Once again, a brave cop goes home tonight

[BoberFett]

I highly encourage Victorian Gray and the other race pimps in this thread to take a toy gun that looks exactly like the one in this case, go out in public and start waving it around and pointing it at people.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Are you serious?

No matter how many scary pictures you post it's still a toy gun (which happened to be in his pants, not his hand) when he was shot and killed).

1.7 seconds.

And your comments are still disgusting.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I highly encourage Victorian Gray and the other race pimps in this thread to take a toy gun that looks exactly like the one in this case, go out in public and start waving it around and pointing it at people.

Let us know how it goes.

Hey, asshole! Yeah, you over there, the one whining about race. Mind pointing out where I say anything about race?

And, one more time, 1.7 seconds from car racing in to first shot and the toy gun was not in his hand, it was in his pants.

 

[Linux23]

I highly encourage Victorian Gray and the other race pimps in this thread to take a toy gun that looks exactly like the one in this case, go out in public and start waving it around and pointing it at people.

Let us know how it goes.

Why don't you test that theory and report back. Oh also dress in all black and black face makeup, you know for effect.

 

[EOM]

Hey, asshole! Yeah, you over there, the one whining about race. Mind pointing out where I say anything about race?

And, one more time, 1.7 seconds from car racing in to first shot and the toy gun was not in his hand, it was in his pants.

I do agree they rolled up way to fast and shot him with no observation of the situation, but from the pictures I saw of the supposed "toy gun" he had, I'd take more than 2 seconds to identify it as a fake gun, and if he /were/ pointing it at people I can understand why he was shot.

Your assertion that it was in his pants and not held when he was shot is the first I've heard of it.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I do agree they rolled up way to fast and shot him with no observation of the situation, but from the pictures I saw of the supposed "toy gun" he had, I'd take more than 2 seconds to identify it as a fake gun, and if he /were/ pointing it at people I can understand why he was shot.

Your assertion that it was in his pants and not held when he was shot is the first I've heard of it.

The DA stated that Rice was shot as he was (supposedly) reaching for his (toy) gun at his waist. That is pretty close to what the officers originally reported.

It was also reported, back when the story originally broke, that the toy gun was found in his waistband as his body was on the ground.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

I do agree they rolled up way to fast and shot him with no observation of the situation, but from the pictures I saw of the supposed "toy gun" he had, I'd take more than 2 seconds to identify it as a fake gun, and if he /were/ pointing it at people I can understand why he was shot.

Your assertion that it was in his pants and not held when he was shot is the first I've heard of it.

Even if he was waving it around, why not just wait to see if it was real?

1) It's real, and he drops it. Good
2) It's fake, and you have time to see it it's fake. Good
3) It's fake, and he drops it. Good.
4) It's real, and he shoots at you.

Only in 1/4 scenarios do you even get shot at, and if you are behind cover, then you are more or less completely safe.

You would have to be such a giant pussy to just roll up and shoot first. Well that or a killer.

 

[Ackmed]

No matter how many scary pictures you post it's still a toy gun (which happened to be in his pants, not his hand) when he was shot and killed).

1.7 seconds.

And your comments are still disgusting.

It's not about posting scary pictures, its about facts. And fact is, the pic I posted was the exact gun he used next to the gun it was modeled afterwards. You cannot tell the difference. Yes the gun was in his pants, and he was reaching for it. The cops were told someone was in the park waiving it around. A witness said he was pointing it at people acting like he was "robbing" them.

The fact that you can't even admit that the gun looks real, and keep trying to downplay it by calling it a 'toy' and 'scary' is telling. It shots a projectile that can kill you, as I said in my last post. Your bias is clearly showing, and not worth anymore of my time. It is a terrible tragedy what happened. The boy was failed by several people, including his own poor judgment. The police and dispatcher should receive some sort of punishment, but a murder charge is not it.

 

[umbrella39]

Then stop with this culture of overcharging LEOs who have made mistakes that lead to the end of a life to avoid fair and just punishments. No punishment simply perpetuate the issue.

 

[Ackmed]

Then stop with this culture of overcharging LEOs who have made mistakes that lead to the end of a life to avoid fair and just punishments. No punishment simply perpetuate the issue.

Well it's not up to me, but I can agree with that. Charge them for what they did, or are accused of. Gaming the system on either side is bad. Cops who are guilty should receive punishment, and more severe than the normal citizen in my opinion. Because their position is supposed to be one of trust. We're supposed to trust them. They know the law better than most. If they abuse that power, then they should feel the wrath.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

I do agree they rolled up way to fast and shot him with no observation of the situation, but from the pictures I saw of the supposed "toy gun" he had, I'd take more than 2 seconds to identify it as a fake gun, and if he /were/ pointing it at people I can understand why he was shot.

Your assertion that it was in his pants and not held when he was shot is the first I've heard of it.

According to the police testimony and video, the police car windows were rolled up. So even if they shouted at him, he wouldn't hear anything until the cop opened the door and got out.

That means even less time for Tamir to be able to respond to any theoretical police commands.

The cops rolled up and executed him in under 2 seconds. Anyone in that position would be dead because of how the cops reacted. No one that was minding his/her own business would be able to escape getting murdered by the cops.

 

[EOM]

The DA stated that Rice was shot as he was (supposedly) reaching for his (toy) gun at his waist. That is pretty close to what the officers originally reported.

It was also reported, back when the story originally broke, that the toy gun was found in his waistband as his body was on the ground.

What is your hangup about emphasising that it's a toy gun? I hear about cops shooting kids for holding wii controllers, cell phones, etc. and think, man those are some stupid cops! this isn't one of those cases. (i think they killed him in cold blood but trying to take away the realistic looking TOY gun is an odd stance to take. ) we're not talking about a toy gun that we had as kids.

we're talking about toy guns that look just like REAL guns.

 

[Linux23]

I guess the main point is that instead of the cops stopping at a distance or even if they came in too hot could have backed the car up, assessed the situation and then act. The kid didn't even get a chance to comply even if orders were given by the cops. Hell no man would be able to comply in less than 2 seconds due to the ambush by these criminals.

If police are not required to think then why not just replace the lot of them with robots like ED-209? Much cheaper and since its a machine everyone gets dealt the same justice.

 

[bshole]

I highly encourage Victorian Gray and the other race pimps in this thread to take a toy gun that looks exactly like the one in this case, go out in public and start waving it around and pointing it at people.

Let us know how it goes.

While not elegantly phrased, your point is valid.

 

[CZroe]

According to the police testimony and video, the police car windows were rolled up. So even if they shouted at him, he wouldn't hear anything until the cop opened the door and got out.



That means even less time for Tamir to be able to respond to any theoretical police commands.



The cops rolled up and executed him in under 2 seconds. Anyone in that position would be dead because of how the cops reacted. No one that was minding his/her own business would be able to escape getting murdered by the cops.

No one who is minding their own business would typically have the cops called on them for pointing a gun in people's faces.

Now, if you wanted to get the cops called on you because you wanted to kill them or commit suicide by cop then that's EXACTLY the behavior you'd expect. It was a necessary and logical part of procedure that protects them from being easy prey for criminals. The cops had no choice. It wasn't a "pussy" move. Being a civil servant doesn't mean signing up for suicide or expecting them to put their lives in any more danger than is reasonable. Expecting them to face someone who they were told fit the M.O. of a cop killer/suicide by cop without being prepared to shoot first when said person reaches for what is intended to be recognized as a gun is unreasonable.

 

[Victorian Gray]

It's not about posting scary pictures, its about facts. And fact is, the pic I posted was the exact gun he used next to the gun it was modeled afterwards. You cannot tell the difference. Yes the gun was in his pants, and he was reaching for it. The cops were told someone was in the park waiving it around. A witness said he was pointing it at people acting like he was "robbing" them.

The fact that you can't even admit that the gun looks real, and keep trying to downplay it by calling it a 'toy' and 'scary' is telling. It shots a projectile that can kill you, as I said in my last post. Your bias is clearly showing, and not worth anymore of my time. It is a terrible tragedy what happened. The boy was failed by several people, including his own poor judgment. The police and dispatcher should receive some sort of punishment, but a murder charge is not it.

Bottom line is that you are trying to justify the shooting and killing of a 12 year old who was was shot and killed for playing with a fake/toy gun. Good for you.

 

[Victorian Gray]

What is your hangup about emphasising that it's a toy gun? I hear about cops shooting kids for holding wii controllers, cell phones, etc. and think, man those are some stupid cops! this isn't one of those cases. (i think they killed him in cold blood but trying to take away the realistic looking TOY gun is an odd stance to take. ) we're not talking about a toy gun that we had as kids.

we're talking about toy guns that look just like REAL guns.

Dance around all you want, the bottom line is, a 12 year old kid was shot and killed by police for playing. What a wonderful world we live in.

 

[CZroe]

Bottom line is that you are trying to justify the shooting and killing of a 12 year old who was was shot and killed for playing with a fake/toy gun. Good for you.

Liar. If that were true we'd have a lot more dead kids. You are the one "dancing around" the truth that this is about INAPPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR and BAD PARENTING/SUPERVISION as much as it is about police procedure. You just can't bring yourself to admit that.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Liar. If that were true we'd have a lot more dead kids. You are the one "dancing around" the truth that this is about INAPPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR and BAD PARENTING/SUPERVISION as much as it is about police procedure. You just can't bring yourself to admit that.

12 year old kid shot and killed within 1.7 seconds of police arrival. His crime? Playing.

 

[CZroe]

12 year old kid shot and killed within 1.7 seconds of police arrival. His crime? Playing.

Why are you assuming there needs to be a crime for shooting to be a reasonable/justified response to to a situation where someone was POINTING IT AT RANDOM PEOPLE SPECIFICALLY TO PROVOKE A RESPONSE with a toy that was specifically intended to look like a particular real-life weapon?!

It didn't happen in a vacuum for no other reason. You lied, you're a liar, you appear incapable of responding rationally without trying to evoke some kind of emotion from a misleading scenario, and why should we listen to anything else you have to say?!

What parent allows a kid to play like that unsupervised? What adult even gives a kid a toy like? Was it modified to remove the bright plastic these things are supposed to have? A LOT happened outside of those 1.7 seconds you are so hung up on.

You're a shameless instigator because you don't even realize it.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Why are you assuming there needs to be a crime for shooting to be a reasonable/justified response to to a situation where someone was POINTING IT AT RANDOM PEOPLE SPECIFICALLY TO PROVOKE A RESPONSE with a toy that was specifically intended to look like a particular real-life weapon?!

It didn't happen in a vacuum for no other reason. You lied, you're a liar, you appear incapable of responding rationally without trying to evoke some kind of emotion from a misleading scenario, and why should we listen to anything else you have to say?!

What parent allows a kid to play like that unsupervised? What adult even gives a kid a toy like? Was it modified to remove the bright plastic these things are supposed to have? A LOT happened outside of those 1.7 seconds you are so hung up on.

You're a shameless instigator because you don't even realize it.

It's amazing how many people seem to have so much invested in standing up for 'authority'. And you think that you are the 'rational' one. Sad...

And the bottom line is still an innocent 12 year old shot down by a police officer who never should have been a police officer. And then the 'system' adds insult to injury by tying itself into knots trying to protect the incompetent officer. Yay team!

 

[CZroe]

It's amazing how many people seem to have so much invested in standing up for 'authority'. And you think that you are the 'rational' one. Sad...

And the bottom line is still an innocent 12 year old shot down by a police officer who never should have been a police officer. And then the 'system' adds insult to injury by tying itself into knots trying to protect the incompetent officer. Yay team!

Lying again. It has nothing to do with "standing up for authority." Someone dropped the ball alright but you've convinced yourself that it was these officers without any consideration of the adult supervision and parenting role.

Admit it: you will never consider that. Now ask yourself: Why?

 

[OverVolt]

Hey, asshole! Yeah, you over there, the one whining about race. Mind pointing out where I say anything about race?

And, one more time, 1.7 seconds from car racing in to first shot and the toy gun was not in his hand, it was in his pants.

The police WILL use deadly force if you brandish a fake weapon at them. There is no way for them to tell the difference. Thats just how it is. You can still threaten someone with a gun tucked into your pants.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Nearly two years before he shot and killed a 12-year-old who had an air gun, Cleveland Police Officer Timothy Loehmann resigned from another police job after a supervisor described him as "distracted and weepy" and "emotionally immature."

Records from the Independence Police Department obtained by CNN include comments from a supervisor detailing what they called "a pattern of lack of maturity, indiscretion and not following instructions," a "dangerous loss of composure during live range training" and an "inability to manage personal stress."

"I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct these deficiencies," Independence Deputy Chief Jim Polak wrote in a November 2012 memo."
...
"Ptl. Loehmann's inability to perform basic functions as instructed, and his inability to emotionally function because of a personal situation at home with an on and off again girlfriend leads one to believe that he would not be able to substantially cope, or make good decisions, during or resulting from any other stressful situation," Polok wrote.

Another memo from a sergeant who worked with Loehmann at a shooting range described the officer as "distracted," "not fit to return" after an emotional outburst and someone who was "not following simple instructions."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/04/justice/cleveland-police-officer-timothy-loehmann/

Yeah, it was the kid's fault. Or, his parents fault. Or, the phase of the moon. Anybody but the fuckup who shot and killed the kid less than 2 seconds after his "gangbusters" arrival on the scene. Anybody but the clueless department that hired this fuckup in the 1st place. That same hiring that cost the jobs of 2 people involved in said hiring but not the job of the fuckup they hired.

this certainly sounds like a guy I'd want as a police officer:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/12/04/personnel-file-on-cleveland-police-officer.pdf

But hey, authority.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

The police WILL use deadly force if you brandish a fake weapon at them. There is no way for them to tell the difference. Thats just how it is.

NO. GUN. WAS. BRANDISHED. AT. COPS. Why did you even use this phrase?

I agree, the gun looked real. Very real. The cops would have been very wise to use an abundance of caution. Look at how the cops approached the car of the San Bernardino terrorists. There were like 100 cops, all with guns drawn, all behind cover, and they waited 30 minutes for specialized vehicles to show up so they could safely investigate the car they just shot up. What would be wrong with using a similar strategy of caution approaching this kid? Why roll up with no warning and guns blazing in under 2 seconds? This was a colossal fuckup and now a child is dead. It is right for people to think this act was wrong, bad, cowardly, and even criminal.

You can still threaten someone with a gun tucked into your pants.

If that someone who already has their gun pointed at you is a giant pussy, then yes, you can make that coward feel threatened by having a gun not even in your hands. I don't want those kind of people "protecting" myself and the community.