Open Call – It is Time to Fix or Replace the Republican Party

[ivwshane]

Hey, look!

It's michal1980!

He's here to say:

Libruls libruls libruls, libruls libruls. Libruls!

Yes, libruls support Obama and Democrats and ISIS.

Of course they support ISIS, because they hate them 'Murrica and love right-wing religious radicals!

Because Benghazi!

Up is down, left is right, and black is white, if you're a conservative.

He ain't a conservative, he's a righty. And yes there is a difference

 

[lotus503]

Hey, look!

It's michal1980!

He's here to say:

Libruls libruls libruls, libruls libruls. Libruls!

Yes, libruls support Obama and Democrats and ISIS.

Of course they support ISIS, because they hate them 'Murrica and love right-wing religious radicals!

Because Benghazi!

Up is down, left is right, and black is white, if you're a conservative.

The problem with picking an ideology is it requires that you subscribe not just to the good things about it but the shitty things too.

what is it about folks and their primal need to be part of a team?

 

[TheSlamma]

I'm of the opinion that lobby really runs government. I think both sides are screwed up in their own way and as long as our political and electoral system, is what it is, were not likely to see anything meaningful from any candidate or party regardless of what they say.

Its a broken system, that favors money and power. both parties are just different shades of the same oligarchy.

And the thing is we the people are to blame because we put up with this shit and allow it to continue.

Careful, you are "with them or against them" (Libs and Cons)

BTW I agree 100% so I'm "against them" too

 

[TheSlamma]

The problem with picking an ideology is it requires that you subscribe not just to the good things about it but the shitty things too.

what is it about folks and they primal need to be part of a team?

It is interesting isn't it?

It's funny cause it happens on so many levels too. From country support in things like the Olympics/World Cup down to 2 rival towns having brawls over high school football teams.

Then there are people that just have to feel the need to belong to something, club, frat, lodge etc. I've always thought it was a way of them getting assurance they are doing something right in their lives.

Have you noticed the trend when you read headlines about competing products these days? someone has to be "winning the brand war". Example: PS4 is "winning the console war".. there was a war? Android or iphone is "winning" the smartphone war. Every rival product now has a war and there MUST be a winner or a loser and you get shamed for buying the wrong product. We don't buy things for being a good product or the product that best fits the user anymore, just like we don't do for our politicians.

 

[lotus503]

It is interesting isn't it?

It's funny cause it happens on so many levels too. From country support in things like the Olympics/World Cup down to 2 rival towns having brawls over high school football teams.

Then there are people that just have to feel the need to belong to something. I've always thought it was a way of them getting assurance they are doing something right in their lives.

Have you noticed the trend when you read headlines about competing products these days? someone has to be "winning the brand war". Example: PS4 is "winning the console war".. there was a war? Android or iphone is "winning" the smartphone war. Every rival product now has a war and there MUST be a winner or a loser.

Marketing overall is just another way to say human manipulation, yet were totally cool with it.

Bizarre

 

[Moonbeam]

so then you continue on to the endless loop that is based on least worst and who can beat who.

As long as you don't wonder why nothing ever really changes then hey, mission accomplished for you.

edit: I'm glad you are admitting you vote based on fear also, that is a big thing to admit. Normally the "fear" votes are reserved just for Fox news viewers.

Are you really that lacking in comprehension or is it that simple truth is too much for you to handle. I do not continue the endless loop any more than you do. You can't seem to understand that the problem is systemic and unfixable without a Constitutional amendment and that won't change even if you blather till the end of time. The result of that inevitable fact is that the only option for a sane mind is to vote for the lesser evil and that the possibility of not voting for the lesser evil means that a Bush disaster can happen again. You and your stupid belief in a change that will never happen are an danger to the nation and it is totally rational to fear real danger.

A third party vote is a vote for the greater evil because there are only a limited supply of morons who would fuck their country out of spite. The level of your irrationality is terrifying. Go eat some worms if you hate yourself that much. It was pie in the sky idiot dreamers that shoved George Bush up our asses.

 

[TheSlamma]

Are you really that lacking in comprehension or is it that simple truth is too much for you to handle. I do not continue the endless loop any more than you do. You can't seem to understand that the problem is systemic and unfixable without a Constitutional amendment and that won't change even if you blather till the end of time. The result of that inevitable fact is that the only option for a sane mind is to vote for the lesser evil and that the possibility of not voting for the lesser evil means that a Bush disaster can happen again. You and your stupid belief in a change that will never happen are an danger to the nation and it is totally rational to fear real danger.

A third party vote is a vote for the greater evil because there are only a limited supply of morons who would fuck their country out of spite. The level of your irrationality is terrifying. Go eat some worms if you hate yourself that much. It was pie in the sky idiot dreamers that shoved George Bush up our asses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrNfHFYf6eU

So just keep the same wheel turning? now that's progress.

You say it's out of spite, but it's out of wanting to actually see the middle class get one ounce of representation out of Washington before I die. I voted for Obama and didn't get any of that so far. I said it before and I'll say it again, you have a with us or against us mentality that is narrow minded, uninspired and just gives you a vehicle for blame. That is why guys like you don't show up in the TPP threads or any of the others where Obama has implemented policies that help the rich and corporations out. Bias has made you blind as a bat and Moonie, all your drunk philosophy talk doesn't fool anyone, you are average at best and just vote and go with what your corporate sponsored party tells you to go with.

 

[werepossum]

I'm of the opinion that lobby really runs government. I think both sides are screwed up in their own way and as long as our political and electoral system, is what it is, were not likely to see anything meaningful from any candidate or party regardless of what they say.

Its a broken system, that favors money and power. both parties are just different shades of the same oligarchy.

And the thing is we the people are to blame because we put up with this shit and allow it to continue.

This, exactly. And well said.

Marketing overall is just another way to say human manipulation, yet were totally cool with it.

Bizarre

Personally I'm fine with marketing. Sell me whatever you can sell me. Problem is lobbying - they market to Congresscritters, who make my choices for me. Unfortunately I don't really see an option out of this - we'll never get the money out of politics when government is so big and powerful, and if government was actually reduced to the point that big money didn't feel the need to buy Congresscritters, then it would not be able to sustain a modern, first world society. (Or at least, not one that would well serve most of its citizens.) However, we can certainly vote for the best candidate in the primary rather than who we think can win, and assuming we get the same old same old, vote third party or write-in. Very few of us can ante up sufficiently to have either party give a damn about what we want, but we can at least not give them our votes for another piece of lying crap.

 

[lotus503]

This, exactly. And well said.


Personally I'm fine with marketing. Sell me whatever you can sell me. Problem is lobbying - they market to Congresscritters, who make my choices for me. Unfortunately I don't really see an option out of this - we'll never get the money out of politics when government is so big and powerful, and if government was actually reduced to the point that big money didn't feel the need to buy Congresscritters, then it would not be able to sustain a modern, first world society. (Or at least, not one that would well serve most of its citizens.) However, we can certainly vote for the best candidate in the primary rather than who we think can win, and assuming we get the same old same old, vote third party or write-in. Very few of us can ante up sufficiently to have either party give a damn about what we want, but we can at least not give them our votes for another piece of lying crap.

I'm involved with marketing and think when it comes to goods or services it can be OK. I still ditched my Cable TV provider over 6 years ago because I want have the constant stream of it in my house. This years election cycle will see much marketing via TV ads etc. It will be one big manipulative shit show.

I think if we publicly finance campaigns we deal a serious blow to lobby and systemic corruption.

The fact billions will be spent in this election cycle is sickening, the fact only folks who can raise that money get heard is sickening.

The fact SCOTUS determined corporate money is speech, is sickening.

The fact that the citizens of this country accept this stuff as normal practice is the most sickening.

 

[nickqt]

This, exactly. And well said.


Personally I'm fine with marketing. Sell me whatever you can sell me. Problem is lobbying - they market to Congresscritters, who make my choices for me. Unfortunately I don't really see an option out of this - we'll never get the money out of politics when government is so big and powerful, and if government was actually reduced to the point that big money didn't feel the need to buy Congresscritters, then it would not be able to sustain a modern, first world society. (Or at least, not one that would well serve most of its citizens.) However, we can certainly vote for the best candidate in the primary rather than who we think can win, and assuming we get the same old same old, vote third party or write-in. Very few of us can ante up sufficiently to have either party give a damn about what we want, but we can at least not give them our votes for another piece of lying crap.

Getting money out of politics doesn't change on the size of government. You think some small government dictatorship isn't bought and paid for by the oligarchs in their country?

The whole "small v. big" government thing is just a smoke and mirror show.

Instead of focusing on the amount of bureaucrats and representatives who make up the "government(s)", take a look at the candidates and what they say and then do. Unfortunately, most people don't ever look. They get told what their team believes and then simply repeat it, over and over until the words no longer make any sense for anyone who is actually looking at what is going on. The disconnect happens when people are looking, but still repeating their team's talking points. Hilarity ensues for people who are apolitical and don't care. For those of us who do care, it's frustration.

The US has 300 Million people. The whole "small government" thing is a non sequitur. The whole system of "checks and balances", with county, city, state, and a Federal government was established to create various checks, i.e. governments, that check each other. Not just the three branches checking each other, but various governments. Various governments = "big" government.

Limiting ourselves to two parties, neither of which want to upset the status quo, is the main problem. And how do the two major parties limit it to two major parties? The election process.

So, first things first, the election process needs to change. A better system than first-past-the-post opens things up for third parties, never mind the size of the government, or the amount of representatives in the government(s).

Until we change the first-past-the-post system, 3d parties are going to be spoilers for one of the two major parties, and spoiling things isn't particularly helpful when one of the two major parties still get the helm afterwards.

 

[JSt0rm]

I appoint myself to sit on the death pane... I mean council to oversee the transition into a more responsible party.

 

[realibrad]

Getting money out of politics doesn't change on the size of government. You think some small government dictatorship isn't bought and paid for by the oligarchs in their country?

The whole "small v. big" government thing is just a smoke and mirror show.

...

Limiting the size of government limits the size of their power. So, if you have a small government with few powers, it does not hurt as much when they get bought vs a large government with more power.

The reason so much money is in politics is because its money well spent for corporate interests. Why compete on the market when you can force the market to bend to your will?

If you have a large government, then its going to have power to force people to do things that might not be best. The farm lobby has massive power, and represent a very small part of the economy. They are well organized and have money. Politically they are way over represented. If the government were not as large, the farm industry would not be able to force people to pay them through the government.

 

[nickqt]

Limiting the size of government limits the size of their power. So, if you have a small government with few powers, it does not hurt as much when they get bought vs a large government with more power.

The reason so much money is in politics is because its money well spent for corporate interests. Why compete on the market when you can force the market to bend to your will?

If you have a large government, then its going to have power to force people to do things that might not be best. The farm lobby has massive power, and represent a very small part of the economy. They are well organized and have money. Politically they are way over represented. If the government were not as large, the farm industry would not be able to force people to pay them through the government.

Limiting the size of government limits the size of their power? So a dictator has their power limited since there aren't a bunch of representatives, judges, and other governmental actors that can check the dictator?

Smoke and mirrors.

Money is in politics because the laws allow it. The laws exist because we can't get rid of the politicians who write the laws because the system benefits the incumbent and the two big teams we're limited to choose from. We're limited to two big teams because we use a first-past-the-post electoral system.

 

[werepossum]

Limiting the size of government limits the size of their power. So, if you have a small government with few powers, it does not hurt as much when they get bought vs a large government with more power.

The reason so much money is in politics is because its money well spent for corporate interests. Why compete on the market when you can force the market to bend to your will?

If you have a large government, then its going to have power to force people to do things that might not be best. The farm lobby has massive power, and represent a very small part of the economy. They are well organized and have money. Politically they are way over represented. If the government were not as large, the farm industry would not be able to force people to pay them through the government.

That plus a smaller, less powerful government is less of a threat to corporations. Today's federal government routinely writes winners and losers into laws. That is a legitimate threat, and management has a fiduciary duty to stockholders to mitigate that threat and maximize profit. Problem is that a government small and limited enough to not threaten corporations probably can't police those corporations.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm of the opinion that lobby really runs government. I think both sides are screwed up in their own way and as long as our political and electoral system, is what it is, were not likely to see anything meaningful from any candidate or party regardless of what they say.

Its a broken system, that favors money and power. both parties are just different shades of the same oligarchy.

And the thing is we the people are to blame because we put up with this shit and allow it to continue.

Meh. You ignore real differences in the parties' respective bases & what they want, also the different financial forces shaping the parties. A handful of radical right billionaires have shaped the Repub party. That can't be said of Dems.

The only time that our political system hasn't favored money & power was during the New Deal era.

 

[lotus503]

Meh. You ignore real differences in the parties' respective bases & what they want, also the different financial forces shaping the parties. A handful of radical right billionaires have shaped the Repub party. That can't be said of Dems.

The only time that our political system hasn't favored money & power was during the New Deal era.

Its not that I ignore the real differences, its that I find them less consequential to the things we should be focusing on and how government should operate.

Who went after wall street crooks? NO ONE that's who!

Who reformed banking to ensure crap cant happen again? On right NO ONE!

Who has stifled American Imperialism? Oh Right NO ONE!

Who has stopped the stupid Drug War? Oh Right NO ONE!

Who is standing up to the military industrial complex? Oh Right NO ONE!

Who is standing up to the prison complex? Oh Right NO ONE!

I could go on and on and on. But i'm just supposed to give a shit about marriage equality , the ACA (Which is a shit sandwich BTW, compared to single payer system) and abortion.

 

[TheSlamma]

Meh. You ignore real differences in the parties' respective bases & what they want,

Does your party support Civil Asset Forfeiture? <-- I knew he could never reply to this

also the different financial forces shaping the parties. A handful of radical right billionaires have shaped the Repub party. That can't be said of Dems.

like Tom Stayer and Kat Taylor for example?

 

[Jhhnn]

Its not that I ignore the real differences, its that I find them less consequential to the things we should be focusing on and how government should operate.

Who went after wall street crooks? NO ONE that's who!

Who reformed banking to ensure crap cant happen again? On right NO ONE!

Who has stifled American Imperialism? Oh Right NO ONE!

Who has stopped the stupid Drug War? Oh Right NO ONE!

Who is standing up to the military industrial complex? Oh Right NO ONE!

Who is standing up to the prison complex? Oh Right NO ONE!

I could go on and on and on. But i'm just supposed to give a shit about marriage equality , the ACA (Which is a shit sandwich BTW, compared to single payer system) and abortion.

Nice rant.

You usually seem to be a rational person, so I suggest that you acknowledge the progress made.

Dodd-Frank isn't nothing.

We've confined our imperialism to airstrikes, material support & the drone war. We extricated our ground forces from Iraq & are in the same process in Afghanistan. We're in talks with Iran that may bear fruit. We certainly haven't engaged in the monumental stupidity of sending troops to Ukraine as Repubs have suggested.

When CO & WA voted for marijuana legalization the Obama Admin went along with it & has supported legalization every place that the people voted for it.

In the extortion attempt that led to the sequester, Dems insisted that cuts in domestic spending be matched by cuts in military spending.

The Obama Admin has championed sentencing reform.

For millions of Americans & potentially more, the "shit sandwich" of the ACA is vastly preferable to the nothing they could previously afford.

It's not where I'd like to be, but none of it is in the wrong direction. I think we can agree that Repub proposals aren't that at all.

 

[lotus503]

Nice rant.

You usually seem to be a rational person, so I suggest that you acknowledge the progress made.

Dodd-Frank isn't nothing. - Yeah its pretty much nothing, I worked for 9 years in the financial regulated industry Dodd frank hasn't done anything to solve the problem

We've confined our imperialism to airstrikes, material support & the drone war. We extricated our ground forces from Iraq & are in the same process in Afghanistan. We're in talks with Iran that may bear fruit. We certainly haven't engaged in the monumental stupidity of sending troops to Ukraine as Repubs have suggested. We have bases in like 60+ countries Naw American Imperialism is alive and well even if we pulled ground troops from the last two wars.

When CO & WA voted for marijuana legalization the Obama Admin went along with it & has supported legalization every place that the people voted for it. This is some progress I will concede this

In the extortion attempt that led to the sequester, Dems insisted that cuts in domestic spending be matched by cuts in military spending. All posturing BS

The Obama Admin has championed sentencing reform. True this I will concede

For millions of Americans & potentially more, the "shit sandwich" of the ACA is vastly preferable to the nothing they could previously afford. True but if our political system functioned properly we could have done much better.

It's not where I'd like to be, but none of it is in the wrong direction. I think we can agree that Repub proposals aren't that at all.

Responses in Bold.

My main point is the system is broken both sides are nearly the same even though there are some differences, whats actually legislated is weak version of what should be, because the system is broken.

 

[Moonbeam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrNfHFYf6eU

So just keep the same wheel turning? now that's progress.

You say it's out of spite, but it's out of wanting to actually see the middle class get one ounce of representation out of Washington before I die. I voted for Obama and didn't get any of that so far. I said it before and I'll say it again, you have a with us or against us mentality that is narrow minded, uninspired and just gives you a vehicle for blame. That is why guys like you don't show up in the TPP threads or any of the others where Obama has implemented policies that help the rich and corporations out. Bias has made you blind as a bat and Moonie, all your drunk philosophy talk doesn't fool anyone, you are average at best and just vote and go with what your corporate sponsored party tells you to go with.

Pissed off idealist having an emotional tantrum..... I am not keeping the same wheel turning, you are, by voting dangerously so I have to protect myself from your insanity. There is NO NO NO NO NO NO possibility that a third party under the present system will ever be elected. You can't accept that the situation is hopeless that there is only one way to vote and that is for the least evil of two possibilities, You will never get me to waste my vote where danger exists because you are nuts. The system is broken. It will not fix itself by voting within it. There must either be a popular uprising that tears down the system by force, it won't change from within and the only legal way that can happen is by a Constitutional Convention. Do you know what the chances of that are? That is what you have to make happen. The system is broken. Nothing else will work. Only a popular demand for a constitutional convention can fix the broken system. Wake up. The system is broken and can't be fixed by voting third party because no third party can ever win against the system. You simply keep things as they are by dreaming silly dreams. Piss all you fucking want but you lose. Go ahead and continue to screech.

All your votes are belong to the machine. Go have Franz Kafka for breakfast.

 

[Moonbeam]

Responses in Bold.

My main point is the system is broken both sides are nearly the same even though there are some differences, whats actually legislated is weak version of what should be, because the system is broken.

You Bush was slightly different than Gore, in your dreams and trillions later. Jesus Christ.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Go to any Isis thread. You do nothing but sympathize with them. Everyone but you can see it.

Put up or shut up.

btw, Gov. Haley is still waiting to hear if you agree with what Ann Coulter said about her. She doesn't understand why this is such a hard question for you to answer.

 

[sao123]

I agree, it is absolutely time to replace the republican party...

with a real Christian Party, with a real backbone.
Time to turn this nation around back to its Christian roots and heritage.

I want a party with no compromise and set right a hundred years of inexcusable secularization and bastardization of our government by the left.

Only as a Christian Nation will this nation survive the next century.

 

[TheSlamma]

Pissed off idealist having an emotional tantrum..... I am not keeping the same wheel turning, you are, by voting dangerously so I have to protect myself from your insanity. There is NO NO NO NO NO NO possibility that a third party under the present system will ever be elected. You can't accept that the situation is hopeless that there is only one way to vote and that is for the least evil of two possibilities, You will never get me to waste my vote where danger exists because you are nuts. The system is broken. It will not fix itself by voting within it. There must either be a popular uprising that tears down the system by force, it won't change from within and the only legal way that can happen is by a Constitutional Convention. Do you know what the chances of that are? That is what you have to make happen. The system is broken. Nothing else will work. Only a popular demand for a constitutional convention can fix the broken system. Wake up. The system is broken and can't be fixed by voting third party because no third party can ever win against the system. You simply keep things as they are by dreaming silly dreams. Piss all you fucking want but you lose. Go ahead and continue to screech.

All your votes are belong to the machine. Go have Franz Kafka for breakfast.

My votes belong to the machine? Talk about self hate, no little pimple, YOUR votes belong to the machine, no wonder you are so mad.

 

[Hugo Drax]

The republican party is pretty much DOA.