Opinion: Jordan Peterson has always been a crank

[ch33zw1z]

Management issue where they don't care what the women do. Meaning the women are off the hook. Which allows them to show their true colors. Give them free reign and you get what I've described in my posts. Didn't you read what Marissa did to Yahoo! and how men were treated there?

So you agree its a management issue and most women arent tools of satan?

 

[outriding]

Easy for you to say. You haven't been the victim of discrimination.

There's a private lift that we were allowed to use since 2015. Last year it was restricted with a keypad. There's this woman in the building (some lawyer) who took offense with me when the elevator door opened, I saw her alone in it and stepped aside because I didn't want her to feel uncomfortable. She apparently took that as an offense, probably thinking I was displaying arrogance and decided not to enter the elevator with her due to that. I had been using the private elevator for years and many executives saw me using it and didn't complain.

One day, I enter the private elevator and just before the door was closing, she and an executive come inside. My stop was just one floor down so I stepped out and behind me, I heard her joking with the executive, he could've used the stairs. I felt angry at her remark but couldn't do anything because she belonged to the investment group that had bought out the company I work in so they look at us like we are their slaves. Within less than a month, the electronic keypad was installed and I was no longer able to use it to go down.

But it gets better! I was still able to use it from my floor to go up to the COO's office which I needed to do several times a day. They had cheaped out and decided not to install the keypad on my floor. So they saw me using the elevator again and guess what happened next? On my floor, they put up a metallic sign saying that employees of my company are not allowed to use this private elevator. And guess what? Other employees are still using it. There are cameras installed so they know it is being used. But since I am not using it anymore due to that sign, they are happy. However, they still feel incredibly indignant when they see me around so they hatched a new plan. They are forcing our office out of the building, out of the city to a nearby city almost one hour away which is going to force me to consider leaving this company.

So my life disturbed and upended by a malicious woman but of course, none of you are concerned about my plight or my inconvenience. You feminists are fine with whatever happens to me. It's that malicious woman you would like to see protected every single time.

Or the woman was just a cvnt and she would have done it no matter what

I used to work for GM and the executives put in a dedicated elevator just for themselves so they would not have to stand next to us lower class plebes… note this was in office in downtown Pontiac Michigan and I heard of other sites that had this done

 

[igor_kavinski]

most women arent tools of satan?

Need more data and experience to agree to that.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Need more data and experience to agree to that.

You need more data about ~3.5 billion people to weigh whether or not theyre tools of a fictional being?

Some may assert you would need more data to support your assertion to begin with, agree?

Data seems to not matter to you in this space.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Is there a physical issue preventing you from using the stairs?

No. It was just quicker and faster. I'm walking up two flights of stairs daily now. So I guess better for my health. Still don't appreciate how it happened.

If you find evidence of that then you might have a sex discrimination claim. But I don’t see it from what you have shared here.

Obviously women like her are never stupid. She will be passive aggressive towards me as much as she wants but obviously she is not going to let evidence of her behavior be made available for me to conveniently present. I have no contact or interaction with her. She just happens to work there.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Data seems to not matter to you in this space.

Why does it matter anyway? Men like me are the minority who get discriminated against by women. Most men I know have no issue with the women in my workplace. Apparently, I'm surrounded by feminists who give the benefit of the doubt to women and happily put up with their mood swings.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Why does it matter anyway? Men like me are the minority who get discriminated against by women. Most men I know have no issue with the women in my workplace. Apparently, I'm surrounded by feminists who give the benefit of the doubt to women and happily put up with their mood swings.

Im not sure you understand what youre revealing with your responses. Why would you label them feminists? Be specific.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Why would you label them feminists? Be specific.

Because the women are doing less critical work but still being paid more, some more than me (I do the payroll). But no one has a problem with that. Mainly because I think they see speaking about it as futile and acceptance of toxic status quo to me is the same as supporting it. Hence they are feminists who don't mind having the women take more money home for doing less. And this is mainly happening because the Head of HR is a woman. So she's unjustly benefiting womankind at the expense of the men in my workplace but no one wants to even say that it is happening except me.

 

[brycejones]

No. It was just quicker and faster. I'm walking up two flights of stairs daily now. So I guess better for my health. Still don't appreciate how it happened.



Obviously women like her are never stupid. She will be passive aggressive towards me as much as she wants but obviously she is not going to let evidence of her behavior be made available for me to conveniently present. I have no contact or interaction with her. She just happens to work there.

So you had one interaction with a woman, something changed in the office environment, and it’s because she is out to make Igor’s life hell.

Do you realize how this sounds?

 

[Fenixgoon]

Because the women are doing less critical work but still being paid more, some more than me (I do the payroll). But no one has a problem with that. Mainly because I think they see speaking about it as futile and acceptance of toxic status quo to me is the same as supporting it. Hence they are feminists who don't mind having the women take more money home for doing less. And this is mainly happening because the Head of HR is a woman. So she's unjustly benefiting womankind at the expense of the men in my workplace but no one wants to even say that it is happening except me.

Dumb question..if you believe you should be paid more, are you seeking alternative employment where you are valued accordingly?

The only person who can consistently advocate for you is you.
If someone is able to negotiate well for their compensation, that is good for them. That does not mean you are being penalized for their benefit. It probably means the company is happy to pay you below what you should be making, and will continue to do so unless they have reason (e.g. a competing offer) to increase your compensation.

 

[brycejones]

Because the women are doing less critical work but still being paid more, some more than me (I do the payroll). But no one has a problem with that. Mainly because I think they see speaking about it as futile and acceptance of toxic status quo to me is the same as supporting it. Hence they are feminists who don't mind having the women take more money home for doing less. And this is mainly happening because the Head of HR is a woman. So she's unjustly benefiting womankind at the expense of the men in my workplace but no one wants to even say that it is happening except me.

why are you staying at this organization?

 

[igor_kavinski]

why are you staying at this organization?

It's complicated but my days are numbered anyway. I don't think I will be able to cope with moving to a different city so I will most likely resign in a few months or if these women are successful, my contract will not be renewed (also coming up in a few months).

 

[igor_kavinski]

Dumb question..if you believe you should be paid more, are you seeking alternative employment where you are valued accordingly?

The only person who can consistently advocate for you is you.
If someone is able to negotiate well for their compensation, that is good for them. That does not mean you are being penalized for their benefit. It probably means the company is happy to pay you below what you should be making, and will continue to do so unless they have reason (e.g. a competing offer) to increase your compensation.

Good advice. As for the answer to your question, I had a bad start in life (crazy dad unsupportive of my dreams who got fed up trying to support my education so had to take up the current job).

 

[nakedfrog]

Because the women are doing less critical work but still being paid more, some more than me (I do the payroll). But no one has a problem with that. Mainly because I think they see speaking about it as futile and acceptance of toxic status quo to me is the same as supporting it. Hence they are feminists who don't mind having the women take more money home for doing less. And this is mainly happening because the Head of HR is a woman. So she's unjustly benefiting womankind at the expense of the men in my workplace but no one wants to even say that it is happening except me.

Do you think feminism is about elevating women above men? A popular feminist saying is "equal pay for equal work".

 

[ch33zw1z]

Because the women are doing less critical work but still being paid more, some more than me (I do the payroll). But no one has a problem with that. Mainly because I think they see speaking about it as futile and acceptance of toxic status quo to me is the same as supporting it. Hence they are feminists who don't mind having the women take more money home for doing less. And this is mainly happening because the Head of HR is a woman. So she's unjustly benefiting womankind at the expense of the men in my workplace but no one wants to even say that it is happening except me.

Im sure you understand what youre describing is not “feminism”.

I will say that in human history, women have often been treated as lesser than. Even with womens liberation and equality movements, progress overall has been slow, coupled with a current USA political that seeks to regress to a time when women will be treated that way again.

The Enduring Grip of the Gender Pay Gap

The pay gap between men and women has barely closed in the past two decades, even as women today are more likely than men to have graduated from college, suggesting other factors are at play.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Moonbeam]

Someone let me know when Jordan Peterson starts exclusively wearing practical gray jumpsuits and stops grooming because how you specifically dress and groom yourself also has a bearing on how you project yourself sexually among men and women. I might take him seriously about women wearing makeup then.

Knowing the inate chemical responses of a sexual nature produced by the color red does not mean he has an issue wearing red colored or any other color of makeup. The issue is that his knowledge and your reaction to him knowing and saying it rattles your liberal oh so modern meal feminism as the likely source of your foolish misrepresentation. Your ideological devotion to the victim mentality of many feminists and you need to suck up to it out of your own desire to be sexually appealing to essentially men haters is, I think more likely the issue, because nothing that Peterson said implies he is against women wearing makeup up. That idea happened only in your head. Women want men their men to enhance their social status and having a well groomed good looking gentleman at their side fills that bill. Go make your bed.

 

[Pontius Dilate]

Knowing the inate chemical responses of a sexual nature produced by the color red does not mean he has an issue wearing red colored or any other color of makeup. The issue is that his knowledge and your reaction to him knowing and saying it rattles your liberal oh so modern meal feminism as the likely source of your foolish misrepresentation. Your ideological devotion to the victim mentality of many feminists and you need to suck up to it out of your own desire to be sexually appealing to essentially men haters is, I think more likely the issue, because nothing that Peterson said implies he is against women wearing makeup up. That idea happened only in your head. Women want men their men to enhance their social status and having a well groomed good looking gentleman at their side fills that bill. Go make your bed.

In that interview (of which that Reddit link is obviously a miniscule part) the larger conversation is about sexual harassments in the workplace, which Jordan Peterson says isn't going to stop in the near future because "we don't know what the rules are" when men and women work together. He goes on to propose for the purposes of discussion, how about no makeup in the workplace because it's sexually provocative. When asked if Peterson is saying that women who wear makeup to work have sexualized themselves, Peterson replies, "That's what makeup is for. That's self-evident. Why else would you wear makeup?" He says the same thing about high heels that they are a sexual display. When asked if women wearing makeup and high heels in the work place contributes to sexual harassment he says, "Sure it contributes." So while he doesn't say that people should never use sexual displays in the workplace or that women should never wear makeup, he is saying that women who wear makeup or high heels are deliberately sexualizing themselves and contribute to their own sexual harassment in the workplace. I know this because I checked the context. I never said Peterson said he is against women wearing makeup. That idea happened only in your head.

 

[nakedfrog]

I think you'll often find that in professional environments, red lipstick is eschewed in favor of other hues. Men, in general, know very little about make-up, or how women can be perceived in these environments if they do show up with no make-up rather than just a light/"natural" look. It's not a one size all situation, but you're definitely an idiot if you think women solely wear makeup for sexualization purposes.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think you'll often find that in professional environments, red lipstick is eschewed in favor of other hues. Men, in general, know very little about make-up, or how women can be perceived in these environments if they do show up with no make-up rather than just a light/"natural" look. It's not a one size all situation, but you're definitely an idiot if you think women solely wear makeup for sexualization purposes.

What you are saying then is that women wear makeup to enhance their sex appeal and for other reasons. Now given that people find sexual attractiveness appealing, what other reasons do you suggest they might have for wearing it?

 

[Moonbeam]

In that interview (of which that Reddit link is obviously a miniscule part) the larger conversation is about sexual harassments in the workplace, which Jordan Peterson says isn't going to stop in the near future because "we don't know what the rules are" when men and women work together. He goes on to propose for the purposes of discussion, how about no makeup in the workplace because it's sexually provocative. When asked if Peterson is saying that women who wear makeup to work have sexualized themselves, Peterson replies, "That's what makeup is for. That's self-evident. Why else would you wear makeup?" He says the same thing about high heels that they are a sexual display. When asked if women wearing makeup and high heels in the work place contributes to sexual harassment he says, "Sure it contributes." So while he doesn't say that people should never use sexual displays in the workplace or that women should never wear makeup, he is saying that women who wear makeup or high heels are deliberately sexualizing themselves and contribute to their own sexual harassment in the workplace. I know this because I checked the context. I never said Peterson said he is against women wearing makeup. That idea happened only in your head.

Are you capable of discussing the question of no makeup in the work place as a means to reduce sexual harassment. My objection of to liberal liberal trigger happiness regarding anything Peterson says, and especially out of context, is why I post as I do. I am neither pro or anti Peterson. I find his points of view interesting. I know the context in which he spoke.

Please tell me what you think of the idea of no makeup for women in the work place as a means of keeping them from being harasses. How do the many opinions that exist in our culture regarding women in the work place clash because nobody is clear on the rules find resolution? He proposes a rule. What do you think of it as positive or negative toward solution. Does the guestion suggest confusion about what rules should apply. Peterson is asking you to think. Can you, or are you just swept away by assumptions you have that he triggers. You can’t have a dialogue with Peterson on that question, but you can have one with me. Want to try?

 

[nakedfrog]

What you are saying then is that women wear makeup to enhance their sex appeal and for other reasons. Now given that people find sexual attractiveness appealing, what other reasons do you suggest they might have for wearing it?

Actually, Mister Peterson, I am very much NOT saying they wear it "to enhance their sex appeal and for other reasons". I'm saying they wear it for reasons not related to sexualization at all. I encourage you to put that large intellect of yours to use and do some research on the matter, I'm not here to spoon-feed you.

 

[Pontius Dilate]

Are you capable of discussing the question of no makeup in the work place as a means to reduce sexual harassment. My objection of to liberal liberal trigger happiness regarding anything Peterson says, and especially out of context, is why I post as I do. I am neither pro or anti Peterson. I find his points of view interesting. I know the context in which he spoke.

Please tell me what you think of the idea of no makeup for women in the work place as a means of keeping them from being harasses. How do the many opinions that exist in our culture regarding women in the work place clash because nobody is clear on the rules find resolution? He proposes a rule. What do you think of it as positive or negative toward solution. Does the guestion suggest confusion about what rules should apply. Peterson is asking you to think. Can you, or are you just swept away by assumptions you have that he triggers. You can’t have a dialogue with Peterson on that question, but you can have one with me. Want to try?

First of all, we would be able to have a much fuller conversation about this if women were involved, as neither you nor I nor Peterson can actually speak to how women generally or individually think and feel about wearing makeup. I think Peterson pointing at the origins/intentions of the makeup women wear in modern society as explicitly and exclusively sexualizing and just stopping there as if there could be no further nuance or understanding to be gained from women's point of view is reductive and selectively biased.

The idea that there are no rules or no one is sure what they are is absurd on its face. There are more rules regarding sexual harassment in the modern American workplace which are more explicitly spelled out and trained on than at any time in history. Any workplace of any significant size has written rules which they must provide and ensure employees understand on pain of lawsuits. And even if they don't the rules still exist as part of the fabric of anti-discrimination laws throughout this country. How many workplaces have no dress code whatsoever? How many workplaces exist where I can work in the office in a Borat-style banana hammock with Kiss makeup? Leaving legalities totally to the side, there are social rules that most people understand about how to interact with other people in polite society which are collectively enforced.

The bottom line however is that a woman can't cause me to sexually harass her because she's wearing red lipstick and rouge. She doesn't cause me to say, "nice tits!" just because she's wearing a blouse which enables me to see a sliver of cleavage. That's on me. The idea that women are responsible for men not harassing them at work is ridiculous.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Do you think feminism is about elevating women above men? A popular feminist saying is "equal pay for equal work".

Im sure you understand what youre describing is not “feminism”.

Then there needs to be another name for what I'm describing and it is what JP rages on about that we as modern men who have no part in how women were treated throughout history are now trying to apologize for being men and letting women have their way at our expense.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Then there needs to be another name for what I'm describing and it is what JP rages on about that we as modern men who have no part in how women were treated throughout history are now trying to apologize for being men and letting women have their way at our expense.

I haven't had to apologize for being a man, and were still treating women as lesser than today. On top of that, the US has a political movement looking to take womens rights away.

What you’re describing is eerily similar to how modern US white conservatives are complaining about equality feeling like oppression. Well, when youre used to having the upper hand, it can seem like that.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Women want men their men to enhance their social status and having a well groomed good looking gentleman at their side fills that bill.

Yeah, "modern" brainwashed women are like that. But there are many more who don't care how their husband presents himself to society. All she cares about is supporting her husband 100% through thick and thin. I have seen lucky men like that out there. The general pattern I've seen is that females who don't do so well in their education OR who only get educated because society expects them to, generally make better wives because they are not very ambitious. The smart and ambitious ones want their husbands to be even smarter and more ambitious than them. These are the type of women one needs to avoid if one wishes peace and quiet in their family life.

I grew really close to a woman who was making $500 more than me. When I brought up the subject of marriage, she hinted in the weird ways women do that she would like me to make twice what she makes. I stopped caring about developing any further relationship with her because I understood that she was looking for bigger fish to fry. Just wish women would come out and say directly what they want instead of wasting men's time.