Once in a while you run into a thesis that hits the nail on the head....

[cybrsage]

My previous post and Cybrsage's response here provides a perfect contrast between the left- and right-wing perceptions of reality.

I make a statement, and then provide links to reputable sources supporting my statement. That's called "fact-based reality."

Cybrsage makes a statement and then offers nothing to support his position. In fact, Cybrsage's statement is nonsensical on it's face, since he labels as "dogma" a fact-based statement.

Thanks, Cybrsage. Your post is a clear-cut example supporting Moonie's point.

Your statement was not supported by your links. You are simply pretending it does so you can continue to walk into the darkness wherein Moonbeam lives.

We both know I can post link after link to some liberals divorcing themselves from logic in their statements, but that would not support a blanket statement that liberals do this. We both know this, so why do you pretend not to know?

 

[cybrsage]

Well my point was that what would be clear-cut to you or me would be incomprehensible to somebody like cybrsage because he exhibits the very disability described by the notion of non-reality based thinking. Conservatives know the truth in their guts by a process called truthiness and do not really need their brains. Reality never enters the picture. The rest of the thinking world has to figure things our by using reason accompanied by the acquisition of knowledge. They lack the gift and have to actually do work to know anything. This is why you can never win an argument with fools. They simply have to vomit up some inanity that truthiness offers and every other fool like them will instantly agree. We don't live in a world where people are knowledgeable and have learned how to think.

Your self imposed darkness is making you think you see vomit - but how can one see anything while in a complete darkness? They cannot, but you refuse to accept that you are in darkness, so your disability causes you to create a fantasy world around you. In this world, you can "see" things, and it makes you feel good. You want to feel good, but are afraid to leave your self imposed darkness, for the thruth frightens you. If you would just realize the joy freedom from self imposed bondage brings, you would run as fast as you can out of your own darkness...but being in darkness, you simply cannot understand it.

I do not blame you, you were born this way. I am saddened by your desire, nay, your demand, to remain in darkness when you can hear people calling to you from outside it. Instead of joining them in the light of truth and understanding, you get angry and press your hands tightly against your ears, attempting to block them out. The truth will not be silenced, though, so instead you create thread after thread on an Internet forum about how horrible the people in the light are and how superior you are to them. You find others who are self blinded that agree with you, and together you find comfort in each other's misery. It is a false comfort, but it is a non-frightening one, so you readily accept it.

 

[Moonbeam]

This is a tactic I've seen used by conservatives; when called out on something, they respond to say that everyone is equally bad (whether or not that's actually the case).

I see folk on the left do this too and it's disgusting. It's a kind of deflection and denial, a refusal to be self critical and honest.

 

[Moonbeam]

Your self imposed darkness is making you think you see vomit - but how can one see anything while in a complete darkness? They cannot, but you refuse to accept that you are in darkness, so your disability causes you to create a fantasy world around you. In this world, you can "see" things, and it makes you feel good. You want to feel good, but are afraid to leave your self imposed darkness, for the thruth frightens you. If you would just realize the joy freedom from self imposed bondage brings, you would run as fast as you can out of your own darkness...but being in darkness, you simply cannot understand it.

I do not blame you, you were born this way. I am saddened by your desire, nay, your demand, to remain in darkness when you can hear people calling to you from outside it. Instead of joining them in the light of truth and understanding, you get angry and press your hands tightly against your ears, attempting to block them out. The truth will not be silenced, though, so instead you create thread after thread on an Internet forum about how horrible the people in the light are and how superior you are to them. You find others who are self blinded that agree with you, and together you find comfort in each other's misery. It is a false comfort, but it is a non-frightening one, so you readily accept it.

Did you have a gifted brother or sister that got all the attention?

 

[Icepick]

It still amazes me to see folks vote against their own best interests.

The facts are laid bare for all to see irt what the Repub agenda has been, especially over the last fifty years where the tax code has been corrupted heavily in favor of the financial elite, where deregulation in the name of higher and higher profit irregardless of harm is pursued with a vengeance, where weakening the government to strengthen the control the rich and powerful have over it and where the total elimination of the ever diminishing power the middle class have over its elected officials is a priority of the highest order for the party leaders.

Yet, I bear witness to the complete disregard many conservative middle class and poor folks exhibit to these debilitating forces that work against them. To my utter amazement, these same folks rail against how much money "big bloated government" is wasting on excessive spending while expressing concern over losing their gov't paid pensions, health care and SS benefits and gladly take any increases in benefits they can get.

This behavior expresses the sheer irony this situation creates wherein these folks possess the ideology and profit oriented goals of the rich, yet must rely on their government handouts to satisfy the tenets of said ideology and "profit" driven goals. To these folks, it's just fine and dandy to think that way. Again, simply amazing.

To top it all off, the rich and powerful rely on just this kind of blind faith and ignorance to keep on robbing from the poor and giving to the rich. They're laughing all the way to the bank and the victims are laughing right along with them.

But, hey, it's all good because the believers are devout and resolute to "their" cause, no matter what. Yikes!

It amazes me, too, that so many are willing to continually vote against their interests in regard to economics. They do this because they are not thinking critically about the positions that the GOP candidates take on these issues. They hear "no taxes" and believe that it means that their taxes will decrease and leave them with more spending money.

They also latch onto the main GOP talking points:
- God "The Dems are godless communists who wish to destroy Christianity. The Dems are pro-abortion and pro-contraception. Both are threats to the traditional family structure and are anti-Christian!"
- Guns "The Dems want to take ALL of your guns away. How dare they!"
- Gays "The Democrats support the right of homosexuals to marry each other. Again, a threat to the traditional family structure."

Additionally, anyone with a point of view that is alternate to that of the GOP is a socialist or communist. These are all simple talking points that Republican voters would rather latch onto since they don't have time or don't care to consider these critically. These are much simpler items to sell to voters than complex economic theory.

 

[Matt1970]

It amazes me, too, that so many are willing to continually vote against their interests in regard to economics. They do this because they are not thinking critically about the positions that the GOP candidates take on these issues. They hear "no taxes" and believe that it means that their taxes will decrease and leave them with more spending money.

Well that is where you are wrong. When the taxes have been cut for the upper class, they also got cut for the middle and lower class, but all you hear is "Tax cuts for the rich"

Additionally, anyone with a point of view that is alternate to that of the GOP is a socialist or communist. These are all simple talking points that Republican voters would rather latch onto since they don't have time or don't care to consider these critically. These are much simpler items to sell to voters than complex economic theory.

And the Dems are better? Question anything around here and all you get is a denouncing of your intelligence.

 

[Moonbeam]

Well that is where you are wrong. When the taxes have been cut for the upper class, they also got cut for the middle and lower class, but all you hear is "Tax cuts for the rich"



And the Dems are better? Question anything around here and all you get is a denouncing of your intelligence.

M: You must love being a moron. The democrats want to keep the tax cuts on lower brackets and raise them on the rich. That is what the Republicans are blocking and THAT is why the democratic claim is accurate. Just because you can't think doesn't mean that all of us are similarly stupid and that is why you see such denouncing of your intelligence. You are doubtless intelligent, but you don't use it or show us any.

 

[Matt1970]

M: You must love being a moron. The democrats want to keep the tax cuts on lower brackets and raise them on the rich. That is what the Republicans are blocking and THAT is why the democratic claim is accurate. Just because you can't think doesn't mean that all of us are similarly stupid and that is why you see such denouncing of your intelligence. You are doubtless intelligent, but you don't use it or show us any.

I bow to the king of morons. If it weren't for the Republicans you wouldn't have these low rates on the middle class.

And your typical responce is: Brain Defect, reading comprehension fail, moron, sheep, idiot.....

 

[cybrsage]

Did you have a gifted brother or sister that got all the attention?

My entire family is gifted. Thank you for publically complimenting all of my family. It is out of character for you as you are usually only insulting people.

 

[Steeplerot]

This is a tactic I've seen used by conservatives; when called out on something, they respond to say that everyone is equally bad (whether or not that's actually the case).

This is the only way a majority fall for the equivalency. It is a well calculated lie.

If you tell a group that the opposition is inherently out to get you, lie about them with a few isolated examples to "prove" your point, these folks know that NOTHING the opposition say can be a valid criticism. If you make the stakes higher by doing things against groups interests this shields folks from culpability and reinforces the cult brainwashing.

You then have religion telling them Liberals=satan's embodiment of humanism on Earth. (they are thus -anti-humanist/secular)

NOTHING logical from liberals is anywhere near as bad as end times or the percieved secret agenda, so they will swallow and defend bullshit to the end times (which never come of course, so the fat cats play the divide and conquer ratings game. ho ho ho!

 

[Bowfinger]

My entire family is gifted. ...

You do understand there's a difference between "gifted" and "special", right? Just curious.

 

[Moonbeam]

My entire family is gifted.

Thank you. It must have been very difficult to grow up in such a family with your poor gifts and explains why you grew up so envious and bitter. It was the opposite for me. I was always so far ahead of everybody I knew that I had to spend most of my time trying to help others understand. I had no need to protect my ego by learning to be a defensive asshole.

I apologize for taking so long to understand. I mistook you for a serious person because I am and had to reach deep into my experiences with others to identify your motivations as they are completely different from my own. I will offer you in future no response as your intention is always to take it out on the rest of us for feeling your the idiot in the family. This is, of course, something you could cure in therapy if you ever saw your need.

 

[cybrsage]

You do understand there's a difference between "gifted" and "special", right? Just curious.

This did make me laugh.

 

[cybrsage]

Thank you. It must have been very difficult to grow up in such a family with your poor gifts and explains why you grew up so envious and bitter. It was the opposite for me. I was always so far ahead of everybody I knew that I had to spend most of my time trying to help others understand. I had no need to protect my ego by learning to be a defensive asshole.

I see you still need to show us how bigotted and lost you are. My hope for you is that you eventually realize you are hiding in a darkness of your own creation and that you find your way to the light.

Your need to be a defense asshole, but project that need onto others, only serves to highlight this even more. When you finally realize that you were actually running the wrong direction, getting further and further behind, and stop lying to yourself about it, you will feel shame for your actions. Know that you will be welcome, there is no need for your shame to prevent you from leaving your self imposed prison.

 

[Greenman]

Another post by another inferior projecting his inferiority onto others. Nobody gives a shit, Greenman, that you feel like a pile of shit. Everybody else does too. There is nothing special about you other than your sensitivity. But you waste your time pretending to be anything else but a moron. It is only how you feel. Try to get a grip on your self so you can grow up. You act like a pile of shit because it's how you feel. I know that beyond that pile of shit is a real person who was destroyed as a child. I am on your side as a human being. I simply oppose the depths of your denial. Your pain fills you full of defensive armor and pride whereas with me, I died. You strive to shove your shit up my ass because you can't face it, but I already died from it. All you do is make me sad to see a wasted human being. Try to have some humility and come alive. Your incessant pissing into the wind just blows it back in your face.

It appears I hit a nerve there moonie. So much anger from such a simple statement, and all those insults as well. Do you feel better now that you've hurled all that rage at me? After you typed it all out did you walk away from the keyboard feeling like a real man? Or did you realize that all that hate you spewed at me was already inside of you?

I don't hate you moonie, I don't even dislike you a little bit, but you preach about self hate in one post, than spew vitriol in the next. You can't love yourself if you hate others.

For the record: I had a wonderful childhood. I grew up on a ranch and spent a great deal of my early years with a horse named Buddy. A creature as friendly and playful as he was noble. Every child should be granted such an upbringing.

 

[Moonbeam]

Greenman: It appears I hit a nerve there moonie.

M: Really, Greenman, I responded to your post because I seem to hit a nerve in you which you admit later in this post.

G: So much anger from such a simple statement, and all those insults as well. Do you feel better now that you've hurled all that rage at me? After you typed it all out did you walk away from the keyboard feeling like a real man? Or did you realize that all that hate you spewed at me was already inside of you?

M: You probably won't believe it but I haven't thought a thing about it since I posted. That is not meant to belittle you by implying you are too insignificant to remember, only that I had no such emotions invested.

G: I don't hate you moonie, I don't even dislike you a little bit, but you preach about self hate in one post, than spew vitriol in the next. You can't love yourself if you hate others.

M: Hehe, I know, I hate myself, but I know you do too. That is the sum total of it all.

G: For the record: I had a wonderful childhood. I grew up on a ranch and spent a great deal of my early years with a horse named Buddy. A creature as friendly and playful as he was noble. Every child should be granted such an upbringing.

M: Thank you for sharing that. I love the tenderness you express and your good wishes for others. I, myself grew up practically wild, out the door in the morning to play and back only to eat. I had a bike I rode for miles and miles into all sorts of dangerous and exciting places. The fact that you and I hate ourselves takes nothing good away. It's only an accident, I think, that I ever discovered this fact.

 

[cybrsage]

Ah, now we see the source of your self created darkness; it is self hate. Of all the wounds one can inflict upon oneself, hate of self is one of the worst.

 

[Greenman]

Ah, now we see the source of your self created darkness; it is self hate. Of all the wounds one can inflict upon oneself, hate of self is one of the worst.

And the most difficult to hide. The constant need to belittle others is very telling.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Didn't have the attention span to make it past the second paragraph?

"Now, more than ever, it's true that "nothing comes from nothing." Creating success for oneself is inseparable from individual actions and public policies that promote security, opportunity for growth of competencies, physical and mental well-being, and a sustainable environment for future generations. Success means contribution to all of those things."

Give me a break . Bill gates Steve Jobs types go only so far. Tycoons however that include in their virtues; deception theft and willful murder . These men embrace the power of life over death . These are the men who truely lead you guys and gals . I was born into this I have taken back everthing I have contributed to this madness. I just lucky I live were I am happy doing only as I please without being a man lawbreaker.

 

[Moonbeam]

And the most difficult to hide. The constant need to belittle others is very telling.

You have learned nothing. You hate yourself. You already feel belittled. This is why you can't see anything that mirrors your real condition as anything but an attack. You hide this fact from yourself but it isn't difficult to for some others to see it. Your self hate makes you need to feel belittled. But never mind, you are blinded by your defenses, infantile in your reactions like so many others. Because you feel belittled by your actual condition you can't get well. Such a waste.

 

[1prophet]

The right seems to be incapable of seeing that their view of the world increasingly depends on a dogma divorced from objective measures of reality.

For example, the right looks at the current state of the economy and insists that a weak economy "proves" that the "the stimulus" was a failure. Yet the strong consensus among economists is that the stimulus was very effective, and that the depth of the recession and the peak unemployment rate would have been far worse had no stimulus been enacted.

Just google it. You have to be pretty delusional to be unaware of what the consensus of economists is - not politicians playing politics. A couple of examples:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–2009_Keynesian_resurgence#Efficacy



http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2010-08-30-stimulus30_CV_N.htm



But what do the righties on ATPN believe? They consistently say the the stimulus was an utter failure. And if they really believe that, what does that say about their ability to separate ANY truth from the fiction of their dogma?

The stimulus was the equivalent of remodeling a house whose foundation is eroding and eventually will sink into the abyss.

 

[classy]

A lot accusations in the article, but hardly any specific examples. The truth is the country is sold out either way you look at it. The republicans are sold out to big business and the democrats are sold out to big government. Which is worse? Does anyone really know? So truth is neither is completely evil, but neither in itself is in the best interest of the country by itself. In the end they work for themselves first and if they help anyone along the way then so be it.

Until we stop electing career politicians, nothing for this country will change.

 

[Greenman]

You have learned nothing. You hate yourself. You already feel belittled. This is why you can't see anything that mirrors your real condition as anything but an attack. You hide this fact from yourself but it isn't difficult to for some others to see it. Your self hate makes you need to feel belittled. But never mind, you are blinded by your defenses, infantile in your reactions like so many others. Because you feel belittled by your actual condition you can't get well. Such a waste.

Now you're just babbling in an effort to mask your behavior. The "wise spiritual leader" routine has worn transparently thin. Your claim to some sort of emotional enlightenment is a lie. You hate conservatives because they challenge your convictions, you post an endless stream of foolish twisted trivia in an attempt to discredit them, then climb up on your "self hate" high horse when caught. Give it up moonie, we all know it's simply shield to avoid debating facts.

 

[Moonbeam]

Now you're just babbling in an effort to mask your behavior. The "wise spiritual leader" routine has worn transparently thin. Your claim to some sort of emotional enlightenment is a lie. You hate conservatives because they challenge your convictions, you post an endless stream of foolish twisted trivia in an attempt to discredit them, then climb up on your "self hate" high horse when caught. Give it up moonie, we all know it's simply shield to avoid debating facts.

Greenman, almost everything I post relates to the fact that you can't have wisdom if you egotistically assume that you already do. This will of course mean that you will not be able to detect the emotional enlightenment, your words, of anybody at a higher level than you are. My job is to see that in me and your job is to see that in you. I have been thinking about that for a very long time. Almost the first thing one notices is how competitive people are about this, how first off, they want to discredit people whom they think may be better off mentally than they are and to drag them back into the general pool of self hate everybody is in. I believe that if you have any real 'emotional development' yourself you would realize that the very first thing people who suffer from what, 'emotional backwardness"?' is that they suffer most from denial, that suffering is denial.

Folk who have adjusted to the sickness around them, folk who got some good things in life that helped them to survive other than as basket cases are some of the folk who get most riled up by challenge. Such folk don't like others messing with their successful delusions.

And if some visually more advanced person wanders by and says, Hey, the road you're on leads off a bridge they get even more upset.

So let me know if you see any such bridge.

----------

I would love to argue facts with you but I can't because what you call facts I call delusions. My emotional enlightenment tells me that's what we have to argue first.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

While many people subscribe to capitalism and an infallable institution that made this nation the greatest in the world it is, not unlike socialism and other forms of economical theory, almost completely controlled by a small minority who sit at the top of the pyramid. Their leadership is immensely important to how well it runs and what becomes of any nation working under that economic theory.


Creative capitalism is what we had in this country, to some extent, until about the 70's or 80's. Vulture capitalism is what we have seen instituted to a great extent since about the mid to late 90's.

It is time we get back to creative capitalism and make something that is sustainable. That is going to take much more responsible leadership.