Once in a while you run into a thesis that hits the nail on the head....

[werepossum]

A lot accusations in the article, but hardly any specific examples. The truth is the country is sold out either way you look at it. The republicans are sold out to big business and the democrats are sold out to big government. Which is worse? Does anyone really know? So truth is neither is completely evil, but neither in itself is in the best interest of the country by itself. In the end they work for themselves first and if they help anyone along the way then so be it.

Until we stop electing career politicians, nothing for this country will change.

Amen, brother. Anything really big is dangerous, whether government or private sector. No one's boat was ever sunk by a pod of mackerel, ey? But our biggest problem is not the left or the right, but rather our professional mandarin class that soon loses all touch with their constituents.

 

[Steeplerot]

Until we stop electing career politicians, nothing for this country will change.

Money out of politics (I would add news also) is the key.

This

 

[shira]

Your statement was not supported by your links. You are simply pretending it does so you can continue to walk into the darkness wherein Moonbeam lives.

We both know I can post link after link to some liberals divorcing themselves from logic in their statements, but that would not support a blanket statement that liberals do this. We both know this, so why do you pretend not to know?

You're incorrect. The links I provided clearly demonstrate that the consensus of economists agree that the stimulus was very effective. Countless right-wing talking points made in countless threads on ATPN demonstrate that conservatives believe that the stimulus was worthless, despite clear evidence to the contrary.

Your alleged ability to prove something about "some liberals divorcing themselves from the logic of their statements" is irrelevant to your earlier post, since that post was about ME specifically, not "some liberals":

Wow, that is a good bit of dogma which is divorced from objective measures of reality. You must consider yourself to be part of the right.

Your earlier post was a lie on its face. And your current post is utterly irrelevant as support for your earlier post.

Once again you're all tangled up in your intellectual dishonesty.

 

[shira]

The stimulus was the equivalent of remodeling a house whose foundation is eroding and eventually will sink into the abyss.

Using a vivid analogy doesn't make your analogy correct. Furthermore, the implication of your analogy is that the budget proposals of the right - more tax cuts that will overwhelming benefit the wealthy combined with austerity that will overwhelmingly hurt the poor and middle classes - amounts to a "new foundation" that will cause the U.S. economy to ride high on the waves.

Provide us with links to the consensus of economists that agree that this austere "new foundation" will save the U.S. economy. Stop spouting dogma and start supporting your claims with facts, or at least scholarly analyses. Like Cybrsage, your dependence on baseless claims just proves the OP's point.

 

[Matt1970]

You're incorrect. The links I provided clearly demonstrate that the consensus of economists agree that the stimulus was very effective.

I wouldn't go claiming the stimulus a glowing victory. Sure it helped, you can't throw that kind of money at a problem and not have it have some kind of impact, but it didn't even come close to it's mark. Some of those same economists claiming it a victory are the same ones claiming it would keep us under 8% employment. I know, blah blah blah things were worse than they imagined. Well ya know, it's their job to image those things. Especially if they are going to be the ones quoted on how bad things are going to get.

It didn't help having Obama leading the charge in class warfare, threatening to raise taxes and businesses are still afraid to invest and expand with Obamacare lurking in the shadows. That sure doesn't spur investor confidence much. And I am sure all the Obama supporters will diagree.

From that article.

Earlier this month, Zandi and co-author Alan Blinder, former vice chairman of the Federal Reserve, released the most detailed assessment of the government's efforts to combat the so-called Great Recession. Neither economist is regarded as a partisan firebrand. Zandi, for example, backed John McCain in the 2008 presidential campaign and has advised members of both parties.

Their conclusion: The fiscal stimulus created 2.7 million jobs and added $460 billion to gross domestic product. Unemployment would be 11% today if the stimulus hadn't been passed and 16.5% if neither the fiscal stimulus nor the banks' rescue had been enacted, according to Zandi and Blinder. "It's pretty hard to deny that it had a measurable impact," Zandi said.

If the stimulus was sold as only dropping unemployment from 11% to 9.6% at the time of that article do you think it would have got approval it did at the time?

The University of Chicago's Graduate School of Business, the Initiative on Global Markets launched a forum to poll economists on some of the biggest issues in economic policy.
Only 46% came to the conclusion the stimulus was worth the money we paid. It's in this article.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/07/23/how_republicans_sabotaged_the_recovery?page=0,1

10% said it didn't even lower the unemployment rate.

 

[cybrsage]

You're incorrect.

The links I provided clearly demonstrate that the consensus of economists agree that the stimulus was very effective. Countless right-wing talking points made in countless threads on ATPN demonstrate that conservatives believe that the stimulus was worthless, despite clear evidence to the contrary.

Very effective in raising the deficit, sure. I did not realize that was what you were arguing. My bad.

Your alleged ability to prove something about "some liberals divorcing themselves from the logic of their statements" is irrelevant to your earlier post, since that post was about ME specifically, not "some liberals":

The right seems to be incapable of seeing that their view of the world increasingly depends on a dogma divorced from objective measures of reality.

This is a worthless piece of dogma divorced from objective measures of reality.

Your earlier post was a lie on its face. And your current post is utterly irrelevant as support for your earlier post.

Nope.

Once again you're all tangled up in your intellectual dishonesty.

Nope.