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OpEd: Conservatives Vow To Become 'Suicide Voters'
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Siddhartha
Lifer
Every thread concerning the Republicans running for their nomination exhibit a lot of hate for the candidates. Is there a shining Republican white knight that can bring the party together?
Lemon law
Lifer
The CADsortaGuy delusion is here--And at some point us Conservatives have to stop letting the wishywashy "center" take over the mantle of "Conservatism" when they don't hold true to the ideals... ...especially after Bush...
As the definition of conservatism moves ever towards the right, conservatives are always free to uphold their ideals but cannot win elections without reaching out to more moderate elements of the GOP. Politics is about building coalitions and bring positive results. CADsortaGUY is a day late and a dollar short on both counts.
Especially since more moderate elements of the GOP now see the dangers of what "conservatives" have wrought under GWB.
Why someone like Chuck Hagel did not make a run for the GOP nomination baffles me. And anyone who thinks McCain is anything but a conservative is nutso IMHO.
Since when is the modern version of conservatism and the classic definition of pragmatic mutually exclusive?
As the definition of conservatism moves ever towards the right, conservatives are always free to uphold their ideals but cannot win elections without reaching out to more moderate elements of the GOP. Politics is about building coalitions and bring positive results. CADsortaGUY is a day late and a dollar short on both counts.
Especially since more moderate elements of the GOP now see the dangers of what "conservatives" have wrought under GWB.
Why someone like Chuck Hagel did not make a run for the GOP nomination baffles me. And anyone who thinks McCain is anything but a conservative is nutso IMHO.
Since when is the modern version of conservatism and the classic definition of pragmatic mutually exclusive?
I find this extremely amusing, just like hearing Rush rant and rave and foam at the mouth today after his guy got crushed and the guy he treats with disdain routed him. The whining, the crying... classic!
Bottom line, right-wing zealots don't like McCain because he doesn't walk in lock-step with the right wing. That's a good thing in my book. Rush was ranting about how McCain believes in the whole "global warming hoax". Newsflash: the vast majority of people know GW is an issue that needs attention, only the fringe right wing do not. No candidate who agrees with the right wing mentality 100% (such as what Rush and Hannity etc want) has *any* chance of winning a general election. Deal with it.
Bottom line, right-wing zealots don't like McCain because he doesn't walk in lock-step with the right wing. That's a good thing in my book. Rush was ranting about how McCain believes in the whole "global warming hoax". Newsflash: the vast majority of people know GW is an issue that needs attention, only the fringe right wing do not. No candidate who agrees with the right wing mentality 100% (such as what Rush and Hannity etc want) has *any* chance of winning a general election. Deal with it.
PokerGuy, Rush is right about the global warming snake-oil, and McCain buying in to it.
He's already said he wants to impose numerous restrictions on Detroit to improve fuel efficiency and stop global warming.
Rush was also right that the nomination of McCain will be the end of the Republican Party as we know it.
He's already said he wants to impose numerous restrictions on Detroit to improve fuel efficiency and stop global warming.
Rush was also right that the nomination of McCain will be the end of the Republican Party as we know it.
Fern
Elite Member
Oh, this is such BS. Clearly you're not paying attention to the polls.
Border control is listed as #2 on the Repub voters list of concerns, and #1 on the list of Repubs who define themselves as most conservative. It's got little or nothing to do with the RR or evangelicals, who are mostly voting for Huckabee anyway.
IT'S BORDER CONTROL.
IMO, the Repubs have never had a candidate from the outset that meshes well with their various voting blocks. Romney looks way too slick, a Northerner with a Harvard MBA. He was never gonna sell well in the South, a critical voting block for the Repubs. A Baptist preacher? Well, he'll get the RR/evangelicals but no other Repub factions (fiscal conservatives, border control, strong military etc). McCain, basically a moderate Dem but hawkish, is picking up more the liberal Repubs in the NE & CA plus some (his home) Western states. He's beating his "war hero" thingy to death, that's helping him some among certain demographics too.
The only chance I see for a Repub victory is an HRC nomination, especialy if Obama is cheated in the Dem convention.
Fern
I'm a conservative and I'm completely disappointed with the inability of the Republican party to produce a single decent POTUS candidate this year. I'm also pretty unimpressed with what the Democrats have offered up, two inexperienced senators who's primary appeal to the voters is their race or gender tied to a vague "you can't do much worse" message to voters. At this point I plan to write-in my own candidate and for president and focus on donating and volunteering to help Michell Bachman retain her seat locally.
This Republican movement to the left ever since the Clinton administration to try and capture conservative democrats and/or undecided voters rather than sticking with the principals on which the party is founded has been a total flop (2006 should have been a wake up call). Reagan got it right when he dug in his heels and stuck to the core conservative Republican message, even when the press hammered him for it. His message resonated with the reclusive but numerous base in addition to a lot of conservative Democrats or undecided voters and re-energized the party in the 80's.
I don't know why the modern Republican party leadership doesn't get it, but I expect the message will be pretty clear if November's election is the next Republican blood bath most of us are expecting. Just because the core Democrat platform seem to be pushing farther to the left doesn't mean the Republican base wants to move the same direction.
Whoozyerdaddy
Lifer
Don't be so quick to pull that trigger... Obama is claiming a delegate lead after yesterday and he has all the momentum right now. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8358.html
There are other varying estimates out there but they all look more or less the same. Obama was looking to get ass handed to him a month ago. Yesterday he more or less split the pot 50/50 and his poll numbers continue to rise while Hillary's coninue to drop. Anything can happen but there is nothing out there to suggest that Hill is going to win this thing right now.
Who was more 'conservative', Bill Clinton or George Bush?
Clinton had a large effort led by Al Gore to review government efficiency and cut costs, while Bush has skyrocketed the size of government.
Clinton had relatively small military interventions with few casualties, while Bush has broken his word not to 'nation build' and spent huge sums and committed the US to combat.
Clinton not only balanced the budget, he did so by getting rid of huge deficits; Bush went back to huge deficits.
Clinton supported broad deregulation from the telecomm industry to free trade agreements, and greatly reduced welfare. Bush also pushed free trade, but increased medicare spending by hundreds of billions in order to use the cover of Medicare to funnel taxpayer dollars to the biggest Republican donors.
Is your claim that you would be a fool to vote for the husband of the man who balanced budgets, and gave the Republicans a lot of what they wanted, rational, or ideological?
Me too. I'm glad in the sense that it helps 'my side' have a better chance, but I'm worried that one of the two major parties has had really pathetic candidates.
At least they settled on the merely 'really bad' candidate, the best of the bunch compared to the simple disasters.
They offered up plenty of experienced white guys - Edwards, Kucinich, Biden, and others, but the voters didn't pick them. You might to to reconsider their only appeal is gender/race.
I see you're one of the Reagan revisionists, even if I do agree with you that he galvanized the right wing and moved the country to the right (that's a bad thing, IMO).
Were those core Republican policies of his when he greatly expanded government and set the nation on the road to the huge debt he started? Were they when he had a foreign policy that largely abandoned the nation's principles for liberty and human rights and illegally sold missile to Iran for hostages to fund a terrorist army in Central America and supported the death squads of right-wing Central American thugs? Were they when he was reckless with the marines invading Lebanon, then pulling out when they were bombed - one of the key events that persuaded Osama bin Laden, reportedly, along with Somalia that the US could easily be driven out of places with an attack? Was it his allowing people to increase government secrecy and reducing the oversight of the public? Was it his having a huge tax increase because the tax cut went too far (which I'd defend him on, but doesn't make him the poster child for digging in his heels as a conservative)? Was it his signing of the amensty for illegal immigrants?
Reagan was a disastrous president and very different than the revisionists paint him as.
He wasn't even all that popular in office; the impeached Clinton beats him there. But he is a fictionalized figure for Republican propaganda, much like the movies' fictional "Wild West".
I don't know why the modern Republican party leadership doesn't get it, but I expect the message will be pretty clear if November's election is the next Republican blood bath most of us are expecting. Just because the core Democrat platform seem to be pushing farther to the left doesn't mean the Republican base wants to move the same direction.
[/quote]
The democrats are disappointingly moving to the RIGHT, from Bill Clinton forward - we lost a good chance with Kucinich and Edwards to put in place good policies.
Now the leading 'democrat' has a long record of being a *Wal-Mart* director and a pro-corporate attorney.
Perhaps the only thing clear now is that the righties and lefties will each be disappointed in whoever the next president is, if Obama doesn't win.
DealMonkey
Lifer
I don't hate anyone, Cad. The issue is that I just can't appreciate or support any of Bush's policies other than tax cuts and perhaps his decision to go into Afghanistan. The rest of his legacy is simply clouded by poor decision-making, failed policies and lame initiatives.
I'm not sure about that. I think they're both moving towards the center. If you mean the Dems as a whole are trending further right, I suppose so, but they're miles from the Right.
The scariest thing with McCain is that the guy is already leaning heavily left. You usually don't do that until General Election time, in an effort to appeal to a wider audience. Will he go even further?
jonks
Lifer
To the Reps who will sit out when McCain becomes the nominee, I hope Hillary wins, institutes mandatory universal health care and appoints 3 young liberal supreme court justices who will profoundly oppose your party's agenda for decades to come.
To the Dems who will sit out if Hillary gets the nomination, I hope McCain selects Huckabee as his VP, drops dead, and President Huckabee then rechristens the country the Christian States of America, puts Jesus on the 1 dollar bill, issues an executive order banning abortions except in the case where the fetus is determined to have the gay gene, for which he then mandates partial birth abortions.
Grow up. Fight for your candidate to get the nomination. If s/he doesn't win, pick who you think is best for you and the country in the general. Participate in the democracy, don't bail out when you don't get your way.
To the Dems who will sit out if Hillary gets the nomination, I hope McCain selects Huckabee as his VP, drops dead, and President Huckabee then rechristens the country the Christian States of America, puts Jesus on the 1 dollar bill, issues an executive order banning abortions except in the case where the fetus is determined to have the gay gene, for which he then mandates partial birth abortions.
Grow up. Fight for your candidate to get the nomination. If s/he doesn't win, pick who you think is best for you and the country in the general. Participate in the democracy, don't bail out when you don't get your way.
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