OpEd: Conservatives Vow To Become 'Suicide Voters'

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: sirjonk
To the Reps who will sit out when McCain becomes the nominee, I hope Hillary wins, institutes mandatory universal health care and appoints 3 young liberal supreme court justices who will profoundly oppose your party's agenda for decades to come.

To the Dems who will sit out if Hillary gets the nomination, I hope McCain selects Huckabee as his VP, drops dead, and President Huckabee then rechristens the country the Christian States of America, puts Jesus on the 1 dollar bill, issues an executive order banning abortions except in the case where the fetus is determined to have the gay gene, for which he then mandates partial birth abortions.

Dear God, both of the above scenarios are quite plausible. And they're both scary as hell.

lol

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: sirjonk
To the Reps who will sit out when McCain becomes the nominee, I hope Hillary wins, institutes mandatory universal health care and appoints 3 young liberal supreme court justices who will profoundly oppose your party's agenda for decades to come.

To the Dems who will sit out if Hillary gets the nomination, I hope McCain selects Huckabee as his VP, drops dead, and President Huckabee then rechristens the country the Christian States of America, puts Jesus on the 1 dollar bill, issues an executive order banning abortions except in the case where the fetus is determined to have the gay gene, for which he then mandates partial birth abortions.

Dear God, both of the above scenarios are quite plausible. And they're both scary as hell.

Eh I have a feeling that if either scenario plays out it will just be for 1 term and nothing will get done.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: loki8481
at some point, these so-called conservatives need to realize that they can't just abandon the center of their party if they want to have any say in how this country is governed.

And at some point us Conservatives have to stop letting the wishywashy "center" take over the mantle of "Conservatism" when they don't hold true to the ideals... ...especially after Bush...

Ideals? What "ideals" does the Republican party have anymore? Endless war? Intrusive government? Deficit spending? Tax increases? Ignoring immigration?

Sorry, but the Democrats can provide those and do a better job of it. The current Republican party is useless to this country.

Re-read my post. I did not mention the words "Republican party" anywhere in that post.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Nebor
It's too late for that. He's the nominee. So threats really don't matter anymore. And you'd pretty much be a fool to vote for HRC over McCain if you're a conservative. I'm hopeful that McCain can simply maintain the status quo.

Who was more 'conservative', Bill Clinton or George Bush?

Clinton had a large effort led by Al Gore to review government efficiency and cut costs, while Bush has skyrocketed the size of government.

Clinton had relatively small military interventions with few casualties, while Bush has broken his word not to 'nation build' and spent huge sums and committed the US to combat.

Clinton not only balanced the budget, he did so by getting rid of huge deficits; Bush went back to huge deficits.

Clinton supported broad deregulation from the telecomm industry to free trade agreements, and greatly reduced welfare. Bush also pushed free trade, but increased medicare spending by hundreds of billions in order to use the cover of Medicare to funnel taxpayer dollars to the biggest Republican donors.

Is your claim that you would be a fool to vote for the husband of the man who balanced budgets, and gave the Republicans a lot of what they wanted, rational, or ideological?

Clinton is definitely more conservative. I think a lot of republicans admired Bill Clinton for being a concensus builder, and a moderate on most issues. I'd say is only failure was dismantling our military, though GHWB started that. Personally, I always considered Bill Clinton a conservative, and an honorary republican. He was a DINO from a southern state.

Electing his wife, who is an absolute moonbat, has nothing to do with him. She's an out and out socialist.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Pabster
No, shinerburke, I'm tired of being told to just live with the nominee because he can get independents and some from the other side. McCain is a liberal on most every critical issue of our time, save defense. He's for open borders, global warming taxes and regulations, and a host of other ideals espoused by Democrats, not Republicans.

You may think I'm alone, but rest assured, I'm not.

The OP is accurate. You do not stand alone. If I am forced to vote for Democratic values, then they shall belong to the Democratic Party and I will use my vote to send those values back there.

The Republican Party will either adopt conservatism or die.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Pabster
No, shinerburke, I'm tired of being told to just live with the nominee because he can get independents and some from the other side. McCain is a liberal on most every critical issue of our time, save defense. He's for open borders, global warming taxes and regulations, and a host of other ideals espoused by Democrats, not Republicans.

You may think I'm alone, but rest assured, I'm not.

The OP is accurate. You do not stand alone. If I am forced to vote for Democratic values, then they shall belong to the Democratic Party and I will use my vote to send those values back there.

The Republican Party will either adopt conservatism or die.

Open borders is a Republican priority, going back to your hero, Ronald Reagan, who legalized millions of illegal aliens. Twenty years of Republicans in the white house, and they have done nothing to stop illegal immigration. John McCain is just another in a long line.

 

[jpeyton]

Doesn't matter either way. Either Obama or HRC will be elected as the next POTUS; the Republican party is too split and too immobilized to win this election. Anyone here want to make a friendly wager? $100? $1000?

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
To the Reps who will sit out when McCain becomes the nominee, I hope Hillary wins, institutes mandatory universal health care and appoints 3 young liberal supreme court justices who will profoundly oppose your party's agenda for decades to come.

[...]

Grow up. Fight for your candidate to get the nomination. If s/he doesn't win, pick who you think is best for you and the country in the general. Participate in the democracy, don't bail out when you don't get your way.

No kidding. I don't care much for the Huckster, but I had to laugh when he said all the conservative pundits need to lay off the caffeine.

Watching these people pitch a fit does make for interesting politics though.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
To the Reps who will sit out when McCain becomes the nominee, I hope Hillary wins, institutes mandatory universal health care and appoints 3 young liberal supreme court justices who will profoundly oppose your party's agenda for decades to come.

To the Dems who will sit out if Hillary gets the nomination, I hope McCain selects Huckabee as his VP, drops dead, and President Huckabee then rechristens the country the Christian States of America, puts Jesus on the 1 dollar bill, issues an executive order banning abortions except in the case where the fetus is determined to have the gay gene, for which he then mandates partial birth abortions.

LOL! The truly funny thing is that conservatives are more afraid of your first scenario (universal health care) than your second one.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: sirjonk
To the Reps who will sit out when McCain becomes the nominee, I hope Hillary wins, institutes mandatory universal health care and appoints 3 young liberal supreme court justices who will profoundly oppose your party's agenda for decades to come.

[...]

Grow up. Fight for your candidate to get the nomination. If s/he doesn't win, pick who you think is best for you and the country in the general. Participate in the democracy, don't bail out when you don't get your way.

No kidding. I don't care much for the Huckster, but I had to laugh when he said all the conservative pundits need to lay off the caffeine.

Watching these people pitch a fit does make for interesting politics though.

Hehe, that was a pretty good line. Honestly, I actually like Huckabee...I think he's a good guy. I would never, EVER, in a million years vote for him, but he seems much more decent than a lot of the idiots running for office today. It's just too bad he's a religious conservative.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
It's just too bad he's a dangerous religious extremist.

Fixed.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
The CADsortaGuy delusion is here--And at some point us Conservatives have to stop letting the wishywashy "center" take over the mantle of "Conservatism" when they don't hold true to the ideals... ...especially after Bush...

As the definition of conservatism moves ever towards the right, conservatives are always free to uphold their ideals but cannot win elections without reaching out to more moderate elements of the GOP. Politics is about building coalitions and bring positive results. CADsortaGUY is a day late and a dollar short on both counts.

Especially since more moderate elements of the GOP now see the dangers of what "conservatives" have wrought under GWB.

Why someone like Chuck Hagel did not make a run for the GOP nomination baffles me. And anyone who thinks McCain is anything but a conservative is nutso IMHO.

Since when is the modern version of conservatism and the classic definition of pragmatic mutually exclusive?

The far right is playing Roveian wedge politics with McCain. Select a tiny amount of issues, and say you're either with us or against us. To say Clinton and McCain are the same with a few differences is moronic at best.

Conservatism used to be fiscal responsibility, strong on defense, and smaller govt.

Now it is all about wedge politics with social issues.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Wreckem
The far right is playing Roveian wedge politics with McCain. Select a tiny amount of issues, and say you're either with us or against us. To say Clinton and McCain are the same with a few differences is moronic at best.

Take away national security and the War. Look at their positions on other issues. They are indeed extremely close. Way, way too close for comfort.

McCain is open borders...so is Hillary.

McCain favors carbon taxes and other enviro-nut policies and regulations in the name of snake oil called Global Warming. So does Hillary.

You get the idea.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Wreckem
The far right is playing Roveian wedge politics with McCain. Select a tiny amount of issues, and say you're either with us or against us. To say Clinton and McCain are the same with a few differences is moronic at best.

Take away national security and the War. Look at their positions on other issues. They are indeed extremely close. Way, way too close for comfort.

McCain is open borders...so is Hillary.

McCain favors carbon taxes and other enviro-nut policies and regulations in the name of snake oil called Global Warming. So does Hillary.

You get the idea.

Last I checked McCain wanted to shut down the boarders. He differs on how to manage the 20million illegals 12million which are latino.

Its funny, there hasnt been one sound plan proposed by conservatives on how to dispel 12million people from this country.

Abortion, gay rights, healthcare, supreme court judges, spending in general, etc etc.

There are VERY few issues where McCain and Clinton are the same. All this is, is hyperbole and wedge politics with a few select issues.

If "conservatives" make immigration their key issue like abortion was. They are indeed a dying breed in elected political office.

Is still want to know why Rush et al have given Romney the slide on healthcare, he said he'd mandate it during one of the debates.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: marincounty
Open borders is a Republican priority, going back to your hero, Ronald Reagan, who legalized millions of illegal aliens. Twenty years of Republicans in the white house, and they have done nothing to stop illegal immigration. John McCain is just another in a long line.

If by "done nothing to stop" you mean grant amnesty like McCain, Hillary, and Obama will do?

Thanks for, 1 demogoging the subject of betrayal down to a single issue. 2, thinking Reagan meant anything to me - seeing as I was born during his second term. George W. Bush is the first President under which I?ve been aware of politics (thank 9-11 for that), and why the hell do you think I oppose McCain and Romney?

Because I will see the party burn to the ground before electing another ?compassionate? liberal conservative like Bush. But yeah, go ahead and keep up your dogma about how they?re my heroes. While you?re at it, find some more bigoted stereotypes to land on me.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Wreckem
Last I checked McCain wanted to shut down the boarders. He differs on how to manage the 20million illegals 12million which are latino.

Yeah, McAmnesty decided to "shut down the borders" only after McCain-Kennedy was resoundingly defeated. Now he says "I get it!" ... Right.

Its funny, there hasnt been one sound plan proposed by conservatives on how to dispel 12million people from this country.

That's because there isn't broad agreement on the issue, and it is politically sensitive. If it were up to me, I'd deport the whole lot. Now. Lock, stock, and barrel. McCain throws up the criminal label and "special exceptions" and pretty soon we can't even agree that ALL illegals should be deported.

There are VERY few issues where McCain and Clinton are the same. All this is, is hyperbole and wedge politics with a few select issues.

Fair enough, but there are enough, and they're KEY issues. Illegal Immigration is no small matter.

If "conservatives" make immigration their key issue like abortion was. They are indeed a dying breed in elected political office.

I'd rather go down fighting than sell out for a few votes.

Is still want to know why Rush et al have given Romney the slide on healthcare, he said he'd mandate it during one of the debates.

Because they know he'll never do it. Or get it done.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Pabster

If "conservatives" make immigration their key issue like abortion was. They are indeed a dying breed in elected political office.

I'd rather go down fighting than sell out for a few votes.

Damn straight.

Besides, a new party focused around our values will never be galvanized if we continue to betray our values.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Wreckem
The far right is playing Roveian wedge politics with McCain. Select a tiny amount of issues, and say you're either with us or against us. To say Clinton and McCain are the same with a few differences is moronic at best.

Take away national security and the War. Look at their positions on other issues. They are indeed extremely close. Way, way too close for comfort.

McCain is open borders...so is Hillary.

McCain favors carbon taxes and other enviro-nut policies and regulations in the name of snake oil called Global Warming. So does Hillary.

You get the idea.

BUT!

McCain is anti-abortion, Hillary is pro-choice and pro-partial birth abortion.

McCain is for cutting government waste, Hillary wants to build up government mandated programs like universal health care.

 

[FoBoT]

McCain can suck it, i already voted for Obama

he is going to implode tomorrow at CPAC, he is going to show them a Ronald Reagan film :laugh:

what a moran!!! that isn't going to help him win conservatives, to go into CPAC and tell them he is the next Ronald Reagan :laugh:

he is a retard

 

[Starbuck1975]

I don't think conservatives will allow a Democrat controlled White House and Congress...as much as they despise McCain, they despise the Clintons even more.

One step further, McCain can mend the fences with those opposed to his nomination by taking on Huckabee as his VP...there are already indications that the two campaigns are in negotiations, and Huckabee has demonstrated a strong pull from traditional Republican strongholds.

McCain for the Republican moderates, and those disenfranchised with the Bush Administration...Huckabee to pull the evangelical core...and all Republicans motivated towards preventing a Hillary Presidency.

Obama is the only one who can shake things up, as independents will be torn between McCain and Obama.

 

[FoBoT]

no, adding Huckabee only makes it WORSE

if it is McCain and some random person, i'll vote Libertarian

if McCain makes Huckabee his VP, i'll actaully vote against that crap by voting for Obama or Clinton in Nov.


it is easier to live with a known enemy than a RINO/CINO

 

[PokerGuy]

Originally posted by: Pabster
PokerGuy, Rush is right about the global warming snake-oil, and McCain buying in to it.

He's already said he wants to impose numerous restrictions on Detroit to improve fuel efficiency and stop global warming.

Rush was also right that the nomination of McCain will be the end of the Republican Party as we know it.

See? You pretty much affirmed my point. You have the right to believe that GW is simply a bunch of baloney, but the fact is that the vast majority of non-right-wing-zealots in the country believe it's a serious issue that needs dealt with. Any candidate that espouses the right-wing-nut ideas that the supposed conservatives (like Rush) want will go down in flames in any election - period. Those ideas are simply not mainstream, they are fringe ideas. Get used to it, no candidate supporting mostly fringe ideas that appeal to one side or the other is going to win the election unless he's got something extremely strong going for him (like Reagan's charisma).

Also, what's wrong with imposing restrictions on Detroit as long as those same restrictions are in place on all manufacturers? If Detroit can't compete with other manufacturers when placed under the same milage / environmental restrictions, why should they be there? That's what an open marketplace does, it removes those that can't effectively compete. Governments job is to make sure everyone's playing by the same rules.

Finally, Rush was close to being right. McCain will not end the party as we know it, he will end the right-wing takeover of the republican party as we've recently come to know it and move it back to the mainstream.

While I'm not a McCain fan and completely disagree with him on lots of things (immigration being one of them), I'm glad someone is finally in a position to take back the party that has been hijacked by the nutcases like Rush.

 

[Pabster]

PokerGuy, the real question is...how many will leave the GOP over such a turn, and will they ever come back?

I think they are making a huge mistake, particularly in underestimating the anger amongst the base and what effect it will have.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I don't think conservatives will allow a Democrat controlled White House and Congress

I don't think they'll have a choice, at least from 08 - 10. McCain's gonna run on how the war was a good idea and how we should stay over there forever, and has admitted the economy isn't his most knowledgeable area. The 2 biggest issues this election? Iraq, which 2/3 of americans want us out of and the economy. Add on the last 8 years of Bush and the Reps are facing a seriously uphill general election regardless of who they face. And the Senate is in no danger of going Red, and looks likely to pick up some more Blue seats. http://uspolitics.about.com/od...8_senate_elections.htm