One example of how undocumented workers hurt America

[daniel49]

OLYMPIA -- A state audit has questioned nearly $1 billion that Washington's Medicaid program spent last year -- including $75 million that may have to be repaid to the federal government because it was used for unauthorized medical services for undocumented aliens.

Undocumented aliens received prenatal care, chemotherapy, kidney transplants and other procedures the federal government prohibits its money from being spent on, the audit released Thursday found.

The report examined Medicaid payments in the fiscal year that ended in 2005.

Medicaid, a joint state and federal program, spent $6.2 billion last year on health services for the state's poor and disabled.

"We found no improvements in the ... controls from previous years," the audit said. "Washington state is providing service to thousands of ineligible clients using federal Medicaid money. The majority of these clients were admitted into the program due to unaddressed significant weaknesses in the department's controls. This is causing the nation's taxpayers to subsidize Washington state's non-compliance."

Full story on link
Unfortunately Washington is a blue state and this is how they are ignoring Federal laws and sticking it to the taxpayers. Of course this is only one instance (medicaid) and one state....how many other instances and states could we reasonably multiply that by?


Seattle PI

 

[BBond]

I hope all of the people who are defending this continuing failure of immigration policy take a long hard look at this. It's just what we've been telling them. Not only are these ILLEGAL immigrants forcing wages DOWN, they are LEECHING off of social programs like Medicare and Social Security -- PROGRAMS THAT WERE MEANT FOR AMERICAN CITIZENS NOT ILLEGAL CRIMINALS WHO VIOLATE OUR BORDERS AND WHOSE PRESENCE IS A DETRIMENT TO OUR ECONOMY.

Perhaps when a few more states are forced to repay millions of dollars for services rendered to people who shouldn't be in America in the first place someone in government will WTFU and demand that the current administration enforce existing immigration laws and send these criminals, these thieves, these leeches, back where they came from.

 

[Zebo]

If they enter illegally what makes you think they will follow any other laws? Also I'm wondering what it does for rule of law in general? Meaning if we see our government and employers knowingly violating or not enforcing immigration law whats this say about federal laws I have to follow? Should I do everything possible to skirt them since everybody else is? Maybe I just pick a choose which laws apply to me. I had a New Castle Ale on the road yesterday.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Zebo
If they enter illegally what makes you think they will follow any other laws? Also I'm wondering what it does for rule of law in general? Meaning if we see our government and employers knowingly violating or not enforcing immigration law whats this say about federal laws I have to follow? Should I do everything possible to skirt them since everybody else is?

I had some clown here, OFFascist IIRC, tell me that if you don't agree with a law morally you don't have to obey it. He told me this while trying to lamely defend these criminals who are violating our borders. So feel free to ignore any laws you think aren't morally right in your opinion.

Just as with these ILLEGAL immigrants, this is a recipe for chaos. We now have a president who feels just as OFFascist does. He signs laws then follows them with signing statements that say he can ignore the very laws he just signed. Then he tell agencies like Cusotms and Immigration to not enforce existing law while he gives a nod and a wink to millions of ILLEGAL immigrant invaders, letting them know it's OK to bum rush our borders.

george w. bush is not only the WORST president in the history of the United States of America, he is very high on the list of worst leaders in the history of the world. If ever a president should be impeached and tried for treason, that president is george w. bush.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Zebo
If they enter illegally what makes you think they will follow any other laws? Also I'm wondering what it does for rule of law in general? Meaning if we see our government and employers knowingly violating or not enforcing immigration law whats this say about federal laws I have to follow? Should I do everything possible to skirt them since everybody else is? Maybe I just pick a choose which laws apply to me. I had a New Castle Ale on the road yesterday.

yep, pay taxes? Just another one of those pesky federal laws

 

[EatSpam]

But your vegetables might cost 5 cents more!! </illegal invader apologist>

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: EatSpam
But your vegetables might cost 5 cents more!! </illegal invader apologist>

And you might make 5 cents more to pay for them if some ILLEGAL immigrant wasn't stealing your job by doing it for slave wages, living in a two room apartment with twenty or so of his fellow ILLEGAL immigrant buddies, and sending most of his below minimum wages back home.

If Americans don't insist on protecting their jobs then fools like george w. bush will keep repeating the totally insulting lie that these ILLEGALS are here doing work Americans don't want to do.

The truth is, Americans will work whatever job they can get. They just won't work for slave wages like the ILLEGALS.

 

[Zebo]

aplogist- I think many americans, unlike BBOND, understand both sides of the issue which is why you don't see protests and the will to enforce immigration laws. It's not being an apologist, it's more like it does'nt mean anything to my life on any scale to have a bunch of illegals here vs. it means a lot for an illegal to be here. Makes the difference between starving on the mexican streets and victim to thier mob goverment to at least having a future and a wage.

On the fence.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Zebo
aplogist- I think many americans, unlike BBOND, understand both sides of the issue which is why you don't see protests and the will to enforce immigration laws. It's not being an apologist, it's more like it does'nt mean anything to my life on any scale to have a bunch of illegals here vs. it means a lot for an illegal to be here. Makes the difference between starving on the mexican streets and victim to thier mob goverment to at least having a future and a wage.

On the fence.

There is only ONE side to this issue. They are here ILLEGALLY. Why should America, already under dire economic pressure due mostly to the idiot-in-chief's anti-American economic policies, have to allow people who violate our borders to leech off of our social programs, force wages down, and steal jobs that Americans have and would gladly work if the ILLEGAL immigrants weren't doing them for slave wages?

Your entire argument falls apart the moment you allow people who are here ILLEGALLY some 'right' to jobs and services that they are stealing by their very ILLEGAL presence on American soil.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Zebo
aplogist- I think many americans, unlike BBOND, understand both sides of the issue which is why you don't see protests and the will to enforce immigration laws. It's not being an apologist, it's more like it does'nt mean anything to my life on any scale to have a bunch of illegals here vs. it means a lot for an illegal to be here. Makes the difference between starving on the mexican streets and victim to thier mob goverment to at least having a future and a wage.

On the fence.

There is only ONE side to this issue. They are here ILLEGALLY. Why should America, already under dire economic pressure due mostly to the idiot-in-chief's anti-American economic policies, have to allow people who violate our borders to leech off of our social programs, force wages down, and steal jobs that Americans have and would gladly work if the ILLEGAL immigrants weren't doing them for slave wages?

Your entire argument falls apart the moment you allow people who are here ILLEGALLY some 'right' to jobs and services that they are stealing by their very ILLEGAL presence on American soil.

your entire arguement falls apart when you realize that most of us have never done a goddamn thing to earn our place in america

 

[IronWing]

Who isn't paying the taxes, the immigrants or the businesses who hire them? Withholding is the responsibility of the employer. When you are looking for someone to bill, look no further than those businesses that are pocketing the taxes that are supposed to be withheld. A policy of slapping businesses that hire undocumented workers with the costs of those workers now covered by taxpayers and hospitals would shutdown the system that drives illegal migration. Take the profits out of crime and it goes away. Right now employers are making a bundle off of undocumented workers.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Zebo
aplogist- I think many americans, unlike BBOND, understand both sides of the issue which is why you don't see protests and the will to enforce immigration laws. It's not being an apologist, it's more like it does'nt mean anything to my life on any scale to have a bunch of illegals here vs. it means a lot for an illegal to be here. Makes the difference between starving on the mexican streets and victim to thier mob goverment to at least having a future and a wage.

On the fence.

There is only ONE side to this issue. They are here ILLEGALLY. Why should America, already under dire economic pressure due mostly to the idiot-in-chief's anti-American economic policies, have to allow people who violate our borders to leech off of our social programs, force wages down, and steal jobs that Americans have and would gladly work if the ILLEGAL immigrants weren't doing them for slave wages?

Your entire argument falls apart the moment you allow people who are here ILLEGALLY some 'right' to jobs and services that they are stealing by their very ILLEGAL presence on American soil.

your entire arguement falls apart when you realize that most of us have never done a goddamn thing to earn our place in america

That's the most ridiculous statement to date on the ILLEGAL immigrant bullshit story people like you are trying to foist on AMERICANS.

I WAS BORN HERE. THIS IS MY COUNTRY. I worked a lifetime, paid my taxes, obeyed the law, helped other Americans whenever I could, donated money, goods, time. I am a good citizen like most Americans and good nations are made by good citizens.

Some leech violating our borders to come here and steal jobs from Americans, to steal services that are meant for Americans, can NEVER be compared with even the worst in our society.

If YOU have never done anything to earn your place here, please speak for YOURSELF.

And with an inane comment such as yours, I can believe you never have.

 

[Zebo]

ironwing - They do not pay them under the table because they must have a money trail for deductions and banking regulations. Trust me I know many contractors and resturanteers. You can't just withdraw $30,000 a week cash to make payroll and it goes unoticed. Not to mention you will pay the full top rate on that cash instead of employees if done that way. They pay them with bogus SS numbers and take out federal, medicare, state if applicable & SS.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Zebo
They do not pay them under the table because they must have a money trail for deductions and banking regulations. Trust me I know many contractors andd resturant owners. You can't just withdraw $30,000 a week cash to make payroll and it goes unoticed. Not to mention you will pay the full top rate on that cash instead of employees if done that way. They pay them with bogus SS numbers and take out federal, medicare, state if applicable & SS.

Then we can add FRAUD charges to their immigration charges.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Zebo
aplogist- I think many americans, unlike BBOND, understand both sides of the issue which is why you don't see protests and the will to enforce immigration laws. It's not being an apologist, it's more like it does'nt mean anything to my life on any scale to have a bunch of illegals here vs. it means a lot for an illegal to be here. Makes the difference between starving on the mexican streets and victim to thier mob goverment to at least having a future and a wage.

On the fence.

The United States had a revolution to get rid of our oppresive government. Why can't Mexico? The United States is basically the Mexican government's welfare system... they transfer all their poor here so they don't have to worry about jobs, housing, etc.

And these illegals do work hard, most of them. It would be just swell if they would work so hard at fixing Mexico.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Zebo
aplogist- I think many americans, unlike BBOND, understand both sides of the issue which is why you don't see protests and the will to enforce immigration laws. It's not being an apologist, it's more like it does'nt mean anything to my life on any scale to have a bunch of illegals here vs. it means a lot for an illegal to be here. Makes the difference between starving on the mexican streets and victim to thier mob goverment to at least having a future and a wage.

On the fence.

There is only ONE side to this issue. They are here ILLEGALLY. Why should America, already under dire economic pressure due mostly to the idiot-in-chief's anti-American economic policies, have to allow people who violate our borders to leech off of our social programs, force wages down, and steal jobs that Americans have and would gladly work if the ILLEGAL immigrants weren't doing them for slave wages?

Your entire argument falls apart the moment you allow people who are here ILLEGALLY some 'right' to jobs and services that they are stealing by their very ILLEGAL presence on American soil.

your entire arguement falls apart when you realize that most of us have never done a goddamn thing to earn our place in america

That's the most ridiculous statement to date on the ILLEGAL immigrant bullshit story people like you are trying to foist on AMERICANS.

I WAS BORN HERE. THIS IS MY COUNTRY. I worked a lifetime, paid my taxes, obeyed the law, helped other Americans whenever I could, donated money, goods, time. I am a good citizen like most Americans and good nations are made by good citizens.

Some leech violating our borders to come here and steal jobs from Americans, to steal services that are meant for Americans, can NEVER be compared with even the worst in our society.

If YOU have never done anything to earn your place here, please speak for YOURSELF.

And with an inane comment such as yours, I can believe you never have.

So, luck of the draw, eh? Other than being born here, undocumented workers do all the things you listed, except obey the law concerning immigration status because WE WON'T LET THEM; get it? The only thing blocking illegal immigrants and legal status is bad law and bad policy. Fix the law and all those "illegals" become legal and go on with their work growing food for Americans, cleaning American houses, building American houses, and generally doing for Americans as they have been doing, only they would have legal status. Oh, and their employers would start having to pay the taxes they've been stealing from the rest of us. A win-win situation compared to the current situation.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Zebo
They do not pay them under the table because they must have a money trail for deductions and banking regulations. Trust me I know many contractors andd resturant owners. You can't just withdraw $30,000 a week cash to make payroll and it goes unoticed. Not to mention you will pay the full top rate on that cash instead of employees if done that way. They pay them with bogus SS numbers and take out federal, medicare, state if applicable & SS.

Then we can add FRAUD charges to their immigration charges.

Hard to prove SS card and number is bogus. And way harder to prove employer knowingly hired an illegal. IRS is just happy for any money they get and won't tell you you just hired an invalid number after I9 submission.

 

[Jaskalas]

I don?t agree with it, or want it, but the ultimate solution to this Immigration problem is that we allow all of them in, allow them to stay (we're already doing those two) and then treat them the same as anyone else. Eventually they will break down any wealth this country has and we'll be in such great poverty that we'll be fleeing like rats to more prosperous countries. You all want to live in China don't you?

I don?t believe there are enough Americans on my side who care about the preservation of our country. We would have already taken strong sounding actions against the invaders, but instead we play pacifists against a rising tide of world poverty flowing into our country. If anyone out there cares, they sure haven?t let themselves be known through action.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: ironwing


So, luck of the draw, eh? Other than being born here, undocumented workers do all the things you listed, except obey the law concerning immigration status because WE WON'T LET THEM; get it? The only thing blocking illegal immigrants and legal status is bad law and bad policy. Fix the law and all those "illegals" become legal and go on with their work growing food for Americans, cleaning American houses, building American houses, and generally doing for Americans as they have been doing, only they would have legal status. Oh, and their employers would start having to pay the taxes they've been stealing from the rest of us. A win-win situation compared to the current situation.

Why don't we just "fix" all the laws then? Make EVERYTHING legal. Murder -- legal. Rape -- legal. Robbery -- legal. Embezzlement -- legal. Child abuse -- legal. Assault -- legal. Torture -- legal (oops! that one is already legal according to bush).

What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand. Don't you realize that a nation that can't control its borders is DOOMED? Don't you realize that giving anyone who can violate our borders and our laws amnesty or legal status will cause MILLIONS MORE to come here? Don't you realize that societies without border control and laws face anarchy?

Your ridiculous prescription to "fix" the ILLEGAL immigration problem is a recipe for disaster. I can't believe you're suggesting such nonsense seriously. It's a parody, right? Like Stephen Colbert, right? Just joking, right?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Zebo
aplogist- I think many americans, unlike BBOND, understand both sides of the issue which is why you don't see protests and the will to enforce immigration laws. It's not being an apologist, it's more like it does'nt mean anything to my life on any scale to have a bunch of illegals here vs. it means a lot for an illegal to be here. Makes the difference between starving on the mexican streets and victim to thier mob goverment to at least having a future and a wage.

On the fence.

The United States had a revolution to get rid of our oppresive government. Why can't Mexico? The United States is basically the Mexican government's welfare system... they transfer all their poor here so they don't have to worry about jobs, housing, etc.

And these illegals do work hard, most of them. It would be just swell if they would work so hard at fixing Mexico.

Because in Mexico the fourteen familes who control it will put you in a shallow grave if you start talking about socialistic measures like "homstead act", "equal lending practices" and "progressive taxation"

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
I don?t agree with it, or want it, but the ultimate solution to this Immigration problem is that we allow all of them in, allow them to stay (we're already doing those two) and then treat them the same as anyone else. Eventually they will break down any wealth this country has and we'll be in such great poverty that we'll be fleeing like rats to more prosperous countries. You all want to live in China don't you?

I don?t believe there are enough Americans on my side who care about the preservation of our country. We would have already taken strong sounding actions against the invaders, but instead we play pacifists against a rising tide of world poverty flowing into our country. If anyone out there cares, they sure haven?t let themselves be known through action.

It's not unique to America, That's just something all rich countries are dealing with now.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Zebo
aplogist- I think many americans, unlike BBOND, understand both sides of the issue which is why you don't see protests and the will to enforce immigration laws. It's not being an apologist, it's more like it does'nt mean anything to my life on any scale to have a bunch of illegals here vs. it means a lot for an illegal to be here. Makes the difference between starving on the mexican streets and victim to thier mob goverment to at least having a future and a wage.

On the fence.

The United States had a revolution to get rid of our oppresive government. Why can't Mexico? The United States is basically the Mexican government's welfare system... they transfer all their poor here so they don't have to worry about jobs, housing, etc.

And these illegals do work hard, most of them. It would be just swell if they would work so hard at fixing Mexico.

Because in Mexico the fourteen familes who control it will put you in a shallow grave if you start talking about socialistic measures like "homstead act", "equal lending practices" and "progressive taxation"

That's Mexico's problem. With our own junta in power we have enough problems of our own. Let Mexicans, Guatemalans, Ecuadorians, and anyone else who has problems (that would be the entire planet, BTW) fix their own. Why should America allow them to ILLEGALLY immigrate their problems on us?

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Zebo
aplogist- I think many americans, unlike BBOND, understand both sides of the issue which is why you don't see protests and the will to enforce immigration laws. It's not being an apologist, it's more like it does'nt mean anything to my life on any scale to have a bunch of illegals here vs. it means a lot for an illegal to be here. Makes the difference between starving on the mexican streets and victim to thier mob goverment to at least having a future and a wage.

On the fence.

The United States had a revolution to get rid of our oppresive government. Why can't Mexico? The United States is basically the Mexican government's welfare system... they transfer all their poor here so they don't have to worry about jobs, housing, etc.

And these illegals do work hard, most of them. It would be just swell if they would work so hard at fixing Mexico.

Because in Mexico the fourteen familes who control it will put you in a shallow grave if you start talking about socialistic measures like "homstead act", "equal lending practices" and "progressive taxation"

If the 12-20 million illegals marched on Mexico City, it would be hard to bury them all. Its theirs for the taking, but we make it much to easy for Vicente Fox...

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Zebo
aplogist- I think many americans, unlike BBOND, understand both sides of the issue which is why you don't see protests and the will to enforce immigration laws. It's not being an apologist, it's more like it does'nt mean anything to my life on any scale to have a bunch of illegals here vs. it means a lot for an illegal to be here. Makes the difference between starving on the mexican streets and victim to thier mob goverment to at least having a future and a wage.

On the fence.

The United States had a revolution to get rid of our oppresive government. Why can't Mexico? The United States is basically the Mexican government's welfare system... they transfer all their poor here so they don't have to worry about jobs, housing, etc.

And these illegals do work hard, most of them. It would be just swell if they would work so hard at fixing Mexico.

Because in Mexico the fourteen familes who control it will put you in a shallow grave if you start talking about socialistic measures like "homstead act", "equal lending practices" and "progressive taxation"

If the 12-20 million illegals marched on Mexico City, it would be hard to bury them all. Its theirs for the taking, but we make it much to easy for Vicente Fox...

Cortez took all of South America with 250 men. When you got the guns you make the rules and Mexico's elite, mainly spanish, which has the guns and guns on payroll has controlled their nation with an iron fist to this day and would'nt hesitate to squash rebellion.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: ironwing


So, luck of the draw, eh? Other than being born here, undocumented workers do all the things you listed, except obey the law concerning immigration status because WE WON'T LET THEM; get it? The only thing blocking illegal immigrants and legal status is bad law and bad policy. Fix the law and all those "illegals" become legal and go on with their work growing food for Americans, cleaning American houses, building American houses, and generally doing for Americans as they have been doing, only they would have legal status. Oh, and their employers would start having to pay the taxes they've been stealing from the rest of us. A win-win situation compared to the current situation.

Why don't we just "fix" all the laws then? Make EVERYTHING legal. Murder -- legal. Rape -- legal. Robbery -- legal. Embezzlement -- legal. Child abuse -- legal. Assault -- legal. Torture -- legal (oops! that one is already legal according to bush).

What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand. Don't you realize that a nation that can't control its borders is DOOMED? Don't you realize that giving anyone who can violate our borders and our laws amnesty or legal status will cause MILLIONS MORE to come here? Don't you realize that societies without border control and laws face anarchy?

Your ridiculous prescription to "fix" the ILLEGAL immigration problem is a recipe for disaster. I can't believe you're suggesting such nonsense seriously. It's a parody, right? Like Stephen Colbert, right? Just joking, right?

What is your solution? There are several million folks living and working here that you apparantly want to see gone. How do you propose to accomplish this? Each is entitled to due process. These several millions have children who are U.S. citizens. How do you propose to deal with these children? My plan solves the problem. Let's see your plan.