One example of how undocumented workers hurt America

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: OrByte
No walls will ever be built.

No armed guards will ever be assigned to the border

The best you can hope for would be guest worker visas.

But most likely it will be amnesty. Why? because it was done before, but most importantly, your government wants it this way.

and enough of these english speaking nonsense...where are we in Europe? This is AMERICA, people are free to speak however they wish!! are we really turning into another race embattled european country?

Don't bet your life on it.

Ha. I understand these illegals really get under your skin, but you really should be directing all this anger and frustration at your elected officials.

And btw, since you seem to know more about this issue than I do, how is it that this brick wall that you are so hell bent on is going to be funded? What about national guardsmen? who is going to pay for that?

This has been the problem all along. Existing border regulation has never been satisfactory due to the fact that state and federal governments can't get their heads out their butts and come to a working solution. Now the solution on the table is to create stiffer penalties for illegals and those that support illegals..it isn't going to do a DAMN THING.

Neither will blindly screaming and ranting about how bad illegals are and how they should all be sent back to where they came from. But it sure does paint you guys in a xenophobic light (and not in a good way.)

you guys simply are not approaching the issue reasonably.

 

[chowderhead]

California should enact this law that would expell illegal immigrants in the state prisons to their home country.
Bid fails to deport immigrant prisoners, Bill to ease crowding seen as a victim of demonstrations
"The pool of inmates that might be included in the program is huge: Of the nearly 171,000 inmates crowding state prisons, 22,478, or about 13 percent as of March 31, are undocumented immigrants or are suspected of being undocumented."

Escutia's staff had estimated that the law would have saved as much as $1 billion, an extraordinary benefit for a corrections system that costs the state more than $8 billion a year.

come on. They've had their due process in court, now we need to deport them back to their home countries. The US government needs to be held accountable for being MIA on border security.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: OrByte
No walls will ever be built.

No armed guards will ever be assigned to the border

The best you can hope for would be guest worker visas.

But most likely it will be amnesty. Why? because it was done before, but most importantly, your government wants it this way.

and enough of these english speaking nonsense...where are we in Europe? This is AMERICA, people are free to speak however they wish!! are we really turning into another race embattled european country?

Don't bet your life on it.

Ha. I understand these illegals really get under your skin, but you really should be directing all this anger and frustration at your elected officials.

And btw, since you seem to know more about this issue than I do, how is it that this brick wall that you are so hell bent on is going to be funded? What about national guardsmen? who is going to pay for that?

This has been the problem all along. Existing border regulation has never been satisfactory due to the fact that state and federal governments can't get their heads out their butts and come to a working solution. Now the solution on the table is to create stiffer penalties for illegals and those that support illegals..it isn't going to do a DAMN THING.

Neither will blindly screaming and ranting about how bad illegals are and how they should all be sent back to where they came from. But it sure does paint you guys in a xenophobic light (ie not in a good way.)

you guys simply are not approaching the issue reasonably.

I don't think we need to build anything like the Great Wall of China. I think a 10 foot high fence made out of woven wire topped with barbed wire would be enough to get the point accross and slow things up until we can logically address the situation. If that doesn't work well enough then build another one 100 feet inside of the first one. Of course we would need to patrol the border better, but a fence would make that job much easier.

Instead of the "catch and release" program we have now, we could acutally put the illegals we catch to work building the fence for a 6 month sentence. That would help drive home the point to everyone thinkoing about crossing our border illegally.

I think that would buy us the time to work on the problem of the 12 million illegals we currently have here. I think some of them would qualify for citizenship, most for guest worker status, but anyone with any type of criminal record would be deported back to Mexico City. We need to require all of them to register as guest workers. Anyone who doesn't will be automatically be deported when caught. Any employers found employing illegals after the guest registration period will be severly fined up to and including jail time for whoever hired them.


The problem the way I see it is to stop them from coming in. No amnesty for anyone until that happens.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: chowderhead
California should enact this law that would expell illegal immigrants in the state prisons to their home country.
Bid fails to deport immigrant prisoners, Bill to ease crowding seen as a victim of demonstrations
"The pool of inmates that might be included in the program is huge: Of the nearly 171,000 inmates crowding state prisons, 22,478, or about 13 percent as of March 31, are undocumented immigrants or are suspected of being undocumented."

Escutia's staff had estimated that the law would have saved as much as $1 billion, an extraordinary benefit for a corrections system that costs the state more than $8 billion a year.

come on. They've had their due process in court, now we need to deport them back to their home countries. The US government needs to be held accountable for being MIA on border security.

Yeah that's ridiculous. Are they just going to stay in the prison forever? lol.

 

[D-Man]

I think I have a solution to the wall problem. We hire the 12 million illegal workers that are in our country. We line them up at the border to build the wall standing on the Mexican side. When the last brick is laid we blow the whisle to end the workday.

I will help by buying a few bricks.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: D-Man
I think I have a solution to the wall problem. We hire the 12 million illegal workers that are in our country. We line them up at the border to build the wall standing on the Mexican side. When the last brick is laid we blow the whisle to end the workday.

I will help by buying a few bricks.

here ya go
http://www.send-a-brick.com/

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: OrByte
No walls will ever be built.

No armed guards will ever be assigned to the border

The best you can hope for would be guest worker visas.

But most likely it will be amnesty. Why? because it was done before, but most importantly, your government wants it this way.

and enough of these english speaking nonsense...where are we in Europe? This is AMERICA, people are free to speak however they wish!! are we really turning into another race embattled european country?

Don't bet your life on it.

Ha. I understand these illegals really get under your skin, but you really should be directing all this anger and frustration at your elected officials.

And btw, since you seem to know more about this issue than I do, how is it that this brick wall that you are so hell bent on is going to be funded? What about national guardsmen? who is going to pay for that?

This has been the problem all along. Existing border regulation has never been satisfactory due to the fact that state and federal governments can't get their heads out their butts and come to a working solution. Now the solution on the table is to create stiffer penalties for illegals and those that support illegals..it isn't going to do a DAMN THING.

Neither will blindly screaming and ranting about how bad illegals are and how they should all be sent back to where they came from. But it sure does paint you guys in a xenophobic light (ie not in a good way.)

you guys simply are not approaching the issue reasonably.

I don't think we need to build anything like the Great Wall of China. I think a 10 foot high fence made out of woven wire topped with barbed wire would be enough to get the point accross and slow things up until we can logically address the situation. If that doesn't work well enough then build another one 100 feet inside of the first one. Of course we would need to patrol the border better, but a fence would make that job much easier.

Instead of the "catch and release" program we have now, we could acutally put the illegals we catch to work building the fence for a 6 month sentence. That would help drive home the point to everyone thinkoing about crossing our border illegally.

I think that would buy us the time to work on the problem of the 12 million illegals we currently have here. I think some of them would qualify for citizenship, most for guest worker status, but anyone with any type of criminal record would be deported back to Mexico City. We need to require all of them to register as guest workers. Anyone who doesn't will be automatically be deported when caught. Any employers found employing illegals after the guest registration period will be severly fined up to and including jail time for whoever hired them.


The problem the way I see it is to stop them from coming in. No amnesty for anyone until that happens.

I'm overseas right now so let me tell you about a successful wall......

reflective yellow and black knee high barrier followed by a 15ft deep trench 20 feet across......100 yards or so later is an electric fence topped with barbed wire.....5 yards after this is a 10 ft high stacked razor wire fence......another 5 yards down is another electric fence..............

this is the fence that seperates Iraq from Kuwait.......obviously it's on Kuwait's side.....

Earlier some idiot mentioned that there has never been a fence that worked........Heard of the Berlin wall?........Israel's seems to be working as well....heard of the Korean demilitarized zone?...........of course not Steeple- more of the same for you, ignore common sense and ask everyone to waste time and get sources for info that is undebateable and unequivocally true anyways.......

border agents could man the fence and not only could we probably reduce the number of border patrol agents- the number of criminal illegals making it across the border would be GREATLY diminished...........

we could easily have a visible barrier that if crossed would be grounds for being shot as invading..........i'm sure i'll hear something about how that is "wrong" but how many people would actually be shot before they decided "hmmm, maybe attempting to cross isn't worth it"........besides, if they're invading our country they should be shot- it's alot more effective then putting them in our jails and supplying them with free food, tv, housing and sex........

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: chowderhead
California should enact this law that would expell illegal immigrants in the state prisons to their home country.
Bid fails to deport immigrant prisoners, Bill to ease crowding seen as a victim of demonstrations
"The pool of inmates that might be included in the program is huge: Of the nearly 171,000 inmates crowding state prisons, 22,478, or about 13 percent as of March 31, are undocumented immigrants or are suspected of being undocumented."

Escutia's staff had estimated that the law would have saved as much as $1 billion, an extraordinary benefit for a corrections system that costs the state more than $8 billion a year.

come on. They've had their due process in court, now we need to deport them back to their home countries. The US government needs to be held accountable for being MIA on border security.

I disagree, as it stands right now if we release them they will simply get out and recross the border and commit more crimes......until the fence is built we have to keep them in prison........

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: OrByte
No walls will ever be built.

No armed guards will ever be assigned to the border

The best you can hope for would be guest worker visas.

But most likely it will be amnesty. Why? because it was done before, but most importantly, your government wants it this way.

and enough of these english speaking nonsense...where are we in Europe? This is AMERICA, people are free to speak however they wish!! are we really turning into another race embattled european country?

Don't bet your life on it.

Ha. I understand these illegals really get under your skin, but you really should be directing all this anger and frustration at your elected officials.

And btw, since you seem to know more about this issue than I do, how is it that this brick wall that you are so hell bent on is going to be funded? What about national guardsmen? who is going to pay for that?

This has been the problem all along. Existing border regulation has never been satisfactory due to the fact that state and federal governments can't get their heads out their butts and come to a working solution. Now the solution on the table is to create stiffer penalties for illegals and those that support illegals..it isn't going to do a DAMN THING.

Neither will blindly screaming and ranting about how bad illegals are and how they should all be sent back to where they came from. But it sure does paint you guys in a xenophobic light (and not in a good way.)

you guys simply are not approaching the issue reasonably.

How is anything funded? Thru a bill passed by Congress/Senate and signed by the President...........a wall would allow us to deport the criminals without them being able to return saving us a Billion a year in CA alone..........a wall would be an excellent value compared to the billions we will lose in future illegal immigration if nothing is done......

 

[quizzelsnatch]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: ironwing


So, luck of the draw, eh? Other than being born here, undocumented workers do all the things you listed, except obey the law concerning immigration status because WE WON'T LET THEM; get it? The only thing blocking illegal immigrants and legal status is bad law and bad policy. Fix the law and all those "illegals" become legal and go on with their work growing food for Americans, cleaning American houses, building American houses, and generally doing for Americans as they have been doing, only they would have legal status. Oh, and their employers would start having to pay the taxes they've been stealing from the rest of us. A win-win situation compared to the current situation.

Why don't we just "fix" all the laws then? Make EVERYTHING legal. Murder -- legal. Rape -- legal. Robbery -- legal. Embezzlement -- legal. Child abuse -- legal. Assault -- legal. Torture -- legal (oops! that one is already legal according to bush).

What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand. Don't you realize that a nation that can't control its borders is DOOMED? Don't you realize that giving anyone who can violate our borders and our laws amnesty or legal status will cause MILLIONS MORE to come here? Don't you realize that societies without border control and laws face anarchy?

Your ridiculous prescription to "fix" the ILLEGAL immigration problem is a recipe for disaster. I can't believe you're suggesting such nonsense seriously. It's a parody, right? Like Stephen Colbert, right? Just joking, right?

because rape, torture, child abuse, murder, robbery, those are all parallel to coming to a country, working your ass off for minimum wage and sending anything you can to the rest of your family so that they can eat

Maybe if you realized that illegal immigrants make up 50% of our agriculture industry you'd stop yelling for them to leave and pray that they would stay. Because if they were not here, then we would be SOL on food, and many other places would be too (countries that depend on US food exports).

You are so incredibly blind. These illegals aren't coming here to STEAL our jobs, BREAK the law, ruin our language and any other values. They come here to LIVE. How can you deny them that? You can claim that you were born here and that you worked so hard for this country. What about your great-grandparents? were they born here? Your great-great-grandparents? were they born here? Hmmmm? Are you 100% native american? Because, for some reason, i highly doubt that, and you are a hypocrit for claiming that you deserve to be here more-so than them.

 

[BoomerD]

You are so incredibly blind. These illegals aren't coming here to STEAL our jobs, BREAK the law, ruin our language and any other values. They come here to LIVE.

Then WHY are so many of them in our prisons? The current estimate is 50% of California prison inmates are illegal immigrants. 75% of the meth labs are operated by illegal immigrants. Over 50% of the car thefts in my county are hispanics, illegal or legal.
As for the agricultural work...seems to me, that a few years ago, it was mostly white AMERICANS who followed the crops, NOT the illegals.

 

[1EZduzit]

This letter sent to Tennessee Senator Bill Frist from a retired border patrol agent, and it has more common sense than all the bull being spewed from the Senate, with the exception of a few sensible representatives.
Dear Senator Frist:
There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens.
#1.
Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen. Mexicans, and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price.
#2.
There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans can't take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and send money to their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a decent wage.
#3.
Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries. They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the more than 20 billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their children.
#4.
Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful U.S. residents.
#5.
This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.
#6.
The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined.
#7.
There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are white, brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The so-called "Hispanic vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end.
#8.
Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed German Spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren.
#9.
Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to come to America and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another nation?
#10.
There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage.
#11.
It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the price? For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to remain here? There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in 2008 and yet again in 2010. We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves.
David J. Stoddard
U.S. Border Patrol (RET)
Hereford, Arizona

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: hysperion

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: OrByte
No walls will ever be built.

No armed guards will ever be assigned to the border

The best you can hope for would be guest worker visas.

But most likely it will be amnesty. Why? because it was done before, but most importantly, your government wants it this way.

and enough of these english speaking nonsense...where are we in Europe? This is AMERICA, people are free to speak however they wish!! are we really turning into another race embattled european country?

Don't bet your life on it.

Ha. I understand these illegals really get under your skin, but you really should be directing all this anger and frustration at your elected officials.

And btw, since you seem to know more about this issue than I do, how is it that this brick wall that you are so hell bent on is going to be funded? What about national guardsmen? who is going to pay for that?

This has been the problem all along. Existing border regulation has never been satisfactory due to the fact that state and federal governments can't get their heads out their butts and come to a working solution. Now the solution on the table is to create stiffer penalties for illegals and those that support illegals..it isn't going to do a DAMN THING.

Neither will blindly screaming and ranting about how bad illegals are and how they should all be sent back to where they came from. But it sure does paint you guys in a xenophobic light (ie not in a good way.)

you guys simply are not approaching the issue reasonably.

I don't think we need to build anything like the Great Wall of China. I think a 10 foot high fence made out of woven wire topped with barbed wire would be enough to get the point accross and slow things up until we can logically address the situation. If that doesn't work well enough then build another one 100 feet inside of the first one. Of course we would need to patrol the border better, but a fence would make that job much easier.

Instead of the "catch and release" program we have now, we could acutally put the illegals we catch to work building the fence for a 6 month sentence. That would help drive home the point to everyone thinkoing about crossing our border illegally.

I think that would buy us the time to work on the problem of the 12 million illegals we currently have here. I think some of them would qualify for citizenship, most for guest worker status, but anyone with any type of criminal record would be deported back to Mexico City. We need to require all of them to register as guest workers. Anyone who doesn't will be automatically be deported when caught. Any employers found employing illegals after the guest registration period will be severly fined up to and including jail time for whoever hired them.


The problem the way I see it is to stop them from coming in. No amnesty for anyone until that happens.

I'm overseas right now so let me tell you about a successful wall......

reflective yellow and black knee high barrier followed by a 15ft deep trench 20 feet across......100 yards or so later is an electric fence topped with barbed wire.....5 yards after this is a 10 ft high stacked razor wire fence......another 5 yards down is another electric fence..............

this is the fence that seperates Iraq from Kuwait.......obviously it's on Kuwait's side.....

Earlier some idiot mentioned that there has never been a fence that worked........Heard of the Berlin wall?........Israel's seems to be working as well....heard of the Korean demilitarized zone?...........of course not Steeple- more of the same for you, ignore common sense and ask everyone to waste time and get sources for info that is undebateable and unequivocally true anyways.......

border agents could man the fence and not only could we probably reduce the number of border patrol agents- the number of criminal illegals making it across the border would be GREATLY diminished...........

we could easily have a visible barrier that if crossed would be grounds for being shot as invading..........i'm sure i'll hear something about how that is "wrong" but how many people would actually be shot before they decided "hmmm, maybe attempting to cross isn't worth it"........besides, if they're invading our country they should be shot- it's alot more effective then putting them in our jails and supplying them with free food, tv, housing and sex........

This argument makes too much sense. You probably won't find many supporters for it in here.

I've often wondered myself about the morality or righteousness of having snipers on the border. And I've come up short. We have ignored our own laws for too long and sent a clear signal that we really don't care that much if you want to try and sneak across our border. We can't suddenly just start stationing snipers on the border one day without warning. However, I think a very forboding looking barrier or series of barriers of some kind would send a loud and clear message to the contrary letting them know that those days are over. You've worn out your welcome, border jumpers. Now you've incurred our wrath. If the barrier isn't enough of a message to disuade people from trying to cross illegally, then maybe an angry supersonic hornet buzzing across the bridge of their noses will be. One warning shot is all you get. I don't think it would take many incidents like this to make the message heard and dissuade most people or make them think twice before trying to cross.

And while we're at it, we need to get rid of that stupid policy that says if you can make it from Cuba to terra firma in Florida on your little makeshift raft you get to stay. Gather them up, put them on a high speed boat and send them back to Cuba. It's no fair cutting off the Mexico border and having people attempt the much riskier trip across the ocean from Cuba.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: TGS

Which is why I fully understood your stance from the beginning. Your ancestors came over put there name on the ledger and could get on with life. Then you turn around and make those who follow you (who has been given the rights of a citizen free and clear mind you) to jump through loops.

That is not true at all. Our ancestors had to kill an awful lot of native Americans to take over this country. Not that I'm proud of that or anything but it wasn't as cut and dry as you make it sound. So unless you are willing to go to war with the present day America and take it over from us like our ancestors took it over from the natives so many years ago, STFU and quitcherbitchin. And so what even if that hadn't been the case, and the land had been totally empty when we found it. They got here first. They win! Our ancestors who "discovered" and founded America were out sailing across the oceans and exploring and conquering the world while most other places were simple tribal fishing villages. Sorry if the truth hurts but that's just how it is.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: TGS

Which is why I fully understood your stance from the beginning. Your ancestors came over put there name on the ledger and could get on with life. Then you turn around and make those who follow you (who has been given the rights of a citizen free and clear mind you) to jump through loops.

That is not true at all. Our ancestors had to kill an awful lot of native Americans to take over this country. Not that I'm proud of that or anything but it wasn't as cut and dry as you make it sound. So unless you are willing to go to war with the present day America and take it over from us like our ancestors took it over from the natives so many years ago, STFU and quitcherbitchin. And so what even if that hadn't been the case, and the land had been totally empty when we found it. They got here first. They win! Our ancestors who "discovered" and founded America were out sailing across the oceans and exploring and conquering the world while most other places were simple tribal fishing villages. Sorry if the truth hurts but that's just how it is.

Um, most of the folks coming here illegally are also descended from folks who ""discovered" and founded America [and] were out sailing across the oceans and exploring and conquering the world while most other places were simple tribal fishing villages." In fact their ancestors were busy doing that a good century before "our" ancestors while "our" ancestors were busy at the time beating the snot out of each other over minor points of religious doctrine.