Operation Cluster****: US Strike Kills 90 Civilians In Afghanistan, 15 Wounded

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Jun 26, 2007
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Just ONE will be enough, it takes nothing more than that.

This will be the only reply you'll ever get and you'll always fail to provide it.

All it takes, all that is asked for is ONE.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just one what?---please define what you want oh master of the vague.

But you better be quick, if you want to mount that head of the three month old infant
Nato managed to kill with another air strike. It would look so good mounted in your trophy room. But in this heat it rots fast and your taxidermist may not be able to save it.

Maybe you can give me one reason why Afghanistan and Pakistan should allow you to stay in their country. As each and every year you do worse and worse! While you play boys life agent 007 with a unlimited license to kill.

Do you really have that much of a problem comprehending the post right above yours?

It's not the first time you've been asked and it's not the first time you've stated bullsheit without backing any of it up.

Yeah, i'm the child killer, sure i am, that the population in Kabul knows me by name and are confident in my group to keep them safe from the Taliban doesn't mean shit, cause i'm mounting the heads of dead babies on my walls.

I don't have to give YOU any reason what so ever, little boy, we are welcomed wherever we go here in spite of the likes of you trying to whip up hatred against the troops of NATO.

I find you utterly disgusting and part of the inherent problem of the current US government, they sure have you thinking that the WOT and the troops keeping peace in Afghanistan BY REQUEST of the population are the same thing as bombing Iraq.

Congrats, you're so stupid even Bush could fool you, i'm waiting for a black hole to form around you since i didn't even think it was possible to be THAT stupid.

To others, more intelligent posters, one will suffice, we don't even need the name, an honest admission given to any of you will be good enough.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Originally posted by: palehorse
...
Please provide me with the name and disposition of one current member of the Taliban who does not fit the description I have given of their entire membership. (That is, each and every one of them advocates wanton rape and murder in the name of Islam as a form of legitimate controlling governance).

If you can do so, I will bow down and admit that you're the smartest man alive.

Just one.

...

This request seems to have been overlooked by the Taliban defenders
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What a bullshit argument, Common Courtesy. While I do not want to defend the Taliban in any way, we have need only look at the tribal regions of Pakistan to get our answer. While we only have the undocumented contentions of just two and only two people in JOS and palehorse, that ALL Taliban see ANY female, they promptly whip out their rifles and shoot them in the Vagina. Ye haw. Given all the Taliban that the US occupation pushed into the Pakistani tribal regions regions, if what JOS and palehorse tell us are true, there should not be a single remaining female alive in all of Pakistan. Funny thing, the people of the Tribal regions reserve their outrage at US troops trying to invade them while no wholesale slaughters of Pakistani women get reported.

I also recall all those reports from Gulf war one to the effect that Iraqi troops invading Kuwait dumped premature Kuwaiti infants out of incubators to the floor in an orgy of brutality.

Sorry Common Courtesy, maybe you need to pay a little bit more attention to your own bullshit detectors that seem to be stuck on a power level of zero.

Or maybe you will accept the credibility of former Ronald Reagan freedom fighters
that have now joined the Taliban to bring 25 plus years of CIA training into the mix.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Originally posted by: palehorse
...
Please provide me with the name and disposition of one current member of the Taliban who does not fit the description I have given of their entire membership. (That is, each and every one of them advocates wanton rape and murder in the name of Islam as a form of legitimate controlling governance).

If you can do so, I will bow down and admit that you're the smartest man alive.

Just one.

...

This request seems to have been overlooked by the Taliban defenders
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What a bullshit argument, Common Courtesy. While I do not want to defend the Taliban in any way, we have need only look at the tribal regions of Pakistan to get our answer. While we only have the undocumented contentions of just two and only two people in JOS and palehorse, that ALL Taliban see ANY female, they promptly whip out their rifles and shoot them in the Vagina. Ye haw. Given all the Taliban that the US occupation pushed into the Pakistani tribal regions regions, if what JOS and palehorse tell us are true, there should not be a single remaining female alive in all of Pakistan. Funny thing, the people of the Tribal regions reserve their outrage at US troops trying to invade them while no wholesale slaughters of Pakistani women get reported.

I also recall all those reports from Gulf war one to the effect that Iraqi troops invading Kuwait dumped premature Kuwaiti infants out of incubators to the floor in an orgy of brutality.

Sorry Common Courtesy, maybe you need to pay a little bit more attention to your own bullshit detectors that seem to be stuck on a power level of zero.

Son, Common is Airforce, he already knows that everything i've posted is true.

You lost this arguement the day you started defending these rapists and you calling me a child killer and such doesn't really do much, the likes of Common Courtesy know better, they are like me, not like you.

If you want to make more of a fool out of yourself, go right ahead (lol, like you need an invitation to make a fool out of yourself).
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Well , JOS, if I am a fool and think you are an retro idiot, you have done nothing to change may mind. I have only one dog in this fight, and that is the Afghan people, I do not think you or the Taliban is the answer.
By all means, delude on, until you get booted out once again

Just don't blame me when you do, I have cast pearls before swine, but its a modern British tradition 101, how to be a pighead and lose all popular support which is strong in you Brits, genius, simply genius, to lose so much smarter people built up over centuries with stupidity lately, is hardly the model I want my country to follow.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
Well , JOS, if I am a fool and think you are an retro idiot, you have done nothing to change may mind. I have only one dog in this fight, and that is the Afghan people, I do not think you or the Taliban is the answer.
By all means, delude on, until you get booted out once again

Just don't blame me when you do, I have cast pearls before swine, but its a modern British tradition 101, how to be a pighead and lose all popular support which is strong in you Brits, genius, simply genius, to lose so much smarter people built up over centuries with stupidity lately, is hardly the model I want my country to follow.

I have never blamed anyone but myself for my own actions, your claims that i have blamed others are ridiculous, in fact, you are ridiculous.

Motion for ban based on continous personal attacks including suggesting that i kill infants and use their heads as trophies.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
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Originally posted by: Lemon law

But you better be quick, if you want to mount that head of the three month old infant
Nato managed to kill with another air strike. It would look so good mounted in your trophy room. But in this heat it rots fast and your taxidermist may not be able to save it.

You are so fucked up it isnt even funny
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: Lemon law

But you better be quick, if you want to mount that head of the three month old infant
Nato managed to kill with another air strike. It would look so good mounted in your trophy room. But in this heat it rots fast and your taxidermist may not be able to save it.

You are so fucked up it isnt even funny


X2


Listening to LemonLaw talk about warfare, particularly in Afghanistan, just makes me shake my head. Hearing the nonsensical blubbering from partisan douchebags is one thing, but LL takes it to a whole new level of gross intellectual incompetence.

I would send him the unclassified PP brief I gave to my CI Soldiers before they went to Afghanistan back in October... it's an excellent primer. But it's 45 MB and wouldn't do a damn bit of good anyways.
 

Kuragami

Member
Jun 20, 2008
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Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: Lemon law

But you better be quick, if you want to mount that head of the three month old infant
Nato managed to kill with another air strike. It would look so good mounted in your trophy room. But in this heat it rots fast and your taxidermist may not be able to save it.

You are so fucked up it isnt even funny

What's fucked up is the kind of stuff soldiers do in the field in Iraq is not too far off from what he described and according to many it's systemic.

Which should be hardly a shock to shrinks who have some knowledge of what goes on over there. The stuff some of these soldiers describe is dehumanizing and it's a gradual loss in their normal sense of feeling for their fellow man if you will. I don't know how else to describe it.

If anyone here is a soldier you would be lying through your teeth if you said the military does not try to dehumanize you. It starts at boot camp and continues until you leave service. I'm not suggesting there is some sort of Psy-Ops program to make soldiers crazy killers. Rather it's the nature of the military system that perpetuates the ideals first implanted in your head in boot camp.

Combine that with the Hells of war and is it any surprise that going back as far as can be in recorded history armies have pillaged, raped and killed the innocent.

Why is it a shock to some that US soldiers are not suddenly any different from other Human beings from other times or other regions of the world? Humans there lived, loved their families and butchered each other just as easily as they do here. We are all Human and every one of us has a Hitler and a Jesus inside of us, as a smart man once said. You take away enough of the inhibitions from the best person you ever known and they can become something out of a nightmare.

Not everyone is the same and not everyone reacts to what happens in society and what goes on around us, but it's generally true to us all.

Having said all this I'm not giving a blank cheque excuse for all the horrible things people do in a war but I think before you either jump to defend or poor hate on people you need to at least understand the complexity and Human cost.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
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Originally posted by: Kuragami
Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: Lemon law

But you better be quick, if you want to mount that head of the three month old infant
Nato managed to kill with another air strike. It would look so good mounted in your trophy room. But in this heat it rots fast and your taxidermist may not be able to save it.

You are so fucked up it isnt even funny


.... If anyone here is a soldier you would be lying through your teeth if you said the military does not try to dehumanize you. It starts at boot camp and continues until you leave service. I'm not suggesting there is some sort of Psy-Ops program to make soldiers crazy killers. Rather it's the nature of the military system that perpetuates the ideals first implanted in your head in boot camp....

What? Can you be more specific about all this "dehumanizing" that occurs, starting in boot camp? What ideals are implanted, anyway?

BTW, we capitalize Soldier (when we aren't lying through our teeth :roll:)




 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
Palehorse sez---still waiting... remember, just one.

/cue Jeopardy music

I have given you plenty of reasons palehorse, you just don't believe any of them while you remain oblivious to Nato failures.

But you had better watch out for Karzai, he can get very decisive when he gets pissed. He has already dismissed three British envoys, and he may well demand the ouster of some Nato generals. As for the Nato occupation, it has made negative progress for six years, who know, Karzai might cut a deal with Pakistan and Iran to replace Nato troops. But in other news, at least England has promised another 120 million for Afghanistan. The Afghan army already has more troops than Nato and has plans to expand by 50%.

The winds of change are blowing, never say never. If Nato can't do the job, why should it not expect to be fired? At a minimum, expect more accountability.

Maybe you missed my challenge the first time around. Here, let me repeat it for all the folks who rode the short bus...

Your mission, should you have the balls and/or brains to accept it:

Please provide me with the name and disposition of one current member of the Taliban who does not fit the description I have given of their entire membership. (That is, each and every one of them advocates wanton rape and murder in the name of Islam as a form of legitimate "governance").

If you can do so, I will bow down and admit that you're the smartest man alive.

Just one.

If anything you've ever written on this subject were true, surely you could find one... no?!

As I said before, I think you'll need to leave your basement to answer this one...

You're summarily dismissed until you do.
 

Skyclad1uhm1

Lifer
Aug 10, 2001
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Originally posted by: hellokeith
Terrorists who hide among civilians are viable targets nonetheless. This is one reason why many northern afghan tribal leaders are providing more and more intel to coalition forces, because they are tired of the terrorists causing their people to get killed.

There are Al Qaida terrorists hiding in the US, waiting to strike.

Bomb, bomb, bomb the US! Nuke the US to kill those dozens of terrorists! (Those 300 million 'innocents' will be collateral damage, they should have stayed clear from an area with known terrorist in it, staying there is just a clear sign they are not that innocent after all)
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Although a little dated, this link may provide a different perspective on what the Taliban is and how the Afghan people regard them.

http://isaf.wordpress.com/2007...pation-of-afghanistan/

It just casts much doubt on palehorse's contention that he is greeting with love everywhere he goes.

The other thing that surprised me recently is the large number of shifting alliances in terms of the Taliban which is hardly the single movement JOS and palehorse try to portray. Nor is any simplistic invade the Tribal regions of Pakistan going to work because Taliban active support and fighters are well embedded in the various Stans to the North.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
Although a little dated, this link may provide a different perspective on what the Taliban is and how the Afghan people regard them.

http://isaf.wordpress.com/2007...pation-of-afghanistan/

It just casts much doubt on palehorse's contention that he is greeting with love everywhere he goes.

The other thing that surprised me recently is the large number of shifting alliances in terms of the Taliban which is hardly the single movement JOS and palehorse try to portray. Nor is any simplistic invade the Tribal regions of Pakistan going to work because Taliban active support and fighters are well embedded in the various Stans to the North.

That "article" you linked to is a fucking joke, right?

Just... one...

no?
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Although a little dated, this link may provide a different perspective on what the Taliban is and how the Afghan people regard them.

http://isaf.wordpress.com/2007...pation-of-afghanistan/

It just casts much doubt on palehorse's contention that he is greeting with love everywhere he goes.

The other thing that surprised me recently is the large number of shifting alliances in terms of the Taliban which is hardly the single movement JOS and palehorse try to portray. Nor is any simplistic invade the Tribal regions of Pakistan going to work because Taliban active support and fighters are well embedded in the various Stans to the North.

That "article" you linked to is a fucking joke, right?

Just... one...

no?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
No the article is no joke, I did not write it, I have run across many similar articles
I could post, and if you want to disagree with the conclusions of the writers, you should do so, but you are hardly being intellectually honest with yourself and others
by trying to dismiss it as a joke.

In terms of giving you names of Taliban fighters Nato has basically driven underground, its very difficult to name names. But I can give you the names of countless Taliban adherents who are fighting each other for control of various Tribal alliances. At this point in time, about the only thing that unites the Taliban is the presence of Nato troops they want to expel and the only reason the Taliban has any popular support is because they are seen as a cure to basic anarchy and corruption now present in Afghanistan. And any widening of the war would just widen the anarchy. Which in turn would increase Taliban support.

Only economic development and modernization will defeat the Taliban, its the reason the Taliban makes no headway in the modern parts of Pakistan, and if Nato would turn its forces toward reducing corruption and breaking the power of the war lords Nato inadvertently put in power, Nato could thereby both reduce Taliban support and increase its own.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Although a little dated, this link may provide a different perspective on what the Taliban is and how the Afghan people regard them.

http://isaf.wordpress.com/2007...pation-of-afghanistan/

It just casts much doubt on palehorse's contention that he is greeting with love everywhere he goes.

The other thing that surprised me recently is the large number of shifting alliances in terms of the Taliban which is hardly the single movement JOS and palehorse try to portray. Nor is any simplistic invade the Tribal regions of Pakistan going to work because Taliban active support and fighters are well embedded in the various Stans to the North.

That "article" you linked to is a fucking joke, right?

Just... one...

no?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
No the article is no joke, I did not write it, I have run across many similar articles
I could post, and if you want to disagree with the conclusions of the writers, you should do so, but you are hardly being intellectually honest with yourself and others
by trying to dismiss it as a joke.

In terms of giving you names of Taliban fighters Nato has basically driven underground, its very difficult to name names. But I can give you the names of countless Taliban adherents who are fighting each other for control of various Tribal alliances. At this point in time, about the only thing that unites the Taliban is the presence of Nato troops they want to expel and the only reason the Taliban has any popular support is because they are seen as a cure to basic anarchy and corruption now present in Afghanistan. And any widening of the war would just widen the anarchy. Which in turn would increase Taliban support.

Only economic development and modernization will defeat the Taliban, its the reason the Taliban makes no headway in the modern parts of Pakistan, and if Nato would turn its forces toward reducing corruption and breaking the power of the war lords Nato inadvertently put in power, Nato could thereby both reduce Taliban support and increase its own.

just... one.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
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Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Well , JOS, if I am a fool and think you are an retro idiot, you have done nothing to change may mind. I have only one dog in this fight, and that is the Afghan people, I do not think you or the Taliban is the answer.
By all means, delude on, until you get booted out once again

Just don't blame me when you do, I have cast pearls before swine, but its a modern British tradition 101, how to be a pighead and lose all popular support which is strong in you Brits, genius, simply genius, to lose so much smarter people built up over centuries with stupidity lately, is hardly the model I want my country to follow.

I have never blamed anyone but myself for my own actions, your claims that i have blamed others are ridiculous, in fact, you are ridiculous.

Motion for ban based on continous personal attacks including suggesting that i kill infants and use their heads as trophies.

Lemon law is one of the most demented partisans this board has had the displeasure of inviting in. That said, he is the face of the typical "liberal elite" and I encourage his continued presence here so that the more rational among us can get a good long look at how disturbed LL and his ilk really are.

Ban him? Oh hell no, bait him into posting more!
 

woodie1

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2000
5,947
0
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Originally posted by: Corn
Lemon law is one of the most demented partisans this board has had the displeasure of inviting in. That said, he is the face of the typical "liberal elite" and I encourage his continued presence here so that the more rational among us can get a good long look at how disturbed LL and his ilk really are.

Ban him? Oh hell no, bait him into posting more!

Right. His entertainment value alone is worth the price of admission.


 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
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Just one...:laugh:

palehorse thinks the intarweb is serious business.

Your challenge doesn't excuse your apologist nature.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Just one...:laugh:

palehorse thinks the intarweb is serious business.

Your challenge doesn't excuse your apologist nature.

:confused: That doesn't even make sense.

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Ok palehorse,

Try this one former taliban commander Salaaam.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t...sia/article4272711.ece

Remember, I asked you for the person's disposition as well. So, I made the most important word in your post bold to serve as your only clue.

still waiting for one... just one.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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palehorse, this is not about me jumping through your hoops, this is about the Taliban movement itself and how it can best be defeated. You look at it as a purely military problem and seem to ignore any people factors.
In all due respects, we share the same end goal, but your way will only lead to failure. At any rate, there are only a few months left of this summer's Taliban offensive, and we will see what policies our next President uses.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
palehorse, this is not about me jumping through your hoops, this is about the Taliban movement itself and how it can best be defeated. You look at it as a purely military problem and seem to ignore any people factors.
In all due respects, we share the same end goal, but your way will only lead to failure. At any rate, there are only a few months left of this summer's Taliban offensive, and we will see what policies our next President uses.

Don't ever use the words "in all due respect" with me again.

That said, I've never looked at it as a "purely military problem," and you g'damn well know that. I see the solution as multi-faceted, including the use of overwhelming military force.

Your problem is that you see it as a multi-faceted solution that excludes such military force.

Only one of us is blind to the truth and realities, and it ain't me.

Just one son... just one.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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In all due respects palehorse, I am not you son and you are wrong. Sadly, someone may put your ideas to the test, and then we will all be in trouble. While not enough people agree with me on P&N, many other thinkers do. May I remind you that Iraq was supposed to cost 50 billion tops and HAD in the past tense 90% support.

I am not going to jump through your hoops or play any of your silly games, I am here to remind others of the almost certain consequences of what you advocate.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
In all due respects palehorse, I am not you son and you are wrong. Sadly, someone may put your ideas to the test, and then we will all be in trouble. While not enough people agree with me on P&N, many other thinkers do. May I remind you that Iraq was supposed to cost 50 billion tops and HAD in the past tense 90% support.

I am not going to jump through your hoops or play any of your silly games, I am here to remind others of the almost certain consequences of what you advocate.
LOL... you know nothing... son.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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Ok, palehorse, lets put you to the test, how exactly will your plan work? How many troops is it going to take? And how are you going to tell the difference between Taliban and non Taliban people if you get into the Tribal areas of Pakistan. How do you prevent the Taliban from fleeing into the various Stans to the North or simply slipping right back into Afghanistan? Even if you can once again chase all Taliban away from Afghanistan, will you have the economic aid and development aid in place and ready to hit the ground running to properly exploit that expulsion?

And what if something goes wrong as your supply chain is very stretched. How long will you have to stay to achieve stability, or would you just be widening a quagmire?

Lay out your plan in detail in my challenge to you? Let us see what you know and how much is mere tin foil hat? As for me, I have been lied to by far more powerful men and woman than you? US President, Generals, congressmen, and defense Secretaries, they too hatched their own little tin foil hat over optimistic brainfarts, they too were cock sure they were right, and they ended up being proven wrong.

Please palehorse, lay your plan out in detail.