One downside of Intel canning BCLK OC on SKL

[ShintaiDK]

Wait, what happened to BLCK overclocking? I've been under a rock the past month or two.

You didn't meet it coming in under the rock while you where coming out?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

One poster suggested a $275 Intel chip.

One.

That is correct, and I addressed that specifically, as it was the most ridiculous response. One not a single member of "the collective" called them on. Now, did you have another point? Because members engaged in the other behaviors I mentioned as well. You are a smart guy, you do not need me to quote them for you.

 

[Denithor]

I sometimes do light duty builds for others too. How many components for the build can you buy for almost $300? Thanks to MS letting me recycle their old OEM PC or notebook win 7 keys into win 10 on the new build, I seldom have to budget OS cost. I get a good bit of the build done for 3 bills right now. $275 CPU to use iGPU? And in a thread about budget constrained builds at that. :biggrin:

This is what I do most often recently. Buy a Dell off eBay. Install any missing parts (typically HDD or SSD depending on budget, maybe increase RAM a bit). Install the OEM OS, upgrade to 10, done.

Set up a very nice Vostro with i3/4GB/120GB SSD/W10 for my mom for Christmas for under $150 total. Have done several Inspiron builds with i5/8GB/PSU/GPU for like $250-300, solid gaming builds, awesome performance for less than the cost of an XBO (far higher performance).

 

[DAPUNISHER]

This is what I do most often recently. Buy a Dell off eBay. Install any missing parts (typically HDD or SSD depending on budget, maybe increase RAM a bit). Install the OEM OS, upgrade to 10, done.

Set up a very nice Vostro with i3/4GB/120GB SSD/W10 for my mom for Christmas for under $150 total. Have done several Inspiron builds with i5/8GB/PSU/GPU for like $250-300, solid gaming builds, awesome performance for less than the cost of an XBO (far higher performance).

I have had a hard time not pulling the trigger on some of the refurb hot deals I see around the web. Any particular line or model you are familiar with, that I should avoid due to poor mainboard expansion slots or the like? Thanks for any info.

 

[LTC8K6]

That is correct, and I addressed that specifically, as it was the most ridiculous response. One not a single member of "the collective" called them on. Now, did you have another point? Because members engaged in the other behaviors I mentioned as well. You are a smart guy, you do not need me to quote them for you.

It was obviously a foolish recommendation. Responding to it the way you did is the wrong response, imo. It just brings on more.

It didn't really need to be countered by anyone, except maybe the person it was addressed to, imo.

I don't think it was the opinion of any "collective" that a $275 chip was suitable for a budget build. It's just silliness from one poster that deserved to be ignored.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Love how the ADF attacks the quantity of your posts but not the content. The points you bring up are absolutely spot on.

I just feel sorry for VirtualLarry's "clients" that will be saddled with sub-par products over this.

Not really. If they do have a particular brand preference, or they're willing to pay more for an Intel chip, I won't stop them.

But when it comes to the customers that want a system, and they have a hard cap on price, and want the most "bang for buck", it could have come down to an overclockable budget Intel CPU, or an overclockable budget AMD APU. Since Intel is killing their budget OC lineup off, that only leaves the alternative. Pretty simple, really.

Intel could have cleaned up in the budget market, and really put the screws to AMD, if they let the non-K SKL OC proliferate.

And for those saying that using non-K OC would require a GPU - Intel IGPs and especially their drivers suck so bad, I put in a dGPU by default anyways.

Edit: (to add) Not to mention, many of my clients have monitors connected via an analog VGA connection, so they need a VGA output, and most SKL mobos have dropped VGA support (as Intel no longer officially supports VGA on SKL).

As long as Intel keeps making the G3258 CPUs, then I might still use those, at least you can use the IGP on those while OC, and it supports VGA, and price is reasonable if you can get them in a CPU + mobo combo, but it can be tricky, as Intel tried to put a lid on that too.

 

[escrow4]

VGA is going the way of the dodo. Its obsolete. AMDs CPUs are rubbish. You may as well up the budget, buy a locked i5 6500 and forget about any slowness issues. If you explained to your customers what an i5 would do and how long it would last compared to a poky APU they would find the extra $150 over some random K APU. OC doesn't make any sense for a long lasting budget box. Slap a better CPU in there instead. And overclocking a dual core like its 2005 and Doom 3 to squeeze some extra performance out is pointless.

 

[iiiankiii]

For low budget, AMD APUs are great. You get better graphics that are able to play some games. As for overclocking other people's PC, heck no. The amount of instability that can happen on an overclock system (especially cheap ones w/ cheap PSU/MOBO) is too much. I would only do it on my own system because I can fix the issue on the spot. Plus, overclocking takes time to find the right settings. Time is money.

Focus on stability. In my mind, you should make room for an SSD in all of your client's budget. They'll notice more from that than any OC.

I also agree with some here regarding buying OEM (Dell, lenovo, HP, etc.) and debloat it with a clean stock OS and an SSD. Often times, it's a lot cheaper OEM system to rebuild.

 

[LTC8K6]

A VGA adapter is under $5 if they insist on a VGA output.

 

[hhhd1]

From my perspective, at this point there's very little reason to OC a processor. Unlocked Skylake chips are already near max performance,

Add to that iGPU performance

"I overclocked your system so the CPU is 10-50% percent faster, which you may or may not ever notice, and which will likely cause random crashes 2-3 years down the line when the PSU voltages start to sag and the layers of dust cause heat retention*... but then I'll look at it and offer to sell you another low end overclocked system!" is not a good way to do business.

* I swear to god you've complained about EXACTLY this thing happening before; I don't _think_ I'm pulling this out of my hind-end.

That is a very good point,
you shouldn't (IMO) give an OC'ed machine to someone who doesn't understand what is OC'ing.

And for those saying that using non-K OC would require a GPU - Intel IGPs and especially their drivers suck so bad, I put in a dGPU by default anyways.

Edit: (to add) Not to mention, many of my clients have monitors connected via an analog VGA connection, so they need a VGA output, and most SKL mobos have dropped VGA support (as Intel no longer officially supports VGA on SKL).

drivers issues are likely to resolve in few months, that have happened all the time, and for many people those are bugs are not that huge anyway.

IGPs performance per watt, specially for skylake, is far superior than anything else, and it is a shame to ignore in a 'budget build'

a VGA adapter costs less than $10.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

It was obviously a foolish recommendation. Responding to it the way you did is the wrong response, imo. It just brings on more.

It didn't really need to be countered by anyone, except maybe the person it was addressed to, imo.

I don't think it was the opinion of any "collective" that a $275 chip was suitable for a budget build. It's just silliness from one poster that deserved to be ignored.

This is the part where I tell you I will take it under advisement. Have a nice evening.

 

[cbn]

If Intel is going to block SkyOC at least they should silently release X79 to some of their low budget OEM partners (example; ECS or BioStar).

E5 2670 is down to $63 (or best offer) shipped for ebay "buy it now" listings.

These former open compute server processors could be repurposed as PCs on the cheap while serving as a pipe cleaner for the Cannonlake 8C/T16 and Zen 8C/T16 mainstream CPUs.

PCs > consoles.

 

[Arachnotronic]

If Intel is going to block SkyOC at least they should silently release X79 to some of their low budget OEM partners (example; ECS or BioStar).

E5 2670 is down to $63 (or best offer) shipped for ebay "buy it now" listings.

These former open compute server processors could be repurposed as PCs on the cheap while serving as a pipe cleaner for the Cannonlake 8C/T16 and Zen 8C/T16 mainstream CPUs.

PCs > consoles.

Intel has no reason to encourage sale of used processors for which it will not recognize revenue.

 

[cbn]

Intel has no reason to encourage sale of used processors for which it will not recognize revenue.

Intel would make revenue via the sale of x79 chipsets.

In fact, I bet a chipset like that makes them more money than a processor like Braswell (SoC),

 

[VirtualLarry]

VGA is going the way of the dodo. Its obsolete. AMDs CPUs are rubbish. You may as well up the budget, buy a locked i5 6500 and forget about any slowness issues. If you explained to your customers what an i5 would do and how long it would last compared to a poky APU they would find the extra $150 over some random K APU. OC doesn't make any sense for a long lasting budget box. Slap a better CPU in there instead. And overclocking a dual core like its 2005 and Doom 3 to squeeze some extra performance out is pointless.

What happened to your budget CPU love, for what is essentially a "Facebook box"?

And for those questioning my judgement on OCing budget rigs for people, I do always explain the downsides, and I don't clock them to "the max".

I sold a friend a Q6600, that was clocked to "the max", 3.6Ghz. It ran fine for me, rock solid actually. But when he got it, he put it in a closed cabinet, and it essentially cooked itself. I fixed it for him, replaced the PSU, and re-clocked it to something more reasonable and stable, like 3.2-3.3Ghz.

For an E5200, I would probably clock it from 2.5 to 3.0, on near stock voltage, but not higher.

For a G3258, depending on mobo and it's limit, I might only clock it from 3.2 to 3.6Ghz. Still, free performance is free performance.

Edit: Oh, and if I could convince people like that to part with some of their precious casino money to spend it on a higher-tier CPU, I would, but... what do you say to a Facebook user? "Once you get malware, this here i5 will slow down your PC less..."?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Intel has no reason to encourage sale of used processors for which it will not recognize revenue.

Building brand recognition, increasing market share? No? Goodwill towards the enthusiast community? (Something Intel needs really badly, right now, after they done F'd up and killed BCLK OC.)

 

[crashtech]

VGA is going the way of the dodo. Its obsolete.

Sure, but he's right about customers having VGA connected monitors, They're very common still, and I will go out of my way to spec mobos with VGA, DVI, and HDMI if not otherwise specified, just to save the hassle, since most people have no idea anyway.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Sure, but he's right about customers having VGA connected monitors, They're very common still, and I will go out of my way to spec mobos with VGA, DVI, and HDMI if not otherwise specified, just to save the hassle, since most people have no idea anyway.

Yes, and when you can get working VGA flat-screen monitors from the local electronics recycler for under $30, whereas a decent new one costs upwards of $80-100, VGA is going to stick around in budget circles for a long, long time.

These are the types of budget users I cater to. These types don't have the money for a SKL i5, sorry. They are not enthusiasts.

 

[cbn]

Building brand recognition, increasing market share? No? Goodwill towards the enthusiast community? (Something Intel needs really badly, right now, after they done F'd up and killed BCLK OC.)

Yes, and it is a better way to race to the bottom (in some cases) than cheap processors like Braswell or maybe even Core based Celeron/Pentium.

And maybe in some cases by having a E5 2670 the user may actually decide to convert into an PC enthusiast.

 

[iiiankiii]

Yes, and when you can get working VGA flat-screen monitors from the local electronics recycler for under $30, whereas a decent new one costs upwards of $80-100, VGA is going to stick around in budget circles for a long, long time.

These are the types of budget users I cater to. These types don't have the money for a SKL i5, sorry. They are not enthusiasts.

How much do you normally sell these low end systems? Just curious.

 

[VirtualLarry]

How much do you normally sell these low end systems? Just curious.

I make less than $50 on them, generally.

 

[bystander36]

It makes perfect economic sense. Bigger GPU takes up silicon real-estate, adding cost. Intel wants to be paid for that additional cost/value that it's bringing w/ the bigger iGPU.

Economics, nothing more.

I thought the only reason Iris Pro came about was because Apple demanded a better IGP from them.

 

[bystander36]

Yeah, you're totally wrong on this:
http://worldsmostethicalcompanies.ethisphere.com/honorees/

It's a good business model to be ethical and environmentally responsible.

Interestingly, Intel and MS were on the most ethical list. I know many people here disagree vehemently.

 

[Vortex6700]

Utter BS. I assume you are simply misinformed since you claim it. Or just dont understand how a company works.

There is no such thing as an ethical company. AMD, VIA, IBM, ARM etc are all equally "evil".

No.

IBM circa 1970 and Intel now are classified as trusts. Trusts are large companies that attempt to gain monopolistic powers. VIA never paid oems billions to not buy a better part.


The reason intel has a better product is because they got the engineers. The reason they got the engineers was because they sued all but two of thier competition out of the market, and when one of those two made a better product, they paid thier customers not to buy it.

This is not something that happens with every company and it is extremely illegal and detrimental to the market.

You should read before blindly repping a company.

Edit: AMD BOD could very well have done this damage on thier own, but they didn't.

 

[hhhd1]

For an E5200, I would probably clock it from 2.5 to 3.0, on near stock voltage, but not higher.

For a G3258, depending on mobo and it's limit, I might only clock it from 3.2 to 3.6Ghz. Still, free performance is free performance.

Ok, free performance is not bad, as long as the overclock doesn't drive power or heat up more than within acceptable ranges.

in your example, overclocking a G3258 is not bad at all, because you are not going to do more heat/power than some i3's in the same generations.