Once again, a brave cop goes home tonight

[Iron Woode]

Are you simply being deliberately obtuse?

There were apparently at least 2 pieces of pertinent information that were not passed on to the officers. 1) the caller had mentioned several times that the 'gun' might be fake and 2) that the person in question appeared to be a juvenile.

Are you telling me that you can't see how that information just might affect the manner in which the officers approached the scene?

The bottom line is that a 12 year old kid was killed for doing exactly what 12 year old kids have been doing since humans climbed out of the trees and it's interesting how little that seems to matter to more than a few folks here.

I am going to repeat what Police Officers are trained for:

take all incidents involving a gun as if its a real gun.

It is not an Officer's job to give any credence to your opinion on what may be a real or fake gun.

I know this is hard for some pot smoking lefties like you who can't grasp the simple truth:

obey what an Officer tells you.

He or She is not there for fresh air. An Officer is there on duty to enforce order. Anyone running around brandishing a gun or pulling out a gun when told to raise their hands up is risking their lives because Officers are trained to stay alive.

News flash: 12 year-olds shoot people too. It happens a lot in drug and gang infested areas.

You are probably one of those 'concerned citizens' who don't understand why Police shoot people who refuse to drop a knife. Look up Tueller Drill. And maybe you should learn how and why police Officers are trained the way they are and why they do what they do. This way you won't appear so ignorant about things.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I am going to repeat what Police Officers are trained for:

take all incidents involving a gun as if its a real gun.

It is not an Officer's job to give any credence to your opinion on what may be a real or fake gun.

I know this is hard for some pot smoking lefties like you who can't grasp the simple truth:

obey what an Officer tells you.

He or She is not there for fresh air. An Officer is there on duty to enforce order. Anyone running around brandishing a gun or pulling out a gun when told to raise their hands up is risking their lives because Officers are trained to stay alive.

News flash: 12 year-olds shoot people too. It happens a lot in drug and gang infested areas.

You are probably one of those 'concerned citizens' who don't understand why Police shoot people who refuse to drop a knife. Look up Tueller Drill. And maybe you should learn how and why police Officers are trained the way they are and why they do what they do. This way you won't appear so ignorant about things.

No matter how much you obfuscate, the bottom line is that a 12 year old kid was was shot and killed by a policeman for the crime of being a kid with a toy gun.

Almost forgot:

"obey what an Officer tells you. "

Don't move! Drop the gun!


oh yea, the "pot smoking lefty" is a nice touch. Does that mean you're a 'booze swilling righty'?

 

[The Merg]

I said it once, I'll say it again. Cops are just uneducated thugs with a license to kill. Make the requirement of being a cop 4 years university with a minimum GPA and 4 years at police school. Problem solved.

I know plenty of cops that have 4 year degrees and master's degrees as well. Plenty are also former military, which I would say provides life experience that most people will never have.

I'd like to see this 007 license that they get to carry around as well.

Nice try.

- Merg

 

[The Merg]

No matter how much you obfuscate, the bottom line is that a 12 year old kid was was shot and killed by a policeman for the crime of being a kid with a toy gun.

Almost forgot:

"obey what an Officer tells you. "

Don't move! Drop the gun!


oh yea, the "pot smoking lefty" is a nice touch. Does that mean you're a 'booze swilling righty'?

Yes, he was 12 and he had a toy gun, but this is not obfuscating... It looked identical to the real thing and when told to put his hands up he pulled the gun from his waistband.

No one on their right mind is going to wait to see when he pulls the trigger if it is a toy gun or not.

He wasn't shot just because he had a toy gun or because he was 12. He was shot because he pulled the gun on the cop when told to raise his hands.

- Merg

 

[Victorian Gray]

Yes, he was 12 and he had a toy gun, but this is not obfuscating... The looked identical to the real thing and when told to put his hands up he pulled the gun from his waistband.

No one on their right mind is going to wait to see when he pulls the trigger if it is a toy gun or not.

He wasn't shot just because he had a toy gun or because he was 12. He was shot because he pulled the gun on the cop when told to raise his hands.

- Merg

There was no gun.

 

[The Merg]

There was no gun.

He pulled a replica 1911 toy gun that looks exactly like a real 1911.

A toy gun is still a gun.

- Merg

 

[halik]

I feel shitty for both the cop and the family of the kid. It is my understanding that they don't shoot unless the gun is being pointed at them; which may or may not be the case here.

 

[The Merg]

I feel shitty for both the cop and the family of the kid. It is my understanding that they don't shoot unless the gun is being pointed at them; which may or may not be the case here.

They don't need to wait for the gun to be pointed at them. If they give commands to do one thing and the person pulls the gun out, they can shoot immediately. Waiting until the gun is pointed at them could very well be too late.

- Merg

 

[Victorian Gray]

He pulled a replica 1911 toy gun that looks exactly like a real 1911.

A toy gun is still a gun.

- Merg

I'll reword, there was no weapon.

 

[Victorian Gray]

They don't need to wait for the gun to be pointed at them. If they give commands to do one thing and the person pulls the gun out, they can shoot immediately. Waiting until the gun is pointed at them could very well be too late.

- Merg

Don't move! Drop the gun!

 

[Meghan54]

Dreadful situation. I'm sure the cop isn't chuckling about it. Deep sympathy for the family.

As an aside, what I've found disturbing in this is that there's NO database kept of persons killed by police. Huge database compiled yearly on police deaths of all causes, but nowhere can one find any nat'l. info on persons killed by police, or even within a particular state. Odd.

And another interesting fact....2013 was the safest year for police in the last decade with "only" 27 felonious deaths; the last decade has averaged 51 per year.

Also, the South once again reigned supreme in police deaths with 15, or 55.5% of the nat'l. total. Texas lead the region with 6. New England again was the safest region to be an officer...1 death last year, the region's average.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...n_geographic_division_and_state_2004-2013.xls

 

[zanejohnson]

I wish those stats were more detailed, i wonder how many are actually citizens killing cops and how many aren't just a cop crashing while chasing someone, and the citizen getting charged for it....

Because i don't think in my 29 years on this planet i've never heard of a LOCAL cop being killed by a citizen....dying driving there cop car 120mph, i hear about alot more often.

edit: here we go i found a more detailed breakdown of the last decade.

it looks like auto accidents and motercycle accidents claims about half of officers' deaths, the other half, gunshot.

Causes of Law Enforcement Deaths
Over the Past Decade (2004-2013)

CAUSE OF DEATH 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 Total
Aircraft Accidents 3 2 3 3 3 4 2 1 3 1 25
Auto Crashes 51 43 46 61 44 39 51 44 27 28 434
Beaten 0 0 1 0 1 0 2 2 2 0 8
Bicycle Accident 0 0 2 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 3
Boating Accident 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 3
Bomb-Related Incident 2 0 0 0 2 0 0 1 0 1 6
Drowned 3 4 0 4 1 0 3 4 0 2 21
Electrocuted 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 4
Fall 1 4 0 3 0 0 1 4 4 6 23
Horse-Related Accident 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1
Job-Related Illness 19 24 21 19 23 18 21 20 8 13 186
Motorcycle Crashes 10 5 11 10 9 3 6 5 7 4 70
Poisoned 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1
Shot 59 60 54 70 41 50 60 73 50 31 548
Stabbed 1 1 1 0 2 0 0 2 5 2 14
Strangled 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1
Struck by Falling Object 1 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 4
Struck by Train 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 4
Struck by Vehicle 13 16 16 14 18 11 13 10 14 11 136
Terrorist Attack 1 1 1 5 0 0 0 1 0 0 9
Total 165 163 156 191 147 125 161 171 122 100 1501
ADDITIONAL DATA 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 Total
Female Officers Killed 9 5 7 6 15 2 7 11 12 4 78
Alcohol-Related Deaths 26 15 17 25 15 9 22 14 15 6 164
Drug-Related Deaths 15 10 12 22 9 5 14 10 8 3 108
Officers Killed Wearing Body Armor 53% 55% 64% 71% 62% 65% 63% 63% 52% 50% 906


from: http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/causes.html

 

[OverVolt]

..

 

[The Merg]

I'll reword, there was no weapon.

So, you could tell in less than a second that the toy was not a real gun?

You do realize that you can be shot by the police for implying you have a weapon, right? If you rob someone and imply you have a gun and then the police stop you and you reach for your waist when they say raise your hands, they would be justified in that shooting. And yes, I know he didn't rob anyone, but he was scaring people with the gun and then pulled it out when told to raise his hands. At that moment, it is considered a weapon.

- Merg

 

[The Merg]

Don't move! Drop the gun!

That's not what was said here. The kid was told to raise his hands.

And that can be a valid command. If I'm holding the gun, that would mean to don't move and then you just drop the gun. The motion to drop the gun would be to simply open my hand. A cop is not going to have you grab the gun in order to drop it.

- Merg

 

[shira]

Did you just justify a point by referencing "The West Side Story"?

The movie, although obviously fiction, nevertheless portrayed a then-contemporary time and place and set of values. To put it another way, if West Side Story were remade today and set in 2014, the two gangs wouldn't be armed with knives and clubs.

 

[bshole]

So, you could tell in less than a second that the toy was not a real gun?

You do realize that you can be shot by the police for implying you have a weapon, right? If you rob someone and imply you have a gun and then the police stop you and you reach for your waist when they say raise your hands, they would be justified in that shooting. And yes, I know he didn't rob anyone, but he was scaring people with the gun and then pulled it out when told to raise his hands. At that moment, it is considered a weapon.

- Merg

Well if it was me, I would have realized that it WAS A FUCKING KID and acted accordingly. If the cop would have treated the kid like a kid, nothing would have happened. It should be MANDATORY that this cop lose his job. If a cop makes a mistake and person loses their life as a result, that cop has no business being a cop any longer. The thin blue line will ensure that this incompetent baboon gets to keep his job and overreact again in the future.

 

[shira]

Well if it was me, I would have realized that it WAS A FUCKING KID and acted accordingly. If the cop would have treated the kid like a kid, nothing would have happened. It should be MANDATORY that this cop lose his job. If a cop makes a mistake and person loses their life as a result, that cop has no business being a cop any longer. The thin blue line will ensure that this incompetent baboon gets to keep his job and overreact again in the future.

Plenty of FUCKING KIDS shoot and kill other people. If a cop makes a mistake in a "young man with gun" scenario and an innocent bystander or cop loses their life as a result, I'm guessing you're going to be the first in line to criticize that result, also.

 

[The Merg]

Well if it was me, I would have realized that it WAS A FUCKING KID and acted accordingly. If the cop would have treated the kid like a kid, nothing would have happened. It should be MANDATORY that this cop lose his job. If a cop makes a mistake and person loses their life as a result, that cop has no business being a cop any longer. The thin blue line will ensure that this incompetent baboon gets to keep his job and overreact again in the future.

The problem is that this kid wasn't acting like a kid. He was walking around pulling the gun out of his waistband, pointing it at people, and scaring them. He wasn't playing with other kids.

Plenty of FUCKING KIDS shoot and kill other people. If a cop makes a mistake in a "young man with gun" scenario and an innocent bystander or cop loses their life as a result, I'm guessing you're going to be the first in line to criticize that result, also.

No, he'd be happy that a pig cop lost their life.</s>

- Merg

 

[bshole]

The problem is that this kid wasn't acting like a kid. He was walking around pulling the gun out of his waistband, pointing it at people, and scaring them. He wasn't playing with other kids.


- Merg

Bottom line, just fire the cop. Just fire him. He isn't a very good at his job, I am sick of people on the right sticking up for mediocrity in the people we depend on most. If they can't do their job correctly without killing citizens, they need to find a new profession. People like you are the problem. You PREVENT America from removing the weeds from the police force. You do everything in your power to ensure that even the worst cops never lose their jobs.

 

[shira]

Bottom line, just fire the cop. Just fire him. He isn't a very good at his job, I am sick of people on the right sticking up for mediocrity in the people we depend on most. If they can't do their job correctly without killing citizens, they need to find a new profession. People like you are the problem. You PREVENT America from removing the weeds from the police force. You do everything in your power to ensure that even the worst cops never lose their jobs.

I'm someone on the pretty-far left, and I see this particular case far differently from you. I don't think you understand that there are some situations which aren't "solvable." Cops aren't psychic, and it's not reasonable to expect them to be. You seem to think that "erring on the side of caution" was obviously the right approach in this case, but you've provided no information - no guideline - to indicate what the cop could have done to differentiate this particular situation from others where "erring on the side of caution" would be negligent.

You seem to think that the cop "knew" that he was dealing with a 12-year-old with a fake gun. You seem incapable of seeing the situation from the cop's perspective, where what he actually saw was a male of indeterminate age with what appeared to be a real gun, and that male seemed to be reaching for the gun when ordered to raise his hands.

Please, tell us the proper SAFE protocol in these situations.

Merely pointing to a bad outcome doesn't mean that the cop did anything wrong.

 

[The Merg]

I'm someone on the pretty-far left, and I see this particular case far differently from you. I don't think you understand that there are some situations which aren't "solvable." Cops aren't psychic, and it's not reasonable to expect them to be. You seem to think that "erring on the side of caution" was obviously the right approach in this case, but you've provided no information - no guideline - to indicate what the cop could have done to differentiate this particular situation from others where "erring on the side of caution" would be negligent.



You seem to think that the cop "knew" that he was dealing with a 12-year-old with a fake gun. You seem incapable of seeing the situation from the cop's perspective, where what he actually saw was a male of indeterminate age with what appeared to be a real gun, and that male seemed to be reaching for the gun when ordered to raise his hands.



Please, tell us the proper SAFE protocol in these situations.

Thank you. That was very well said.

- Merg

 

[runzwithsizorz]

The problem is that this kid wasn't acting like a kid. He was walking around pulling the gun out of his waistband, pointing it at people, and scaring them. He wasn't playing with other kids.



No, he'd be happy that a pig cop lost their life.</s>

- Merg

Story says he went to the park with friends. Was the park empty? Were kids, and adults fleeing, or in panic? Was this at night? How large a kid was this? Cop was only 10 feet away, IMO the cop should not have lost cover, and gotten so close. He deprived himself, and the kid of a reasonable response time.

 

[bshole]

Jesus we have open carry incident on a monthly basis here in Wisconsin. I am totally amazed that the cops don't shoot them on the sight. Merg's contention is that if the cops see a person with a gun that is ALL they need to know before opening fire. Never mind that carrying a gun is LEGAL, if you have a weapon in your hand the cop is completely and utterly justified in shooting you to death. That is some pretty fucked up thinking right there.

 

[shira]

Jesus we have open carry incident on a monthly basis here in Wisconsin. I am totally amazed that the cops don't shoot them on the sight. Merg's contention is that if the cops see a person with a gun that is ALL they need to know before opening fire. Never mind that carrying a gun is LEGAL, if you have a weapon in your hand the cop is completely and utterly justified in shooting you to death. That is some pretty fucked up thinking right there.

I think you know that this isn't an honest argument. If a private citizen's handgun is securely holstered, a cop would have no justification to escalate the situation. But if the person were continually drawing the gun, pointing it at people, and then re-holstering it, I wouldn't be surprised if something bad happened.