does for men.

If you want my advice, stop listening to JP et al, they're only going to help further your radicalisation. It's no coincidence that this thread descended into repeated recitals of the narcissist's prayer and misogyny. I realise that's another word you're not going to like, but the fact of the matter is you're acting like the ~4 billion women on this planet got churned out from a factory with beliefs and catchphrases preinstalled, and you haven't figured out which button you need to press to initiate consensual sex. Keep going down this path and you'll start learning how to successfully target vulnerable women (probably thanks to "pickup artists"), and a bit further down the path is the sex offenders register.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Personally I think your problem is that you treat women like an alien species that you desperately want to fuck, it shows when you interact with them and therefore you get rejected, and each time the same old strategy doesn't work, it further radicalises you against them.

you haven't figured out which button you need to press to initiate consensual sex. Keep going down this path and you'll start learning how to successfully target vulnerable women (probably thanks to "pickup artists"), and a bit further down the path is the sex offenders register.

That's the funny thing. Getting laid hasn't ever been an issue for me since I've been in situations where the woman has hit on me very directly and let me know her intentions that she wanted to get down and dirty. Women don't just want a fucktoy. They want one they can control and sex is just an excuse as the first step. My issues in the workplace have been with women in totally non-sexual scenarios where they treated me like they were offended that there wasn't someone better to deal with, someone more handsome, someone younger and someone more willing to praise or charm them.

Outside of work, I've had instances where salesgirls have stood so close to me that it freaked me out, like literally breathing on my face and then on the other hand, female attendent at a palatial hotel in Dubai looked directly at my colleague and ignored that I was even present beside him and did not once meet my eyes. I've no explanation for these weird extreme behaviors.